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Stop with the Sky Falling predictions... This team has plenty of talent... what it needs is a coach who can use it

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  • *Buzzsaw* changed the title to Stop with the Sky Falling predictions... This team has plenty of talent... what it needs is a coach who can use it

Agreed if the boys were playing to there potential wed be scary especially with additions of garland and podz 

 

we need a systems change from offence to d 

do a clean sweep with the head coach start working now 

 

tbh benning put a strong team together outside of a couple pieces if only they were rolling 

 

coach and assistant has to go before benning as he doesnt effect anything on ice 

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20 minutes ago, Topcheeze86 said:

Agreed if the boys were playing to there potential wed be scary especially with additions of garland and podz 

 

we need a systems change from offence to d 

do a clean sweep with the head coach start working now 

 

tbh benning put a strong team together outside of a couple pieces if only they were rolling 

 

coach and assistant has to go before benning as he doesnt effect anything on ice 

So you think it’s more a systems issue than a roster issue? 

 

I think it’s both. Green definitely has to go at this point. I think he wants to go based off his actions tonight. 

 

 

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34 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

I don't disagree that we've got pieces in place or that management/coaching changes could help shift things going forward, but I wouldn't be surprised to see roster changes before the trade deadline expires. 

 

But that being said.. 

 

Michael Jackson Eating Popcorn GIFs - Get the best GIF on GIPHY

I’m with ya. Pass the popcorn, @Coconuts

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CONNOR BEDARD & MATVEI MICHKOV LOOK AWFULLY SMEXY IN THE 2023 DRAFT (wouldn't be opposed to rebuilding again aka just intentionally tank like BUF and trade off any assets especially Miller and Horvat) 

 

One problem with tanking method is.... Demko will ruin it. Hes too good haha. 

Edited by DontMessMe
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1 hour ago, Topcheeze86 said:

Agreed if the boys were playing to there potential wed be scary especially with additions of garland and podz 

 

we need a systems change from offence to d 

do a clean sweep with the head coach start working now 

 

tbh benning put a strong team together outside of a couple pieces if only they were rolling 

 

coach and assistant has to go before benning as he doesnt effect anything on ice 

Button puts the bulk of the blame on JB.  He talks of a poorly constructed blueline.  He says Green is trying to shelter them by playing more conservatively but it's hurting their offensive players.  He think they should go back to their previous approach and let their offensive players loose to play to their strength.  No use trying to win 1 goal games when the D-corps is just not good enough.  Might as well just open things up - Demko already has to save the day.  He believes there's just not much they can do after Benning has cornered the market on bottom pairing Ds. 

 

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7 hours ago, mll said:

Button puts the bulk of the blame on JB.  He talks of a poorly constructed blueline.  He says Green is trying to shelter them by playing more conservatively but it's hurting their offensive players.  He think they should go back to their previous approach and let their offensive players loose to play to their strength.  No use trying to win 1 goal games when the D-corps is just not good enough.  Might as well just open things up - Demko already has to save the day.  He believes there's just not much they can do after Benning has cornered the market on bottom pairing Ds. 

 

I don't agree with Button: on his take, on JB & the D; and the biggest issue, I have with JB in the offseason - was his re signing of Green.   Green has shown he has no idea, how to motivate/coach a bunch of millionaires to play together and outside of (his usual tactic of) benching a rookie to prove an indirect point to a struggling vet (that probably deserves to sit), he has nothing else cause all/most of his adjustments are on the personnel side, rather than, on his - meat grinder - of a system.  

 

At this point, any trade will be perceived, as an act of desperation, whilst the right move, is to fire a newly extended MEDIOCRE COACH.  I wonder if, JB will admit to the mistake and if, Aquaman will allow him ?

Edited by ShawnAntoski
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3 hours ago, King Heffy said:

It's impossible to accurately judge a roster when it's being actively sabotaged by coaching staff so bad that a random homeless guy on Hastings would be an upgrade.

Heffy i know your completely committed to this - but maybe instead have a little respect.   To the homeless especially. 

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2 hours ago, mll said:

Button puts the bulk of the blame on JB.  He talks of a poorly constructed blueline.  He says Green is trying to shelter them by playing more conservatively but it's hurting their offensive players.  He think they should go back to their previous approach and let their offensive players loose to play to their strength.  No use trying to win 1 goal games when the D-corps is just not good enough.  Might as well just open things up - Demko already has to save the day.  He believes there's just not much they can do after Benning has cornered the market on bottom pairing Ds. 

 

Green ... guys been coaching and also has GM experience as well since 2008.   He wasn't a special player but did play in a very tough era, and had a very decent NHL career.   Then he went back to his roots as an assistant coach/GM.   After years of that he eventually got his shot at the head coaching job and completely turned his team around and went on an epic run.   This didn't go unnoticed, and his hard work got him the Utica job.   Pretty much did the same thing with an underwhelming roster aside from Markstrom.   Point is he's not an "inexperienced coach"....or even and inexperienced NHL coach anymore.   And absolutely will get another job after this one.   I 100% agree this is mostly on JB.   Gadjovich isn't going to make us win a lot of these one goal losses this season .... that's on Green.   Travis Green wasn't just an early adopter but an actual pioneer on the idea of zone entries and exits.   I bet most on this site aren't even aware of this but have brought it up a few times.   Well before it was a "stat" that was factored in,  Travis and his staff would spend the time with pencils to record it.    Now it is a "thing". When he was hired JB and crew did their due diligence, and found out he was arguably the hardest working coach in the entire AHL.    Constantly trying to both improve his team but also looking for an edge.  

 

See so much vitriol on this site over Green.   He does make in game moves that sometimes work sometimes don't.  But as far as his credentials go - he's 100% put his time in and done it the right way, nothing was "gifted".    He's not Patrick Roy or Wayne Gretzky.  Or Larry Robinson or even Paul McLean.   As in a former player that was bored and just decided he wanted to coach.   He's a legitimate coach.   I agree with Button. And also it's not Green that is holding EP/BB/PK back.    I'd say it's even odds those some of those  things sort themselves out before he is fired.   

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3 hours ago, mll said:

Button puts the bulk of the blame on JB.  He talks of a poorly constructed blueline.  He says Green is trying to shelter them by playing more conservatively but it's hurting their offensive players.  He think they should go back to their previous approach and let their offensive players loose to play to their strength.  No use trying to win 1 goal games when the D-corps is just not good enough.  Might as well just open things up - Demko already has to save the day.  He believes there's just not much they can do after Benning has cornered the market on bottom pairing Ds. 

 

It's kind of funny because Button used to be a GM. Maybe he's trying to put his name out.

 

Green's really not that good of a coach.

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10 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Green ... guys been coaching and also has GM experience as well since 2008.   He wasn't a special player but did play in a very tough era, and had a very decent NHL career.   Then he went back to his roots as an assistant coach/GM.   After years of that he eventually got his shot at the head coaching job and completely turned his team around and went on an epic run.   This didn't go unnoticed, and his hard work got him the Utica job.   Pretty much did the same thing with an underwhelming roster aside from Markstrom.   Point is he's not an "inexperienced coach"....or even and inexperienced NHL coach anymore.   And absolutely will get another job after this one.   I 100% agree this is mostly on JB.   Gadjovich isn't going to make us win a lot of these one goal losses this season .... that's on Green.   Travis Green wasn't just an early adopter but an actual pioneer on the idea of zone entries and exits.   I bet most on this site aren't even aware of this but have brought it up a few times.   Well before it was a "stat" that was factored in,  Travis and his staff would spend the time with pencils to record it.    Now it is a "thing". When he was hired JB and crew did their due diligence, and found out he was arguably the hardest working coach in the entire AHL.    Constantly trying to both improve his team but also looking for an edge.  

 

See so much vitriol on this site over Green.   He does make in game moves that sometimes work sometimes don't.  But as far as his credentials go - he's 100% put his time in and done it the right way, nothing was "gifted".    He's not Patrick Roy or Wayne Gretzky.  Or Larry Robinson or even Paul McLean.   As in a former player that was bored and just decided he wanted to coach.   He's a legitimate coach.   I agree with Button. And also it's not Green that is holding EP/BB/PK back.    I'd say it's even odds those some of those  things sort themselves out before he is fired.   

This is probably the first time I thoroughly disagree with you.

 

Green 'earned' his way up here, but he's also proven that he doesn't win as a coach at the NHL level. Willie Desjardins has proven more than Green has as a coach (at least in terms of that one season), and their win records are pretty much the same.

 

Green is not a good coach, plain and simple. It's why WD can't get another job in the NHL, or he chooses not to.

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2 hours ago, iinatcc said:

Any NHL team has talent so talent is not the question it's simply the team composition and lack of depth and the team's terrible D.

Coaching isn't THE problem it's a problem but I'd argue management is bigger issuer here. 

Coaching is the the problem. We are last in the PK, and last in the PP. This team is too talented to be this bad.

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55 minutes ago, Dazzle said:

Coaching is the the problem. We are last in the PK, and last in the PP. This team is too talented to be this bad.

I think coaching is a convenient scapegoat to address the real problems of this team. I get we would like to "so to say" have a magic wand to make the problems go away but that's not how it works. 

 

The Oilers pre McDavid also had talented players that just didn't gel together and mo one can blame the coaching especially on how well Eakins is doing now. Oilers problem was that despite the talent they just didn't have a good team. 

 

But going back to the Canucks. Self denial isn't going solve the teams problems and changing the coaching isn't going to magically make the team a playoff team. I said this so many times already all or most of the predictions from the hockey media and journalist and data and analytical models had the Canucks missing the playoffs. Guys like Jeff Patterson even said the Canucks don't have an NHL caliber D-core. When all these predictions had Canucks not being a good enough team, and the end result is that they aren't good enough to win games consistently. Then the problem is beyond coaching and it's the team.

 

I'd also like to believe it's just coaching but it's not the media doesn't think so and neither from predictive analytics. 

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