Stop with the Sky Falling predictions... This team has plenty of talent... what it needs is a coach who can use it

[MJDDawg]

While there’s so many things wrong with this team, is it possible that maybe, just maybe, our top players are not really the top end players that the team and their fans think they are?

 

Outside of Demmer and Hughes, I’m starting to have my doubts.

 

 

 

 

[Chris12345]

26 minutes ago, Podzilla said:

Why does this team not know how to score on the rush? I’ve never seen an NHL team play so bad like this. They don’t even try to do anything on the rush ever. Majority of the teams problems is coaching for sure. Been saying it for years. Nice to see all the sheep starting to wake up. Now it’s time for the sheep to wake up about covid and vaccines. Y’all see the articles they put out about how cold weather causes blood clots and heart attack? Looooool sad thing is most of you sheep will believe that. It’s called vaccine side effects. The same pple who have been talking about depopulation for years are in charge of your vaccines. Literally Nobel prize winning drs/etc  are against this vaccine and you morons are lining up to take it and giving it to your children. Sick. Even Pfizer employees and ceo refused to be vaxxed. Oh and you guys are also the cause of all these new strains. Remember the unvaxxed don’t get tested or play these bs games, it’s all you guys. Stop watching mainstream news, do some research and pull your heads out of your asses or this $&!# will never end. Revisit this post in a few months and you’ll see once again I’m right ;). 

The d is too bad to score off the rush. 

[spook007]

9 hours ago, ba;;isticsports said:

Team lacks heart and grit , playing for each other and not as individuals

Too small, our smallest guy Garland has the biggest heart

You can have all the skill you want, but if there is no chemistry if falls flat

 

Canucks fans like a Hollywood marriage, believing it looks good, then  ending with a messy divorce

This pretty much sums it up...

[King Heffy]

21 minutes ago, MJDDawg said:

While there’s so many things wrong with this team, is it possible that maybe, just maybe, our top players are not really the top end players that the team and their fans think they are?

 

Outside of Demmer and Hughes, I’m starting to have my doubts.

 

 

 

 

Hard to tell when Green is destroying their confidence.   None of these guys have played under an NHL coach.  Why not wait until the cancer of Green is removed before making decisions?

[RU SERIOUS]

You know, after a good nights rest and a clear mind, I've been thinking.........and I think the I've figured out "The Real Problem" with this whole organization and it originates from "That Organ Player' guy up on level 800.  Aqua-Lini has do something about that guy first........

[rekker]

It's been a tough run and lots of blame to go around, but here we are. Fact is the season is a write off. There are plenty of positives and young skill on this team and it's too late to hit the panic button, the team is past that and into damage control time. I say fire Green and Baumer to at the very least save the players from more of the same pain. JB has to be handcuffed from making trades. Next, hire an experienced President of Hockey Opps as soon as possible to start evaluating. No panic with this as I see no need for immediate trades and I want to see the best man there as possible. Perfect scenario would be a POHO in place a month before the trade deadline. There will be offers and possible bidding wars for some of the players and management should be ready to field offers. This will all require some patience as fans but starts with a change in coaching. A change that is  long, long overdue. 

[rekker]

9 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

Hard to tell when Green is destroying their confidence.   None of these guys have played under an NHL coach.  Why not wait until the cancer of Green is removed before making decisions?

Green, Baumer should have coached their last Canucks game a long time ago. I'm fine with Shaw as interim coach till the right replacement is hired. Maybe, maybe Trotz gets fired this spring.

Edited December 5, 2021 by rekker

[MJDDawg]

6 minutes ago, RU SERIOUS said:

You know, after a good nights rest and a clear mind, I've been thinking.........and I think the I've figured out "The Real Problem" with this whole organization and it originates from "That Organ Player' guy up on level 800.  Aqua-Lini has do something about that guy first........

RIP Terry Jones.

[rekker]

54 minutes ago, Podzilla said:

Why does this team not know how to score on the rush? I’ve never seen an NHL team play so bad like this. They don’t even try to do anything on the rush ever. Majority of the teams problems is coaching for sure. Been saying it for years. Nice to see all the sheep starting to wake up. Now it’s time for the sheep to wake up about covid and vaccines. Y’all see the articles they put out about how cold weather causes blood clots and heart attack? Looooool sad thing is most of you sheep will believe that. It’s called vaccine side effects. The same pple who have been talking about depopulation for years are in charge of your vaccines. Literally Nobel prize winning drs/etc  are against this vaccine and you morons are lining up to take it and giving it to your children. Sick. Even Pfizer employees and ceo refused to be vaxxed. Oh and you guys are also the cause of all these new strains. Remember the unvaxxed don’t get tested or play these bs games, it’s all you guys. Stop watching mainstream news, do some research and pull your heads out of your asses or this $&!# will never end. Revisit this post in a few months and you’ll see once again I’m right ;). 

With all the crap going on with our beloved team you want to go off on an antivax tangent? Really?

[Gurn]

11 hours ago, *Buzzsaw* said:

All of those screaming hysterically about dumping the entire team and starting all over again need to get their panties untwisted.

 

 

 

 

2021 and a few people are still trying to keep sexism alive. 

[RU SERIOUS]

1 hour ago, Podzilla said:

Why does this team not know how to score on the rush? I’ve never seen an NHL team play so bad like this. They don’t even try to do anything on the rush ever. Majority of the teams problems is coaching for sure. Been saying it for years. Nice to see all the sheep starting to wake up. Now it’s time for the sheep to wake up about covid and vaccines. Y’all see the articles they put out about how cold weather causes blood clots and heart attack? Looooool sad thing is most of you sheep will believe that. It’s called vaccine side effects. The same pple who have been talking about depopulation for years are in charge of your vaccines. Literally Nobel prize winning drs/etc  are against this vaccine and you morons are lining up to take it and giving it to your children. Sick. Even Pfizer employees and ceo refused to be vaxxed. Oh and you guys are also the cause of all these new strains. Remember the unvaxxed don’t get tested or play these bs games, it’s all you guys. Stop watching mainstream news, do some research and pull your heads out of your asses or this $&!# will never end. Revisit this post in a few months and you’ll see once again I’m right ;). 

    +  .   =  

[Ajax-]

2 hours ago, Topcheeze86 said:

Im saying we need new systems all across the board offensively and defensively 

 

baumer needs to go its stale

I hear you but I asked you what type of systems are you recommending? Describe what you mean

 

How many defensive systems are employed in professional hockey?  What systems is Baumer employing currently? How would you change it?

[bigbadcanucks]

12 hours ago, *Buzzsaw* said:

The biggest problem right now is the blueline... its weak... but that can be compensated for if the forwards support them with solid backchecking and aggressive physical play in the D Zone.

From what I have seen, that is the exact type of game the Canucks are playing right now.  They've got a team full of offensively gifted players playing a defensive trap to mask the weak assortment of defencemen on the roster. 

 

It's evident that forwards aren't buying into this system (especially the kid who's not earning his paycheque right now...yah, you know who I'm talking about) for a full 60 minutes.  And if Miller and Dickison could win a face-off while on the PK, the PK might be a little more effective.  What the hell is Miller doing on the draws with this forward swipe on the puck drop?

 

So it's a combination of coaching and poor players is the line up.  I honestly thought the Canucks defencemen would be better, but I was wrong.

 

Benning and Green both have to go.

 

Never in my years of being a Canucks fan have I ever not given a sh!t about the team.  This is a first for me.  #apathyhassetinonthe2022Canucks

[Warhippy]

I'm really just curious and I'll post this in a few places until we get the numbers.

 

Is this a coaching issue?  Can someone look at players (not Player Name) who have been traded or let go in the last 3 seasons and see what they look like in other systems/different coaches?

 

If the numbers are positive would that not indicate that coaching is an obvious issue as opposed to ownership, management or the roster?

 

Super curious if someone has actually done this math and seen what the numbers look like.  Seems like it would be glaringly obvious and immediately indicative.

[Nucker 67]

How do you win a championship? Draft and develop, over and over.  Jim traded the last two 1sts and some of the better prospects in the pool to try and fast track. 

 

The owners have no clue, falling for those dopey, "aww shucks", excuses from Jimbo, misleading them with promises of playoffs.

 

 

 

[bigbadcanucks]

7 minutes ago, Ajax- said:

I hear you but I asked you what type of systems are you recommending? Describe what you mean

 

How many defensive systems are employed in professional hockey?  What systems is Baumer employing currently? How would you change it?

With the type of players Canucks have, they need to to play a high pressure forechecking game, with d-men pinching and forwards protecting the pinch.  The exact system they played under AV from 2009 to 2012.  They have the right players and the goalie to play this type of game.  Canucks need to play to win 6-4 / 5-3, rather than hoping to win 2-1. 

 

As well, the Canucks need to protect the puck through the neutral zone.  Too many turnovers in the neutral zone (Miller, Hughes, Pettersson, Boeser are the worst at protecting the puck in the neutral zone) are turning into odd man rushes back into the Canucks zone, and the forwards aren't committed enough to help the d-men when this happens.

 

Defensively, the players need to block shots or get the phuck out of the way. 

[bigbadcanucks]

10 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

I'm really just curious and I'll post this in a few places until we get the numbers.

 

Is this a coaching issue?  Can someone look at players (not Player Name) who have been traded or let go in the last 3 seasons and see what they look like in other systems/different coaches?

 

If the numbers are positive would that not indicate that coaching is an obvious issue as opposed to ownership, management or the roster?

 

Super curious if someone has actually done this math and seen what the numbers look like.  Seems like it would be glaringly obvious and immediately indicative.

Travis Boyd in ARZ and Jimmy Vesey in NJ.  Look up their numbers.

[kloubek]

12 hours ago, N4ZZY said:

So you think it’s more a systems issue than a roster issue? 

 

I think it’s both. Green definitely has to go at this point. I think he wants to go based off his actions tonight. 

 

 

It seems that when Benning made his offseason moves, even the Benning nay-sayers largely believed our team was better. On paper, it most certainly looked that way. There were seemingly only a couple remaining holes, and most agreed we should have lots of scoring potential throughout the forward lines.

 

But it hasn't worked that way. Podz and Hogz are helping contribute with secondary scoring as expected, but neither have been fantastic. (I did think this might be the year of the Hog, but can't place much blame on a young player). Dickinson has not produced. Sutter never returned. The depth didn't quite work out as planned.

 

Hughes and Miller have been a couple highlights, but many of our top players are not remotely playing to their ability. It's bad enough if one top six guy alone was in a slump. But Petey, Bo, Pearson and Boeser are all expected to produce. Not only are all these guys not producing, most of them aren't even playing well overall and actually hurting the play most of the time. If we won more of our close games - ie: Even one of these four played to their potential - we would be in the conversation for the playoffs and there wouldn't be this sky is falling mentality.

 

Our d hasn't worked out as hoped either. OEL has been just ok, when I think many expected a career revival. Rathbone wasn't ready. Poolman has looked average at best, and the depth JB brought in has been low on NHL-level skill, save for Schenn  who is fine as a 6th imo. Add in an odd Hamonic situation, and seeing more bad Myers than good Myers, I think our D is still a work in progress.

 

The NHL is a skilled league, and good teams have decent scoring throughout their lineup. I feel this team has exactly that, yet cannot compensate for a core that looks unmotivated and confused. There are still some question marks regarding newer additions to this team and their fit, but until we get our core playing like they can, none of it really matters because we are destined for failure. 

 

So then the only question is: Are their issues a result of badly timed individual struggles, or is it direction from their coaches that is causing them to struggle? I simply refuse to believe these guys forgot how to play hockey, like LE did.

[eeeeergh]

8 hours ago, IBatch said:

Green ... guys been coaching and also has GM experience as well since 2008.   He wasn't a special player but did play in a very tough era, and had a very decent NHL career.   Then he went back to his roots as an assistant coach/GM.   After years of that he eventually got his shot at the head coaching job and completely turned his team around and went on an epic run.   This didn't go unnoticed, and his hard work got him the Utica job.   Pretty much did the same thing with an underwhelming roster aside from Markstrom.   Point is he's not an "inexperienced coach"....or even and inexperienced NHL coach anymore.   And absolutely will get another job after this one.   I 100% agree this is mostly on JB.   Gadjovich isn't going to make us win a lot of these one goal losses this season .... that's on Green.   Travis Green wasn't just an early adopter but an actual pioneer on the idea of zone entries and exits.   I bet most on this site aren't even aware of this but have brought it up a few times.   Well before it was a "stat" that was factored in,  Travis and his staff would spend the time with pencils to record it.    Now it is a "thing". When he was hired JB and crew did their due diligence, and found out he was arguably the hardest working coach in the entire AHL.    Constantly trying to both improve his team but also looking for an edge.  

 

See so much vitriol on this site over Green.   He does make in game moves that sometimes work sometimes don't.  But as far as his credentials go - he's 100% put his time in and done it the right way, nothing was "gifted".    He's not Patrick Roy or Wayne Gretzky.  Or Larry Robinson or even Paul McLean.   As in a former player that was bored and just decided he wanted to coach.   He's a legitimate coach.   I agree with Button. And also it's not Green that is holding EP/BB/PK back.    I'd say it's even odds those some of those  things sort themselves out before he is fired.   

His record as a coach has been horrendous, both in the AHL and now the NHL. Hes on pace for 3 / 9 playoff appearances in his professional coaching career. 

If he pioneered zone entries and exits, you'd think his team would be able to effectively gain the zone and set up instead of this disjointed individual effort that leads to turnovers and no shots for 10 minutes. 

Great that he's hard working, his systems are still atrocious. 

He is currently presiding over the worst penalty kill in the history of the NHL. Everyone watching the games can see why - the players collapse in and just become screens for Demko and let other teams set up as many chances as they want. If Green hasnt fixed that after watching it for 20+ games.. he's a horrible coach. 

 

[eeeeergh]

20 minutes ago, kloubek said:

It seems that when Benning made his offseason moves, even the Benning nay-sayers largely believed our team was better. On paper, it most certainly looked that way. There were seemingly only a couple remaining holes, and most agreed we should have lots of scoring potential throughout the forward lines.

 

But it hasn't worked that way. Podz and Hogz are helping contribute with secondary scoring as expected, but neither have been fantastic. (I did think this might be the year of the Hog, but can't place much blame on a young player). Dickinson has not produced. Sutter never returned. The depth didn't quite work out as planned.

 

Hughes and Miller have been a couple highlights, but many of our top players are not remotely playing to their ability. It's bad enough if one top six guy alone was in a slump. But Petey, Bo, Pearson and Boeser are all expected to produce. Not only are all these guys not producing, most of them aren't even playing well overall and actually hurting the play most of the time. If we won more of our close games - ie: Even one of these four played to their potential - we would be in the conversation for the playoffs and there wouldn't be this sky is falling mentality.

 

Our d hasn't worked out as hoped either. OEL has been just ok, when I think many expected a career revival. Rathbone wasn't ready. Poolman has looked average at best, and the depth JB brought in has been low on NHL-level skill, save for Schenn  who is fine as a 6th imo. Add in an odd Hamonic situation, and seeing more bad Myers than good Myers, I think our D is still a work in progress.

 

The NHL is a skilled league, and good teams have decent scoring throughout their lineup. I feel this team has exactly that, yet cannot compensate for a core that looks unmotivated and confused. There are still some question marks regarding newer additions to this team and their fit, but until we get our core playing like they can, none of it really matters because we are destined for failure. 

 

So then the only question is: Are their issues a result of badly timed individual struggles, or is it direction from their coaches that is causing them to struggle? I simply refuse to believe these guys forgot how to play hockey, like LE did.

More likely direction from coaches. Too many things point to that - a powerplay that has the most basic and uncreative structure, the inability to gain the zone and set up, the nhls worst penalty kill in history.. Players leaving and going on the play way better on other rosters than they did here. 

Sure there are some nights like the end of the Penguins game where the players are starting to give up but I cant really blame them. How frustrating it must be to know even if you play your best, other teams are simply executing a better strategy than you.