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Jim Benning: A Retrospective

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ken kaniff

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almost all of those free agent signings were mostly bad they seemed to like to hit that 6 mil mark with Free Agents not sure why they were stuck on that price point when it came to some of the top free agents then. I really liked Roussel though he was such a menace to other teams except at times he was trying too hard to get under the skin of some players for the most part though loved what he brought to the team unfortunately he was overpayed for his role on the team.

 

Pretty interesting but here is what seems to be the problem with the Management of the team from what Corey Hirsch was saying on Donnie and Dhali

 

 

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image.jpeg.54bf98dc23aa4b7e39d8d1b2af03addb.jpeg

 

Font size? haha

 

I think if the current core works out, he'll be looked upon the same way as Nonis, but more dragged out over 8 years. Drafting the core, but not able to put it altogether. 

 

We'll need some time for the full retrospective to play out. The carcass of the regime is still too fresh.

Edited by DSVII
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11 minutes ago, DSVII said:

image.jpeg.54bf98dc23aa4b7e39d8d1b2af03addb.jpeg

 

Font size? haha

 

I think if the current core works out, he'll be looked upon the same way as Nonis, but more dragged out over 8 years. Drafting the core, but not able to put it altogether. 

 

We'll need some time for the full retrospective to play out. The carcass of the regime is still too fresh.

Up front & in net.  But not on the blueline.  That's still a *HUGE* work in process.

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Hirsch mentioned that Benning and Weisbrod were too close to the vest on ideas. I think they listened to scouts but when it came to free agents and trades and stuff I could see them being two kids making plans for the whole org. It'd make sense when you factor in Linden being outted. Which always bothered me. He was noted as asking around about rebuilds and getting information. I think Benning and Weisbrod had ideas and really only seen things that way. That's assuming what Hirsch heard was true. But it does make some sense in hindsight.

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1 hour ago, iinatcc said:

This is the only retrospective we really need :lol:

 

 

Not many times I actually LMAO but I actually did LMAO at this.

 

 

All kidding aside, best wishes to Jim.

He seems like a good guy and I hope he goes back to something more low profile like scouting which I think he excels at compared to a managerial role.

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2 hours ago, ken kaniff said:

Positives:

-Drafted 8 NHL level players: Elias Pettersson, Quinn Hughes, Brock Boeser, Nils Hoglander, Thatcher Demko, Vasili Podkolzin, Adam Gaudette, Jared McCann

-Traded for JT Miller

-Traded a 3rd for Derek Dorsett

-Traded Bieksa for a 2nd

-Traded Gudbranson for Pearson

-Traded Shinkaruk for Granlund

-Traded Carcone for Leivo

-Signing Garland to a good contract

-Signing Demko to a good contract

-Signed and traded Vanek for Motte which has worked out well.

-Signed Vrbata

-Signed Miller

 

Debatable:

-Trading for OEL and Garland (Both are doing well but having to give up the 9th overall and a 2nd to get rid of the bad contracts JB signed is rough. OEL’s contract is tough to swallow, since imo he’s not living up to it. Good defensively but not putting up any offence)

-Let Markstrom walk for nothing (Vezina calibre G. I understand that Demko showed he was ready to take over but Marky was MVP for 2 years in a row)

-Traded for Toffoli (Big price to give up for 17 games, then didn’t even try and sign him when he fit so well with the team)

-Traded a 2nd for Baertschi (Baer had a few good seasons then got injured. Then never given a chance to make it back on the team despite playing better than certain players like Virtanen and Player Name)

-Ryan Kesler for Luca Sbisa, Nick Bonino, 1st + 3rd (I understand Kesler only allowed a trade to Anaheim, Chicago or Pittsburgh but the return was underwhelming regardless)

-Traded Jason Garrison + for a 2nd (By itself that would be a good trade but what was used with the pick is negative)

-Signed Travis Green as HC (Green has high regard around the league and honestly think he gets way too much hate)

-Traded Hansen for Goldobin (I was ok with the trade itself but didn’t develop Goldy or even let him have a chance with the team)

-Traded Burrows for Dahlen (Again I was good with the trade but didn’t develop him and traded him for a nothing)

-Traded Lack for a 3rd

 

Bad:

-Missed on Juolevi, Virtanen and every other draft pick so far (Draft Guru lol)

-Traded McCann AND a 2nd for Erik Gudbranson

-Traded Nick Bonino, Clendening and a 2nd for Sutter and a 3rd

-Traded a 2nd for Linden Vey

-Traded a 3rd for Dickinson

-Traded Gaudette for Highmore (This was a downgrade at the time. Gaudette came off a good season. Highmore is an AHL player)

-Traded Kassian and a 5th for Prust

-Traded a 3rd for Nate Schmidt then traded him for a 3rd

-Traded Dahlen for Linus Karlsson

-Let Tanev, Toffoli, Vrbata, Hamhuis, Edler, Stecher walk for nothing

-Let Goldobin, Lind and Gadjovich go for nothing (Lind and Gadj are draft misses for JB)

-Signed Willie D as a coach (He just wasn’t a good NHL coach from the start)

-Signed Virtanen then bought him out after 1 season

-Signed Jay Beagle

-Signed Michael Ferland (He had concussion issues already)

-Signed Tyler Myers

-Signed Antoine Roussel

-Signed Loui Player Name

-Signed Braden Holtby then bought him out after 1 season

-Signed Tucker Poolman

-Signed Hamonic

-Signed Sven Baertschi then put him in the minors after 1 season

-Signed Gagner

-Overpayed Tanner Pearson

-Overpayed Brandon Sutter

-Overpayed Erik Gudbranson

 

 

 

There are other smaller moves that are either slightly negative or slightly positive. They don’t mean anything imo and come out to about even.

 

Most of the Debatable points ultimately turned out negative for the team.

 

Benning is a bad GM. I don’t see how you look at this list and say he was good after 8 seasons.

Some decent points.  You can't judge certain things like Poolman or Dickinson on just a 25 game period.  Saying losing Markstrom for nothing is false.  He was going to lose either Demko or Markstrom in the expansion draft and chose to go with Demko.  That is not debatable.  Same thing for Tanev.  Tanev wanted a longer contract, the Canucks were not willing to sign longer due to the expansion draft also questions regarding staying healthy.  Missed draft picks playing in the NHL, such as Forsling.  There are others that are questionable in your assessment like Goldobin (he's not playing in the NHL so how is this a bad?  But fair assessment in most things. 

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3 hours ago, ken kaniff said:

Positives:

-Drafted 8 NHL level players: Elias Pettersson, Quinn Hughes, Brock Boeser, Nils Hoglander, Thatcher Demko, Vasili Podkolzin, Adam Gaudette, Jared McCann

-Traded for JT Miller

-Traded a 3rd for Derek Dorsett

-Traded Bieksa for a 2nd

-Traded Gudbranson for Pearson

-Traded Shinkaruk for Granlund

-Traded Carcone for Leivo

-Signing Garland to a good contract

-Signing Demko to a good contract

-Signed and traded Vanek for Motte which has worked out well.

-Signed Vrbata

-Signed Miller

 

Debatable:

-Trading for OEL and Garland (Both are doing well but having to give up the 9th overall and a 2nd to get rid of the bad contracts JB signed is rough. OEL’s contract is tough to swallow, since imo he’s not living up to it. Good defensively but not putting up any offence)

-Let Markstrom walk for nothing (Vezina calibre G. I understand that Demko showed he was ready to take over but Marky was MVP for 2 years in a row)

-Traded for Toffoli (Big price to give up for 17 games, then didn’t even try and sign him when he fit so well with the team)

-Traded a 2nd for Baertschi (Baer had a few good seasons then got injured. Then never given a chance to make it back on the team despite playing better than certain players like Virtanen and Player Name)

-Ryan Kesler for Luca Sbisa, Nick Bonino, 1st + 3rd (I understand Kesler only allowed a trade to Anaheim, Chicago or Pittsburgh but the return was underwhelming regardless)

-Traded Jason Garrison + for a 2nd (By itself that would be a good trade but what was used with the pick is negative)

-Signed Travis Green as HC (Green has high regard around the league and honestly think he gets way too much hate)

-Traded Hansen for Goldobin (I was ok with the trade itself but didn’t develop Goldy or even let him have a chance with the team)

-Traded Burrows for Dahlen (Again I was good with the trade but didn’t develop him and traded him for a nothing)

-Traded Lack for a 3rd

 

Bad:

-Missed on Juolevi, Virtanen and every other draft pick so far (Draft Guru lol)

-Traded McCann AND a 2nd for Erik Gudbranson

-Traded Nick Bonino, Clendening and a 2nd for Sutter and a 3rd

-Traded a 2nd for Linden Vey

-Traded a 3rd for Dickinson

-Traded Gaudette for Highmore (This was a downgrade at the time. Gaudette came off a good season. Highmore is an AHL player)

-Traded Kassian and a 5th for Prust

-Traded a 3rd for Nate Schmidt then traded him for a 3rd

-Traded Dahlen for Linus Karlsson

-Let Tanev, Toffoli, Vrbata, Hamhuis, Edler, Stecher walk for nothing

-Let Goldobin, Lind and Gadjovich go for nothing (Lind and Gadj are draft misses for JB)

-Signed Willie D as a coach (He just wasn’t a good NHL coach from the start)

-Signed Virtanen then bought him out after 1 season

-Signed Jay Beagle

-Signed Michael Ferland (He had concussion issues already)

-Signed Tyler Myers

-Signed Antoine Roussel

-Signed Loui Player Name

-Signed Braden Holtby then bought him out after 1 season

-Signed Tucker Poolman

-Signed Hamonic

-Signed Sven Baertschi then put him in the minors after 1 season

-Signed Gagner

-Overpayed Tanner Pearson

-Overpayed Brandon Sutter

-Overpayed Erik Gudbranson

 

 

 

There are other smaller moves that are either slightly negative or slightly positive. They don’t mean anything imo and come out to about even.

 

Most of the Debatable points ultimately turned out negative for the team.

 

Benning is a bad GM. I don’t see how you look at this list and say he was good after 8 seasons.

I don't see how a ~.500 record warrants "high regard around the league".

 

I mean, if I'm 50 percent right half the time, sign me up if I get props for that. :rolleyes:

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22 minutes ago, JM_ said:

pretty fair summary @ken kaniff

 

Can't agree with "letting Toffoli walk for nothing" I mean he was there for the playoffs so you're not going to trade him away before that and he was a UFA so. 

 

Also think the OEL and Garland additions can be put int the win column. 

Oddly enough, he buried the Garland trade from the positive column, and merely covered it with signings. Then he sort of expanded on the negatives, in a way that he didn't do with the positives. It's pretty clear the bias of this list lol.

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5 minutes ago, Dazzle said:

Oddly enough, he buried the Garland trade from the positive column, and merely covered it with signings. Then he sort of expanded on the negatives, in a way that he didn't do with the positives. It's pretty clear the bias of this list lol.

Lol cant agree more. You can argue that all the "debatables" were positives. 

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2 hours ago, combover said:

4814D3A9-79D7-45F8-91C7-395A1B59813A.jpeg.89e2e0cb0699432e4a67e3d84cfe3f99.jpeg

 

 

things went wrong right there. 
good bye good luck. 

 

This is something that Boudreau can say.

 

Green and Benning were awful together. That being said, all these players were Benning's vision for the most part. He just let a terrible, unproven coach run his teams. First it was WD, and then it was Green.

 

I think it was the coaching that really hurt Benning.

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6 hours ago, Dazzle said:

Oddly enough, he buried the Garland trade from the positive column, and merely covered it with signings. Then he sort of expanded on the negatives, in a way that he didn't do with the positives. It's pretty clear the bias of this list lol.

I didn’t expand on the bad either. Only thing I expanded on was the debatable section and why I think it could be debated one way or the other.

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12 hours ago, Shekky said:

almost all of those free agent signings were mostly bad they seemed to like to hit that 6 mil mark with Free Agents not sure why they were stuck on that price point when it came to some of the top free agents then. I really liked Roussel though he was such a menace to other teams except at times he was trying too hard to get under the skin of some players for the most part though loved what he brought to the team unfortunately he was overpayed for his role on the team.

 

Pretty interesting but here is what seems to be the problem with the Management of the team from what Corey Hirsch was saying on Donnie and Dhali

 

 

Benning and Weisbrod didn’t use the rest of the staff? 

 

Ok. So they’re not team players. Good riddance that they’re gone. 

 

That’s not the sort of culture you create or perpetuate with winning, Cup winning organizations. 

 

Out with the unhealthy and toxic culture, and hopefully in with the new.

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5 hours ago, Dazzle said:

This is something that Boudreau can say.

 

Green and Benning were awful together. That being said, all these players were Benning's vision for the most part. He just let a terrible, unproven coach run his teams. First it was WD, and then it was Green.

 

I think it was the coaching that really hurt Benning.

Yeah. I think if he had hired Boudreau earlier, you think he still has a job? 

 

I think he might, despite some really erroneous moves he’s made in the past. Most of his UFA signings have not worked out. That’s either bad luck, or just poor judgment on his part. 

 

I thought Green could have turned into a good coach. He’ll be a much better coach for the next team he coaches. Sad that it couldn’t be with us. But that’s the nature of the business unfortunately. 

 

I think Benning needed to go as well. He was a bad communicator. Terrible. He couldn’t seem to communicate well what he wanted to say, often looked like he was fumbling around with his words. Pretty sure he’s a smart man, but he didn’t do himself any favors in not improving his communicating abilities. 

 

 

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22 hours ago, N7Nucks said:

Hirsch mentioned that Benning and Weisbrod were too close to the vest on ideas. I think they listened to scouts but when it came to free agents and trades and stuff I could see them being two kids making plans for the whole org. It'd make sense when you factor in Linden being outted. Which always bothered me. He was noted as asking around about rebuilds and getting information. I think Benning and Weisbrod had ideas and really only seen things that way. That's assuming what Hirsch heard was true. But it does make some sense in hindsight.

Weisbrod, the GM we never heard from - corporate rat.

 

The biggest blemish from my POV, with JB - was the re-signing of Green cause that is one transaction that cannot be fixed with a first round pick; and it was (even more) obvious from the previous season, that it was time to let him go.  

 

As for the player transactions, with hindsight, each transaction can both be criticize & defended at the same time; and JBs' real mistake - was giving out too much term on those contracts.  Hopefully, Aquaman would continue to evolve as an owner, by looking back at some of the (important) lessons, from both of his past GM'S (Gillis & JB).

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6 hours ago, Dazzle said:

This is something that Boudreau can say.

 

Green and Benning were awful together. That being said, all these players were Benning's vision for the most part. He just let a terrible, unproven coach run his teams. First it was WD, and then it was Green.

 

I think it was the coaching that really hurt Benning.

Yeah, he seems to had bought the narrative of Greens' potential and gambled, by giving Green an extension with a deeper roster.  Too bad, Green re paid his gamble with mediocrity; and with hindsight, last season should been enough of a reason to let Green go; but it seemed JB, wanted to re asses Green with a deeper roster - he gambled on the wrong horse - which turned out, to be a donkey wearing a horse costume.

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Benning gambled a lot… He gambled with small skilled/gritty players that we don’t know will handle the play offs when the going gets tough.

Podkolzin was a gamble due to his contract in KHL. Or change gamble to parience.

But Benning got a better player in the draft because other GMs took a bigger player or didn’t want to wait on Podkolzin.

 

So ut will be interesting to see when we reach the semis and the heat is up a few grades.

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