Odjick the Warrior Posted December 8, 2021 Share Posted December 8, 2021 (edited) Canucks get Jeremy Lauzon Vince Dunn Morgan Geekie Seattle gets Bo Horvat Linus Karlsson Dmitri Zloydeyev Tucker Poolman 2022 Jets 3rd round pick Vancouver trades Horvat and then they resign Miller to around 5 year $7,750,000 deal and becomes the 2C, Geekie becomes 3C and Dunn Lauzon play in the top 4 with Hughes and OEL Seattle gets their 1C that they can build down the middle and McCann can move to 2C and Seattle has the RHD depth to make this work with Poolman playing 3rd pair minutes Vancouver Lineup Garland Pettersson Podkolzin Höglander Miller Boeser Pearson Geekie Dickinson Chiasson Lahmmikko Motte scratched Dowling, Hughes Lauzon OEL Dunn Hamonic Myers scratched Schenn, Burroughs Demko Halak Edited December 8, 2021 by Odjick 4 Premier Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patel Bure Posted December 8, 2021 Share Posted December 8, 2021 A big hell no to moving Horvat. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odjick the Warrior Posted December 8, 2021 Author Share Posted December 8, 2021 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Patel Bure said: A big hell no to moving Horvat. Even if trading him rebuilds the right side of the defence and brings in a young 3C ? Edited December 8, 2021 by Odjick 4 Premier Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patel Bure Posted December 8, 2021 Share Posted December 8, 2021 3 minutes ago, Odjick 4 Premier said: Even if trading him rebuilds the right side of the defence and brings in a young 3C ? I’d only consider moving Horvat for a very elite prospect (ie Noah Dobson, Braden Schneider, etc.). I was seriously contemplating the idea of moving both Horvat and Miller about 8-10 days ago but I’ve had a change of heart. I want the Canucks to continue competing hard with their current core players under Bruce Boudreau, and set the tone for next year. If the Canucks are still struggling by the time the 2023 trade deadline rolls around, THEN we explore options for moving Horvat et al. Keep the core for now and let’s see how we do with Boudreau. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drakrami Posted December 8, 2021 Share Posted December 8, 2021 Not sure I am high on Lauzon and Dunn. Geekie is ok. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted December 8, 2021 Share Posted December 8, 2021 (edited) 4 hours ago, Patel Bure said: I’d only consider moving Horvat for a very elite prospect (ie Noah Dobson, Braden Schneider, etc.). I was seriously contemplating the idea of moving both Horvat and Miller about 8-10 days ago but I’ve had a change of heart. I want the Canucks to continue competing hard with their current core players under Bruce Boudreau, and set the tone for next year. If the Canucks are still struggling by the time the 2023 trade deadline rolls around, THEN we explore options for moving Horvat et al. Keep the core for now and let’s see how we do with Boudreau. That said it's a very risky proposition either way you slice it and we won't know the correct choice until it's too late. Trading both Miller and Horvat this year would give you one monster return. Next year they are just rentals, so a lot harder to get a good return unless the player re-signs with that club, and even then it's usually just a throw in pick. Personally feel that the next 25 or so games should give us a good indication of what to do. Know the CDC is on cloud nine right now over the changes, i'm happy for the team too. And like Bruce Bodreau as well. And always have said in this league right now playoff reps matter the most. Especially for a young team a few years away from their primes yet. Horvat and Miller we simply can't afford both without trading or sacrificing something else. Too bad the cap hasn't gone up because then maybe we could do it. Bruce is right by saying it's hard to find a team in the league right now that has the center depth we do. It's a team strength for sure. Hate to see us blow this chance to trade them for later/futures - but also hate to trade them too. Smyl and co have a very tough decision to make. Miller for sure will command 7.5 x 8 on the open market, Horvat about the same too really. Edit: The last three seasons, JT Miller is 16th overall in scoring. His agent could probably push for 9 x 8 really. He's right next to Zinbanejad, and ahead of Stone. Plus he's got intangibles a lot of the guys a little above and below him don't have. He's ahead of Tavares too, three more games but six more points. Think about it. He's going to be the best free agent available, is a LW/C two of the toughest positions to fill. Guys contract is going to be monster sized. Edited December 8, 2021 by IBatch 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted December 8, 2021 Share Posted December 8, 2021 (edited) Miller or Horvat or possibly both have to be traded folks. It would be a mistake to offer him enough to stay (Miller). Unless we win a cup that is but what odds do we have with that this and next season. Not much really. Miller is 16th in scoring last three seasons, ahead of a lot of other "stars" we idolize and wish were on our team. Horvat is 54th for forwards only, one of the best second line C's in the league over that period as well, and a monster in the dot. As an aside QHs is 4th in D scoring which is pretty cool too. At this point Miller is miles ahead of EP statistically, PGP just points or whatever. Guys going to end up with a massive legacy deal that i doubt any team that gets him will ever work out. So we have to ask ourselves, what is the value of having Miller for a playoff round or two next season, over trading him to a team now or next TDL? Tough for sure. Horvat i think would stay. Miller i have really doubt he could resist the type of money he'd be leaving on the table compared to five US states that have no tax. Edit: Just look what Duchene, Skinner, Stone etc got. He's getting a massive pay day. Might only earn a few years of it too. 8-9 for sure. Edited December 8, 2021 by IBatch 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammertime Posted December 8, 2021 Share Posted December 8, 2021 5 hours ago, Drakrami said: Not sure I am high on Lauzon and Dunn. Geekie is ok. Lauzon is a pretty decent PKer. But ya. No to trading Bo unless the return is a landslide W. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Ward Posted December 8, 2021 Share Posted December 8, 2021 7 hours ago, Odjick 4 Premier said: Even if trading him rebuilds the right side of the defence and brings in a young 3C ? First, terrible proposal. Second, Lauzon and Dunn are both LHD 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildcam Posted December 8, 2021 Share Posted December 8, 2021 8 hours ago, Odjick 4 Premier said: Canucks get Jeremy Lauzon Vince Dunn Morgan Geekie Seattle gets Bo Horvat Linus Karlsson Dmitri Zloydeyev Tucker Poolman 2022 Jets 3rd round pick Vancouver trades Horvat and then they resign Miller to around 5 year $7,750,000 deal and becomes the 2C, Geekie becomes 3C and Dunn Lauzon play in the top 4 with Hughes and OEL Seattle gets their 1C that they can build down the middle and McCann can move to 2C and Seattle has the RHD depth to make this work with Poolman playing 3rd pair minutes Vancouver Lineup Garland Pettersson Podkolzin Höglander Miller Boeser Pearson Geekie Dickinson Chiasson Lahmmikko Motte scratched Dowling, Hughes Lauzon OEL Dunn Hamonic Myers scratched Schenn, Burroughs Demko Halak So hard to find a #2 centre for any team.. Saying that I would only trade Horvat if players coming back were much better... We have 3 C but I like Miller better as a winger.. I still say if your going to trade a player Miller 28, W/C would get you the best trade value...At some point we will have to trade a top 5 player with salary cap life. Would think about Miller trade close to trade deadline and see where this Canuck team is then! I still think Vancouver should be a playoff team but this year the start has point them in a big hole...Very excited to see if Bruce can get team on track.. Go Canucks Go! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Posted December 8, 2021 Share Posted December 8, 2021 9 hours ago, Patel Bure said: A big hell no to moving Horvat. People really need to start asking themselves what they're going to think about having Horvat at $7MM+ per year for his age 28-35 seasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patel Bure Posted December 8, 2021 Share Posted December 8, 2021 5 hours ago, IBatch said: That said it's a very risky proposition either way you slice it and we won't know the correct choice until it's too late. Trading both Miller and Horvat this year would give you one monster return. Next year they are just rentals, so a lot harder to get a good return unless the player re-signs with that club, and even then it's usually just a throw in pick. Personally feel that the next 25 or so games should give us a good indication of what to do. Know the CDC is on cloud nine right now over the changes, i'm happy for the team too. And like Bruce Bodreau as well. And always have said in this league right now playoff reps matter the most. Especially for a young team a few years away from their primes yet. Horvat and Miller we simply can't afford both without trading or sacrificing something else. Too bad the cap hasn't gone up because then maybe we could do it. Bruce is right by saying it's hard to find a team in the league right now that has the center depth we do. It's a team strength for sure. Hate to see us blow this chance to trade them for later/futures - but also hate to trade them too. Smyl and co have a very tough decision to make. Miller for sure will command 7.5 x 8 on the open market, Horvat about the same too really. Edit: The last three seasons, JT Miller is 16th overall in scoring. His agent could probably push for 9 x 8 really. He's right next to Zinbanejad, and ahead of Stone. Plus he's got intangibles a lot of the guys a little above and below him don't have. He's ahead of Tavares too, three more games but six more points. Think about it. He's going to be the best free agent available, is a LW/C two of the toughest positions to fill. Guys contract is going to be monster sized. The problem with moving even one of Horvat or Miller now is that it could have too much of a negative rippling effect on our other players. Granted, we haven’t gotten off to a great start, but the players on our team want to compete for the now and be competitive over these coming years. Guys like Garland, OEL, etc., were sold on this idea. If we deviate from the plan and start rebuilding, it could lead to a lot of guys either not putting in effort or leading to a number of players making trade requests. Boudreau was also specifically brought in to take this talented and promising core to see if he can turn them around. I think the Canucks will need to stay married to this core between now and the 2023 trade deadline and see if they can make a solid push both this year and next year. As far as the future goes, maybe the Canucks can become elite once Myers and Pearson come off the books and the Canucks can make better use of that cap space. Hopefully, the Canucks can convince both Horvat and Miller to stay here for the long haul while we move Boeser to clear up cap space. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patel Bure Posted December 8, 2021 Share Posted December 8, 2021 17 minutes ago, Crimson said: People really need to start asking themselves what they're going to think about having Horvat at $7MM+ per year for his age 28-35 seasons. There’s more there with Horvat. Let’s see how he performs with a good coach (Boudreau is the first good coach that Horvat will have had at the NHL level) and some good linemates in which Horvat isn’t necessarily married to certain linemates in a match up role (ie Pearson and Player Name). Guys like Horvat are the players you win with in the playoffs. Horvat was solid for us in the bubble and even had a solid 2015 playoffs all those years ago. I’m not sure what Boudreau’s plans are but maybe he puts Miller and Horvat together on the same line (something that Green chose not to do). Miller-Horvat-Boeser Podkolzin-Pettersson-Garland 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odjick the Warrior Posted December 8, 2021 Author Share Posted December 8, 2021 (edited) 9 hours ago, Dixon Ward said: First, terrible proposal. Second, Lauzon and Dunn are both LHD both can play either side and that will be a huge improvement then what they currently have even if they are playing off hand Edited December 9, 2021 by Odjick 4 Premier Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Ward Posted December 9, 2021 Share Posted December 9, 2021 10 hours ago, Odjick 4 Premier said: both can play either side and that will be a huge improvement then what they currently have even if they are playing off hand Tyler Myers and Travis Hamonic playing for multiple teams, under multiple coaches, both have averaged around 22 minutes for their careers. Dunn and Lauzon two LHD have averaged around 17 minutes for their careers. I would be shocked if they were better than Hamonic and Myers on their off side. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odjick the Warrior Posted December 9, 2021 Author Share Posted December 9, 2021 2 minutes ago, Dixon Ward said: Tyler Myers and Travis Hamonic playing for multiple teams, under multiple coaches, both have averaged around 22 minutes for their careers. Dunn and Lauzon two LHD have averaged around 17 minutes for their careers. I would be shocked if they were better than Hamonic and Myers on their off side. You are forgetting Morgan Geekie who is going to be a great 3C to play with Pearson and Dickinson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Ward Posted December 9, 2021 Share Posted December 9, 2021 38 minutes ago, Odjick 4 Premier said: You are forgetting Morgan Geekie who is going to be a great 3C to play with Pearson and Dickinson You are forgetting that Horvat is our Captain and by far the best player in the trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odjick the Warrior Posted December 9, 2021 Author Share Posted December 9, 2021 (edited) 24 minutes ago, Dixon Ward said: You are forgetting that Horvat is our Captain and by far the best player in the trade. I am not discounting that, but Vancouver will never get better without better RHD players and what they have is not good enough to do anything and sometimes you have to trade a good player to get a package that makes the team better and it’s not like Lauzon, Dunn and Geekie are bums all three are good players but not Horvat’s level I get it but this how a team gets better Remember Linden brought back Bertuzzi and McCabe and Ruttu so not all trades where the best player goes to the other team does it turn out to be bad trade Edited December 9, 2021 by Odjick 4 Premier Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted December 16, 2021 Share Posted December 16, 2021 (edited) On 12/9/2021 at 2:40 AM, Odjick 4 Premier said: I am not discounting that, but Vancouver will never get better without better RHD players and what they have is not good enough to do anything and sometimes you have to trade a good player to get a package that makes the team better and it’s not like Lauzon, Dunn and Geekie are bums all three are good players but not Horvat’s level I get it but this how a team gets better Remember Linden brought back Bertuzzi and McCabe and Ruttu so not all trades where the best player goes to the other team does it turn out to be bad trade That's why you trade Miller. He's not our Captain. He's also from the US and probably misses his guns, and no state tax. As soon as he came here, his pay went down 600k. And he lost his clauses which were about to kick in. Linden...that's the biggest trade tree i can find ever. Didn't die until Markstrom signed in Calgary. One of a kind really. Bertuzzi AND one Sedin...Luongo and Markstrom. That said where we are right now in our cycle is close to where that team was age wise. We have a ton of assets to either stick with, or trade. The Bruce Bump. Sure hope we don't regret it. Edited December 16, 2021 by IBatch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted December 16, 2021 Share Posted December 16, 2021 On 12/8/2021 at 3:25 PM, Odjick 4 Premier said: both can play either side and that will be a huge improvement then what they currently have even if they are playing off hand Nope they will not. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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