Petey, Brock, QH as PK'ers

[wallstreetamigo]

7 hours ago, spook007 said:

While it is brilliant to read that QH ad Petey both wants to PK, and that Boeser also will PK, am I the only one slightly concerned about it as well?

Its great to see they want to learn and be able to play and help the team in any situation, but I dunno about Petey throwing himself in front of slap shots or one times...

 

Both him and Boeser has had wrist problems, and the last thing we need is these players finding their mojo again, only to be sidelined for substantial time by injuries...?

I'm maybe putting too much into this, but wonder how you all feel about that?

I am not concerned because it doesn’t look like shot blocking is going to be a key focus of the PK now that Baumgartner is gone. It seems like aggressive pressure, sticks in lanes and sticks on pucks, and quick puck movement are going to be the staples. Makes sense for your fast, skilled players to be the ones doing that.

[spook007]

41 minutes ago, Chickenspear said:

Podz had a PK shift last game as well, which was nice to see. 

Absolutely.... and the boy is strong, both on the puck, but also holding the play up against the boards... Give it 3-4 years, and he'll be an absolute beast to play against on both ends of the rink.

[spook007]

Just now, wallstreetamigo said:

I am not concerned because it doesn’t look like shot blocking is going to be a key focus of the PK now that Baumgartner is gone. It seems like aggressive pressure, sticks in lanes and sticks on pucks, and quick puck movement are going to be the staples. Makes sense for your fast, skilled players to be the ones doing that.

Yep again totally understand that, but there will be times you are under siege PK'ing, and then you'll have today the price at times. I'm not sure Petey is durable enough for this?

Hogs and Podz total different animals. Time will tell, but as I said to Vegas as well, regardless of everything, the fact Boudreau is changing it up is a massive positive, as status quo was useless, and things had to change....

[Baggins]

8 hours ago, spook007 said:

While it is brilliant to read that QH ad Petey both wants to PK, and that Boeser also will PK, am I the only one slightly concerned about it as well?

Its great to see they want to learn and be able to play and help the team in any situation, but I dunno about Petey throwing himself in front of slap shots or one times...

 

Both him and Boeser has had wrist problems, and the last thing we need is these players finding their mojo again, only to be sidelined for substantial time by injuries...?

I'm maybe putting too much into this, but wonder how you all feel about that?

Guys like Boeser and Petey certainly increase the chance of a short handed goal. Neither has been shy about blocking shots though. Each have more blocked shots (12 each) than Hogs and Garland combined (9 combined). Petey has fearlessly laid out on the ice to block shots. Dickinson, Pearson and Horvat lead all forwards in blocked shots with 17. Miller, who leads all forwards in PK time, only has 2 more blocked shots (14) than Petey and Boeser.

[Elias Pettersson]

8 hours ago, spook007 said:

While it is brilliant to read that QH ad Petey both wants to PK, and that Boeser also will PK, am I the only one slightly concerned about it as well?

Its great to see they want to learn and be able to play and help the team in any situation, but I dunno about Petey throwing himself in front of slap shots or one times...

 

Both him and Boeser has had wrist problems, and the last thing we need is these players finding their mojo again, only to be sidelined for substantial time by injuries...?

I'm maybe putting too much into this, but wonder how you all feel about that?

Gretzky is the all time leader in shorthanded goals.  He didn't have to throw his body out there.  Same with Bure.  We need to make our PK dangerous.  If you have weapons out there that are a threat to score then it throws off the other team's PP.  

 

The PK needs to be more aggressive, not just holding back waiting for the other team to make a move.  Motte, Dickinson, Lammikko can be the guys who put their bodies on the line for blocks.  When Petey and Boeser are out there as well as Podkolzin, they need to simply put pressure on the Dmen to move the puck. Our Dmen need to be better shot blockers though.  Tanev and Edler were really good at it.  Mind you some of Tanev's injuries came as a result of blocking shots, so everyone needs to be careful.

 

But overall, I like the idea of having an aggressive PK and it makes guys like Petey and Boeser more involved in the game.  Not sure about having Quinn out there though.  He already is playing 25 minutes a night.  I guess it doesn't hurt to try though as he may be needed at some point to kill penalties if the other defencemen are hurt or in the box.

[flat land fish]

7 hours ago, shiznak said:

I wouldn’t want two of our top guys (Hughes and Pettersson) who give up the most scoring chances against on our PK. 

If you look at it a different way these two players probably have more insight in how the offense is going to attack then less creative players.  Arguably Peteys best attribute is hockey sense and that’s exactly what you need on the pk.  Close of the big chances and you aren’t blocking a 100 mph one timer.

[VegasCanuck]

1 hour ago, spook007 said:

Yes I get that Vegas, but on a PK there will be times, probably also lots of them, where they have to defend, and part of that is sacrifice...

I guess, we'll see soon enough.... Best part regardless is the change. Something had/has to change, so anything is better than nothing.

They aren't going to be out for all of them, and if you look at what BB is talking about, it's 4 groups of 2 forwards, who can play really high energy for 30 seconds and then get off the ice. Try and keep shooting channels clear and let the goalie stop the puck

 

If Demko see's the puck from the point, there are very few that will get past him. When the do, it's often due to someone trying to block it and winding up deflecting it instead. BB is talking about creating maximum pressure on opposition teams, making them keep the puck moving and not giving them time to setup. We've been far to passive on the Penalty kill, thought that for awhile.

 

I also think we use the drop pass to gain the zone, WAY too often. If you do it once or twice, great, if you do it every play, you become predictable.

 

[King Heffy]

1 hour ago, spook007 said:

Again agree 100%.

This was probably why most folks were complaining about Baumer... his unwillingness to change his way, and later Green, for not getting rid of Baumer, seeing that the system wasn't working.

Yep, that was my issue with Baumer.  Playing so conservatively allowed teams to keep us stuck in our own zone and tire us out.  Way too many shifts of over 90 seconds, three times what Boudreau wants.

[tas]

I suggested a few weeks ago that those guys should be killing penalties, at least until the pk is sorted out. 

 

make your leaders lead by example. 

[wallstreetamigo]

21 minutes ago, tas said:

I suggested a few weeks ago that those guys should be killing penalties, at least until the pk is sorted out. 

 

make your leaders lead by example. 

Same with me. I think part of the issue was that the GM and Coach were saying the young guys took over the leadership of the team but then told them they couldn’t pk on a historically bad pk.

[Provost]

I don't think it is going to be an every day occurrence.  I think Boudreau just wanted to get them out of their funk and throw something different at them to focus some energy on.  Some of those guys wouldn't have killed penalties since junior, so a good little shock to them... also maybe less likely to throw stones at the regular PKers once they see how hard it is.

Maybe a couple of the top guys stick in that role, but don't expect Hughes to be racking up PK minutes every game.

It was pretty obvious some games where we had a few penalties in a row and would never put out the top lines and they would sit for most of a period without playing... then be terrible when they got back on the ice from being thrown in cold.  It took them out of the game and that is bad news when you are talking about your best players.

Edited December 8, 2021 by Provost

[spook007]

1 hour ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Gretzky is the all time leader in shorthanded goals.  He didn't have to throw his body out there.  Same with Bure.  We need to make our PK dangerous.  If you have weapons out there that are a threat to score then it throws off the other team's PP.  

 

The PK needs to be more aggressive, not just holding back waiting for the other team to make a move.  Motte, Dickinson, Lammikko can be the guys who put their bodies on the line for blocks.  When Petey and Boeser are out there as well as Podkolzin, they need to simply put pressure on the Dmen to move the puck. Our Dmen need to be better shot blockers though.  Tanev and Edler were really good at it.  Mind you some of Tanev's injuries came as a result of blocking shots, so everyone needs to be careful.

 

But overall, I like the idea of having an aggressive PK and it makes guys like Petey and Boeser more involved in the game.  Not sure about having Quinn out there though.  He already is playing 25 minutes a night.  I guess it doesn't hurt to try though as he may be needed at some point to kill penalties if the other defencemen are hurt or in the box.

That was my original concern... simples.

But yes something had to change regardless as status Quo was untenable. Will be interesting to see... 

[spook007]

1 hour ago, VegasCanuck said:

They aren't going to be out for all of them, and if you look at what BB is talking about, it's 4 groups of 2 forwards, who can play really high energy for 30 seconds and then get off the ice. Try and keep shooting channels clear and let the goalie stop the puck

 

If Demko see's the puck from the point, there are very few that will get past him. When the do, it's often due to someone trying to block it and winding up deflecting it instead. BB is talking about creating maximum pressure on opposition teams, making them keep the puck moving and not giving them time to setup. We've been far to passive on the Penalty kill, thought that for awhile.

 

I also think we use the drop pass to gain the zone, WAY too often. If you do it once or twice, great, if you do it every play, you become predictable.

 

Aye the drop pass was ok during the Sedin era, but agree the entries should changed up, as otherwise it become easier to defend against...

[spook007]

11 minutes ago, Provost said:

I don't think it is going to be an every day occurrence.  I think Boudreau just wanted to get them out of their funk and throw something different at them to focus some energy on.  Some of those guys wouldn't have killed penalties since junior, so a good little shock to them... also maybe less likely to throw stones at the regular PKers once they see how hard it is.

Maybe a couple of the top guys stick in that role, but don't expect Hughes to be racking up PK minutes every game.

It was pretty obvious some games where we had a few penalties in a row and would never put out the top lines and they would sit for most of a period without playing... then be terrible when they got back on the ice from being thrown in cold.  It took them out of the game and that is bad news when you are talking about your best players.

Absolutely... 

[VegasCanuck]

1 hour ago, spook007 said:

Aye the drop pass was ok during the Sedin era, but agree the entries should changed up, as otherwise it become easier to defend against...

Exactly! This is something that bugged me over the last year, and a LOT of teams do it. They drop to a trailer and all stand at the blueline and wait for the puck to get in. I think it's easier to gain the zone if everyone is in motion and skating hard.

[Elias Pettersson]

1 hour ago, tas said:

I suggested a few weeks ago that those guys should be killing penalties, at least until the pk is sorted out. 

 

make your leaders lead by example. 

Boudreau even said in his press conference that our PK is so bad what does it hurt to try other guys?  You can’t get any worse than 60%. 

[EddieVedder]

4 hours ago, wallstreetamigo said:

I am not concerned because it doesn’t look like shot blocking is going to be a key focus of the PK now that Baumgartner is gone. It seems like aggressive pressure, sticks in lanes and sticks on pucks, and quick puck movement are going to be the staples. Makes sense for your fast, skilled players to be the ones doing that.

They weren't blocking shots at all under baumer this year.  

Theyll need to be willing to shot block to have success on the pk.

[Rindiculous]

9 hours ago, shiznak said:

How it is a meaningless stat?

 

Do you know why Hughes gives up these scoring chances? If you pay close attention, you often see him out of position. He can barely win his puck battles along the boards or push guys out of the way in front of the net. Yet people think he can play on the PK. 

There's no way to know unless you try...or do you want us to keep chugging along with a 64% PK?

[VC420]

I don't mind the idea. People are worried about EP or Brock getting injured while blocking shots but have never seemed to mind it when JT Miller blocks a shot on the PK and he literally is our leading scorer.

 

Nobody deserves to miss out on games because a blocked shot, but its a reality that its a part of hockey and I don't think you can call yourself a hockey player if you don't block shots. I agree that recognizing which players are best at what and using their talents effectively is extremely important, but as I said, blocking shots is a part of hockey and is something ALL hockey players should do. Some guys like Tanev make a career out of it while some only block when absolutely necessary, and either is fine. Just don't shelter guys from the reality of being a hockey player, make them embrace it.
 

I think its important to remind guys like EP, Brock and Hughes that even though you have special skills, you are still a hockey player first. You are not a pointman first, you are not a one-timer specialist first, you are a hockey player first and sometimes you gotta go out there and just play some damn hockey. Kill some penalties, crash the net, get into scrums, throw a hit, take a hit, block a shot, and get involved. Garland is tiny looking out there, he is smaller then Petey but he is getting involved in the play WAY more than Petey because Garland is playing hockey and EP is only specific parts of hockey.

 

I think this could go a long way to helping a guy like Petey relax and not worry about whether or not he is contributing enough. Playing more defensive minutes and helping out in other areas can help a guy feel like he is still a part of the team, it can give you something to feel god about at the end of a game, even though you didn't get a point, you still helped kill off a key penalty or block a dangerous shot. You aren't as down on yourself at the end of a game which helps to bring in a more relaxed and confident attitude to the next game which can only help your overall game and your chances of finding the score sheet. When you don't play important defensive roles AND you aren't scoring points you really have nothing to feel good about. 

 

I hope that playing the PK can remind some of these guys what being a hockey player is all about and re-spark their passion and confidence, get them feeling better about themselves and their contributions to the team. 

 

It may all backfire, but I believe it can really work. Besides, when you hit rock bottom you got nowhere to go but up (Lets hope that proves true).

 

Lets see a big win tonight boys!!!! Beat the Bruins!!!! Go Canucks Go!!!

 

 

Edited December 9, 2021 by VC420
grammatic error

[tas]

2 hours ago, wallstreetamigo said:

Same with me. I think part of the issue was that the GM and Coach were saying the young guys took over the leadership of the team but then told them they couldn’t pk on a historically bad pk.

I think part of it was textbook young coach overthinking. green was determined to put guys in positions to succeed, which in his mind I assume meant putting guys in roles that suit their skillsets and abilities. defensive players in defensive roles, offensive players in offensive roles, pretty unwaveringly. I still feel like he was largely good at that, as evidenced in the way he developed his high end rookies -- he seems adept at not giving guys too much too fast while also not holding them back.

 

but at a certain point, you need to let your best players be your best players. fine tune the roles guys are in after you've established the rock solid foundation of consistent compete and execution of the gameplan. until then, rely on your big dogs so that they get to FEEL like big dogs.