[Proposal] Myers to Montreal for Toffoli

[JM_]

here's more recent data

1 minute ago, qwijibo said:

Lol I’m a troll now ?  That’s rich.   Tell you what. You go ahead and put me on ignore and I’ll return the favour. 

lets see, who's on which teams site?

[JM_]

2 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Some people don't like to use facts in their argument.  They only like to bash.  Myers is the new whipping boy.  But under the guidance of Shaw that will change in a hurry.

yeah its horse pucks. OEL-Myers has been good this year.

 

1.08 GA/60 puts them in them in some really good company. https://moneypuck.com/lines.htm

 

Montreal would be lucky to get him.

[qwijibo]

3 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Well if Montreal is tearing it down they definitely wouldn't be trading Toffoli for Myers.  They would want Höglander or Podkolzin.  Too bad they got little Cole instead.  Their rebuild is gonna be tough, especially in a hockey market like Montreal.

I’m not going to get into a pissing match with you over who has better prospects.  Montreal is bad this year. No debate.  They’re also missing half their lineup.  It’s going to be a long season.   But a little food for thought. Vancouver is only 5 points ahead of them. 

[nux_win]

We get pushed around too much as it is and you want to trade away our biggest player for another forward (where we have plenty of talent already)?  Myers actually skates pretty well for a big man and he has some offensive upside.  He's not the shut down defender that we so badly need but he isn't as bad defensively as people think.  So, NO to the trade proposal. 

 

I don't think that we should make any major moves until we know what we have.  We've already had a lot of player turnover.  Sometimes it takes players a little while to mesh with each other.  I think the coaching and management changes were needed but now we need to be patient and work with what we have.  Or at least find out more about what we have before we make panicky moves.  I don't think our current record is an indication of our current talent.  GCG!

[qwijibo]

3 minutes ago, JM_ said:

here's more recent data

lets see, who's on which teams site?

I live in BC and watch every Canucks game.  Just because my main team is Montreal  doesn’t mean I can’t root for Vancouver.  

[kanucks25]

10 minutes ago, JM_ said:

 

Hooooooooold up.

 

Now we accept analytics on CDC?

 

News to me.

[JM_]

3 minutes ago, qwijibo said:

I live in BC and watch every Canucks game.  Just because my main team is Montreal  doesn’t mean I can’t root for Vancouver.  

yeah it actually does.

[JM_]

1 minute ago, kanucks25 said:

Hooooooooold up.

 

Now we accept analytics on CDC?

 

News to me.

have an actual look though, you might be surprised how effective OEL-Myers has been.

[Coconuts]

19 minutes ago, kanucks25 said:

I'll take "Things you'll only ever read on CDC" for 100, Alex.

Nah. The NHL has marveled at our ability to bleed goals all season, losing at Myers at this junction in the season would be devastating to our chances of looking remotely respectable out there. Even the most casual of hockey fans could probably point out we've given up too much defensively under Green. 

 

I know that Myers is a CDC whipping boy, but making an already questionable defense weaker doesn't make any sense. OEL and Myers as a pairing, and Myers as a player, aren't why we're in the hole we're in. 

 

We're better off seeing what our players look like under competent coaching staff before accepting the narrative that what we've seen thus far is an accurate representation of what our team is capable of. It's no coincidence that players have left this team in recent years and had success elsewhere.

[kanucks25]

Just now, JM_ said:

have an actual look though, you might be surprised how effective OEL-Myers has been.

The tweet you referenced is from November 11, earlier in the season when we were a bit more steady.

 

Updated stats have the OEL - Poolman pairing with better numbers.

 

In either case, it says a lot more about OEL who has been a rock.

 

[JM_]

Just now, kanucks25 said:

The tweet you referenced is from November 11, earlier in the season when we were a bit more steady.

 

Updated stats have the OEL - Poolman pairing with better numbers.

 

In either case, it says a lot more about OEL who has been a rock.

 

I posted the new ones too.

 

He has been good, but if the net effect is to raise Myers game too then thats a big win for us. You see that a lot, some guys just raise the tide of their partner, like Tanev e.g.

[qwijibo]

2 minutes ago, JM_ said:

yeah it actually does.

Your fan gatekeeping means as much to me as the rest of your opinions.  So I’m done. You’re on ignore and I’ll continue as I always have 

[JM_]

Just now, qwijibo said:

Your fan gatekeeping means as much to me as the rest of your opinions.  So I’m done. You’re on ignore and I’ll continue as I always have 

good.

[kanucks25]

Just now, Coconuts said:

Nah. The NHL has marveled at our ability to bleed goals all season, losing at Myers at this junction in the season would be devastating to our chances of looking remotely respectable out there. Even the most casual of hockey fans could probably point out we've given up too much defensively under Green. 

 

I know that Myers is a CDC whipping boy, but making an already questionable defense weaker doesn't make any sense. OEL and Myers as a pairing, and Myers as a player, aren't why we're in the hole we're in. 

 

We're better off seeing what our players look like under competent coaching staff before accepting the narrative that what we've seen thus far is an accurate representation of what our team is capable of. It's no coincidence that players have left this team in recent years and had success elsewhere.

Yeah but the thing is Myers has quite a large sample size of work to look at before Green was ever his coach, so it's not like the alleged warts have been pulled out of thin air.

 

Will he look better under the new coaching staff? Yeah probably.

 

Does that mean he'll be at good value? Probably not, he has a long way to go.

 

Willing to wait and give him the benefit of the doubt for now. Not like we're going to get any major changes anytime soon anyway.

[kanucks25]

1 minute ago, JM_ said:

I posted the new ones too.

 

He has been good, but if the net effect is to raise Myers game too then thats a big win for us. You see that a lot, some guys just raise the tide of their partner, like Tanev e.g.

Sure, but a player that needs his game to be raised by his partner shouldn't be paid 6M.

 

For that, he should be on the 2nd pair carrying a lesser LD partner.

[eeeeergh]

1 hour ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Exactly.  Even Dickinson looks dangerous out there.  He was playing with Jamie Benn in Dallas, so I was wondering why he sucked so badly when he came here.  Now we know the answer.  Green.  

Dickinson looked like an old school power forward. Way beyond anything I expected. Hopefully he keeps doing that!

[JM_]

5 minutes ago, kanucks25 said:

Sure, but a player that needs his game to be raised by his partner shouldn't be paid 6M.

 

For that, he should be on the 2nd pair carrying a lesser LD partner.

"should" is fun and all, but we have who we have. If OEL raises Myers game to be worth that, then who cares? enjoy it and appreciate it while it lasts.

[Coconuts]

11 minutes ago, kanucks25 said:

Yeah but the thing is Myers has quite a large sample size of work to look at before Green was ever his coach, so it's not like the alleged warts have been pulled out of thin air.

 

Will he look better under the new coaching staff? Yeah probably.

 

Does that mean he'll be at good value? Probably not, he has a long way to go.

 

Willing to wait and give him the benefit of the doubt for now. Not like we're going to get any major changes anytime soon anyway.

Yes, but how many hockey players are perfect? And how many truly competitive Canucks teams has he been part of? He's a cog in the machine, albeit one who may be a tad overpaid. He's not a #1-2D, he's more of a #3-4. Is that a ringing endorsement of Myers? No, but how many players on this team truly deserve that? Garland? Demko? OEL?

 

His playing with OEL doesn't make him a #2, it simply speaks to our D needing to be improved. And there's more that goes into pairings that designating this guy or that this number or that number. Does he need to be better? The entire team needs to be better, but the coaching staff can only work with what they're given.

 

Am I expecting to be blown away going forward? Nah, but I figure we'll look more competitive. It's going to take a while to unlearn Green's stuff, and any organizational changes will take a while to settle in. 

 

 

Edited December 8, 2021 by Coconuts

[eeeeergh]

20 minutes ago, JM_ said:

yeah its horse pucks. OEL-Myers has been good this year.

 

1.08 GA/60 puts them in them in some really good company. https://moneypuck.com/lines.htm

 

Montreal would be lucky to get him.

I might have to change my bias about Myers tbh. Looking at that list, OEL is featured on our best two pairings (OEL-Poolman, and OEL-Myers), But Hughes-Myers was also a very respectable 2.2 xGA. 

Not quite the half human brain-dead gaffe machine I thought he was. 

Still think one more top-4 defenseman would be nice though to round it out. Hughes, OEL, Myers + 1 more top 4. Then we've got Hamonic, Poolman, Schenn for #5 and #6. 

[kanucks25]

3 minutes ago, JM_ said:

"should" is fun and all, but we have who we have. If OEL raises Myers game to be worth that, then who cares? enjoy it and appreciate it while it lasts.

If he plays shutdown minutes at a respectable level for an entire season, sure.

 

We're just over a quarter way in and he's already been demoted once.

 

Well see.