[proposal] Moving Ferland + our 2023 1st so that we can afford Miller, Boeser, and Horvat

[Patel Bure]

[proposal] Moving Ferland + our 2023 1st so that we can afford Miller, Boeser, and Horvat

 

The Canucks will likely have to move on from one of Boeser, Miller, or Horvat at some point....or will they?  Correct me I’m wrong, but wouldn’t the Canucks be able to afford Boeser’s 7.5 QO if they got Ferland off the books?  Then, in the following season, Hamonic can be replaced by someone like Juulsen while we also move Pearson so that we can afford both Horvat and Miller.

 

Now obviously - all of the above is a moot point is if this current Canucks winning streak is just a hot streak.  If the Canucks go back to struggling and are way out of it by the trade deadline, then you obviously make a JT Miller move at the deadline and bring a guy like Braden Schneider in return.

 

On the flip side, if the Canucks make a miraculous come back this season and make the playoffs, then the goal should be for the Canucks to keep this core intact and build upon the fruits of this season.  Hence - my Ferland + 1st idea to clear cap and using that money to qualify Brock.  
 

The obvious trading partner in this instance would once again be Arizona. They get our 2023rd 1st for their efforts to take on Ferland, while we get a good young piece in return.....

[King Heffy]

Ferland is on LTIR; we don't need to get rid of him.

 

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, King Heffy said:

Ferland is on LTIR; we don't need to get rid of him.

 

Yup.  Exactly this.  

[Pears]

Approximately 20 minites after Rutherford said he doesn’t intend on trading any picks   

[Patel Bure]

11 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

Ferland is on LTIR; we don't need to get rid of him.

 

Even if Ferland is on LTIR, doesn’t this make a difference to our available cap space heading into next season?  I’ll have to admit that my knowledge of LTIR is a little weak. @mll - how would this work?

[Patel Bure]

5 minutes ago, Pears said:

Approximately 20 minites after Rutherford said he doesn’t intend on trading any picks   

It’s a moot point now.  I just sent Rutherford a tweet with a link to this thread and so his opinion will change.  

[King Heffy]

7 minutes ago, Patel Bure said:

Even if Ferland is on LTIR, doesn’t this make a difference to our available cap space heading into next season?  I’ll have to admit that my knowledge of LTIR is a little weak. @mll - how would this work?

You can go over the cap by the amount of the LTIR.  The only real issue is that you can't pay bonuses out of it so those will have to slide to next year.  

[Patel Bure]

@mrturkish - thoughts?!  :-p

[VegasCanuck]

1 hour ago, Patel Bure said:

[proposal] Moving Ferland + our 2023 1st so that we can afford Miller, Boeser, and Horvat

 

The Canucks will likely have to move on from one of Boeser, Miller, or Horvat at some point....or will they?  Correct me I’m wrong, but wouldn’t the Canucks be able to afford Boeser’s 7.5 QO if they got Ferland off the books?  Then, in the following season, Hamonic can be replaced by someone like Juulsen while we also move Pearson so that we can afford both Horvat and Miller.

 

Now obviously - all of the above is a moot point is if this current Canucks winning streak is just a hot streak.  If the Canucks go back to struggling and are way out of it by the trade deadline, then you obviously make a JT Miller move at the deadline and bring a guy like Braden Schneider in return.

 

On the flip side, if the Canucks make a miraculous come back this season and make the playoffs, then the goal should be for the Canucks to keep this core intact and build upon the fruits of this season.  Hence - my Ferland + 1st idea to clear cap and using that money to qualify Brock.  
 

The obvious trading partner in this instance would once again be Arizona. They get our 2023rd 1st for their efforts to take on Ferland, while we get a good young piece in return.....

There is ZERO reason to do this. Just pretend that Ferland doesn't exist, pretty much every GM will tell you that's how they work with LTIR contracts.

 

We have MORE than enough space to resign Horvat and Boeser, and Miller if we choose to. The summer that we would have to have new contracts in place for Horvat and Miller, we currently are tagged to have over 35 million in space available.

Edited December 13, 2021 by VegasCanuck

[Elias Pettersson]

We are already over the cap.  If we trade Ferland we would still be over.  Trading Ferland doesn't save us any cap space.  It would only work if we were under the cap and could get rid of his salary so it wouldn't be added to the cap.  If that makes sense. 

[flickyoursedin]

Yeah the only thing getting rid of Ferland would do is save Aqualini 3.25 million and we lose draft picks to do it. Does nothing for our cap space.

[NewbieCanuckFan]

1 hour ago, Patel Bure said:

The obvious trading partner in this instance would once again be Arizona. They get our 2023rd 1st for their efforts to take on Ferland, while we get a good young piece in return.....

It's actually not that obvious.  *ONLY* reason why they had interest in obtaining those guys like the former six million dollar man was that his contract was back-end loaded (his cap hit was far more than what actual cash he was being paid).  Sure the Yotes have acquired guys on perpetual LTIR in the past but those contracts were *INSURED*.  Yotes paid essentially ZERO dollars.  Ferland's contract is *NOT* insured.  Why would the Yotes want that?  They still end up paying actual cash salary for a guy that won't play.  They're a cap floor team so even a 1st round pick wouldn't be enough to entice them.  Just another one of Benning's mistakes (signing a guy you know had serious injury issues if an insurance company refused to insure him).

Edited December 13, 2021 by NewbieCanuckFan

[Junkyard Dog]

Everything I got from the Rutherford presser is that he wants to build a long-term successful team. He wants younger guys that fit our age group, even if it might take a bit for the group to come together. He pointed out that there are holes on the roster that could take a while to fill given our cap implications. 

 

Sounds like we aren't gonna make any short-term quick fixes moves. In fact we could be sellers.

[Patel Bure]

4 minutes ago, Junkyard Dog said:

Everything I got from the Rutherford presser is that he wants to build a long-term successful team. He wants younger guys that fit our age group, even if it might take a bit for the group to come together. He pointed out that there are holes on the roster that could take a while to fill given our cap implications. 

 

Sounds like we aren't gonna make any short-term quick fixes moves. In fact we could be sellers.

Yeah I just heard the presser as well.  Was pretty impressed by JR.

[eeeeergh]

39 minutes ago, VegasCanuck said:

There is ZERO reason to do this. Just pretend that Ferland doesn't exist, pretty much every GM will tell you that's how they work with LTIR contracts.

 

We have MORE than enough space to resign Horvat and Boeser, and Miller if we choose to. The summer that we would have to have new contracts in place for Horvat and Miller, we currently are tagged to have over 35 million in space available.

Yes, this. I dont know why everyones panicking, or why they think Horvat and Miller are going to get these massive contract increases, its not like they're on their ELCs right now. They're not in the same tier as players getting 8-9m/year. Our best player (by far) is getting 7.8. 

Both Miller and Horvat are gonna get 1 - 1.5m/year increases which would put them around 6.5-7m/year. Hughes at 7.8 should be the most expensive on the team. Boeser goes from 6m to 7.5m/year. 

We might end up short by 1-2m but Pearson or Poolman can be moved to make room. 

[VegasCanuck]

6 minutes ago, eeeeergh said:

Yes, this. I dont know why everyones panicking, or why they think Horvat and Miller are going to get these massive contract increases, its not like they're on their ELCs right now. They're not in the same tier as players getting 8-9m/year. Our best player (by far) is getting 7.8. 

Both Miller and Horvat are gonna get 1 - 1.5m/year increases which would put them around 6.5-7m/year. Hughes at 7.8 should be the most expensive on the team. Boeser goes from 6m to 7.5m/year. 

We might end up short by 1-2m but Pearson or Poolman can be moved to make room. 

I did a forecast 2 or 3 months ago, on where I saw the team financially, through to the 24/25 season, when the cap should really move again. It was based on some guys I thought would stay, some I thought would move. I don't think Myers will be with us through the end of his contract, I'm not sure that Miller will be resigned or if we will find a replacement for his energy, within our own group of prospects. If I can find it again, I'll post it back here.

[Junkyard Dog]

10 minutes ago, eeeeergh said:

Yes, this. I dont know why everyones panicking, or why they think Horvat and Miller are going to get these massive contract increases, its not like they're on their ELCs right now. They're not in the same tier as players getting 8-9m/year. Our best player (by far) is getting 7.8. 

Both Miller and Horvat are gonna get 1 - 1.5m/year increases which would put them around 6.5-7m/year. Hughes at 7.8 should be the most expensive on the team. Boeser goes from 6m to 7.5m/year. 

We might end up short by 1-2m but Pearson or Poolman can be moved to make room. 

Difference is Horvat and Miller are UFAs not RFAs. Boeser has a 7.5M qualifying offer too.

 

On the open market Miller can get 8M+ the way he is playing. Horvat could get 7M+. They will be some of the top free agents on the market. Miller could be the top free agent if Mackinnon isn't re-signed.

[eeeeergh]

1 minute ago, Junkyard Dog said:

Difference is Horvat and Miller are UFAs not RFAs. Boeser has a 7.5M qualifying offer too.

 

On the open market Miller can get 8M+ the way he is playing. Horvat could get 7M+. They will be some of the top free agents on the market. Miller could be the top free agent if Mackinnon isn't re-signed.

I mean, its possible, but even so we're not talking about being 10m over the cap. Even if it takes 7m for Horvat and 8m for Miller, we can easily afford both and have room to spare without Pearsons contract.

Cap goes up by 1m
Luongo recapture gone (but partly taken over by Holtby/virtanen buyouts) 1.1m
Halak replaced by DiPietro (0.7m)
Sutter gone or remains on IR (0.6m)
We probably trade Pearson (3.2m)

Thats like 6.5m of space.

Boeser gets a 1.7m raise
Horvat gets 1.5m (to 7m)
Miller gets 2.75m (to 8m- unrealistic imo, i think he gets 7)

We're fine!
 

[CR7]

Horvat and Miller don't need new deals until Ferland's money comes off the books... The big question Rutherford has to answer is, is Brock worth 7.5M or do they trade his rights at the draft. 

[Junkyard Dog]

2 minutes ago, eeeeergh said:

I mean, its possible, but even so we're not talking about being 10m over the cap. Even if it takes 7m for Horvat and 8m for Miller, we can easily afford both and have room to spare without Pearsons contract.

Cap goes up by 1m
Luongo recapture gone (but partly taken over by Holtby/virtanen buyouts) 1.1m
Halak replaced by DiPietro (0.7m)
Sutter gone or remains on IR (0.6m)
We probably trade Pearson (3.2m)

Thats like 6.5m of space.

Boeser gets a 1.7m raise
Horvat gets 1.5m (to 7m)
Miller gets 2.75m (to 8m- unrealistic imo, i think he gets 7)

We're fine!
 

Rutherford talked about the holes on the roster, the fact that the cap makes it hard to fill those holes and that it could take some time to do so. Only real deals he could make are a dollar for dollar(1 for 1) right now and doesn't sound too keen on that being a long-term solution.

 

He mentioned the fact that he'd like to acquire younger players to fit this group and that he's fine with building a group that could take time to develop into a long-term successful team. Doesn't want to trade any high draft picks either.

 

 

This points towards us being sellers at some point. The team needs youngsters and cap space in order to fill the holes and reshape the roster.