[Discussion/Proposal] 4C

[HKSR]

I really like the look of our new lines, and having Petey, Bo, and Miller down the middle, it gives the Canucks one of the best trios of centres in the entire league.  Now all they are missing is a good 4C to really lockdown the middle of the ice. 

 

The guy I would love to see in the position would be Michael McLeod out of NJ.  A 6'2" RH centreman who is above 50% on the dot.  Great skater that plays hard.  Only 23 years old.

Doubt NJ would give him up without an overpayment, but maybe a package around Lockwood or Rathbone?

 

A shorter term solution would be Brassard out of Philly.  He's actually having a bounceback year.  Would cost a lot less to acquire, but would also not be a long term solution.

 

Who else would be on your shopping list?

[NewbieCanuckFan]

Any GM of worth shouldn't have to trade *ANY* assets to get a 4C (imho).

[DrJockitch]

We do need another right shot centre. The rest of that I am not sure about. 

[BCNate]

McLeod should be at the top of our list.  Defensively responsible RH C, who is young, physical and PK's.   

 

Rathbone would probably be the cost.  I like Rathbone, but given our LD, I'd make that move.

[Phil_314]

1 hour ago, BCNate said:

McLeod should be at the top of our list.  Defensively responsible RH C, who is young, physical and PK's.   

 

Rathbone would probably be the cost.  I like Rathbone, but given our LD, I'd make that move.

Same, if NJD does it I would be down.

Then just trade some combination of Lammikko/ Chiasson/ Hunt for a big-bodied 3rd pair LD.

[Elias Pettersson]

2 hours ago, Phil_314 said:

Same, if NJD does it I would be down.

Then just trade some combination of Lammikko/ Chiasson/ Hunt for a big-bodied 3rd pair LD.

Chiasson and Hunt have zero value.  We couldn't even get an AHL player for them...

[BigTramFan]

Got my eye on Acciari or Bjugstad. Both decent right handed 4C options that are UFA next season. Both a little older but fine for the next 2-3 years.

[eeeeergh]

1 hour ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Chiasson and Hunt have zero value.  We couldn't even get an AHL player for them...

We just need to teach Chiasson how to get some empty netters

[Elias Pettersson]

Michael McLeod would be a great 3C/4C. At 23 years old he fits right in with the core. He’s at 60.7% in face off % this year which is second in the entire NHL, only behind Patrice Bergeron. He’s also a good penalty killer. 
 

I also like Kevin Bahl. 6’6” left hand Dman who was born and raised in New Westminster. He’s 21 so again would be perfect to blend in with the younger core. 
 

These 2 guys would solve our 2 biggest issues right now.  If we are moving one of Miller or Boeser then we can use one of them to get a top 4 RHD.

 

I’d do Rathbone and McDonough for McLeod and Bahl. We’d probably need to add so I’d throw a 2nd rounder in there or another prospect. 

[Angry Goose]

interesting ideas in this thread. please make them happen

[mll]

2 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Michael McLeod would be a great 3C/4C. At 23 years old he fits right in with the core. He’s at 60.7% in face off % this year which is second in the entire NHL, only behind Patrice Bergeron. He’s also a good penalty killer. 
 

I also like Kevin Bahl. 6’6” left hand Dman who was born and raised in New Westminster. He’s 21 so again would be perfect to blend in with the younger core. 
 

These 2 guys would solve our 2 biggest issues right now.  If we are moving one of Miller or Boeser then we can use one of them to get a top 4 RHD.

 

I’d do Rathbone and McDonough for McLeod and Bahl. We’d probably need to add so I’d throw a 2nd rounder in there or another prospect. 

 

They fit NJDs' core too.  McLeod was 12th overall and fits their rebuild.  Rathbone and McDonough are further away and not as highly ranked.  It delays NJD taking a step forward vs simply keeping McLeod and Bahl. Doubt the 2nd entices them all that much.  NJD are trying to get out of their rebuild - that trade sets them back.

 

Targeting young players on rebuilding teams doesn't feel particularly logical.  They went into a rebuild to acquire those young players.  If they decide to move on at some point it's because they feel they are not likely to work out.

 

Edited December 15, 2021 by mll

[Elias Pettersson]

21 minutes ago, mll said:

 

They fit NJDs' core too.  McLeod was 12th overall and fits their rebuild.  Rathbone and McDonough are further away and not as highly ranked.  It delays NJD taking a step forward vs simply keeping McLeod and Bahl. Doubt the 2nd entices them all that much.  NJD are trying to get out of their rebuild - that trade sets them back.

 

Targeting young players on rebuilding teams doesn't feel particularly logical.  They went into a rebuild to acquire those young players.  If they decide to move on at some point it's because they feel they are not likely to work out.

 

I do agree with this.  However, it depends more on fit and how the other team evaluates your prospects.  Rathbone and McDonough are both from Boston.  They fit playing in the East.  They are also both 22, so they should be ready to make the jump to the NHL at the latest in 2023.  Bahl is a local Vancouver boy, so he fits playing in Vancouver.  

 

McLeod doesn't seem to produce alot of offence even though he was a 12th overall pick.  His ceiling is a 3C, but can also be a 4C.  McDonough looks like he can be a legit goal scorer in the NHL.  I would want to keep him but with Garland, Boeser, Podkolzin, Höglander and Klimovich, we have the wings covered.  We need a right hand C more than anything.  Bahl is a big Dman who can skate, but still hasn't been able to crack the New Jersey lineup.  They also have Luke Hughes coming up.  Rathbone may intrigue them.  They may want another puck mover to compliment Graves, Severson and Hamilton.  

 

Who knows.  Yes, it is youth for youth.  Not sure how else we are going to get guys in their early 20's without trading our top prospects.  Unless you trade a Miller or Boeser at the deadline to a contender.  But then you have to fit them under the cap, so that's always an issue.  Trading youth for youth has been done before.  JR may have something up his sleeve.

[mll]

6 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

I do agree with this.  However, it depends more on fit and how the other team evaluates your prospects.  Rathbone and McDonough are both from Boston.  They fit playing in the East.  They are also both 22, so they should be ready to make the jump to the NHL at the latest in 2023.  Bahl is a local Vancouver boy, so he fits playing in Vancouver.  

 

McLeod doesn't seem to produce alot of offence even though he was a 12th overall pick.  His ceiling is a 3C, but can also be a 4C.  McDonough looks like he can be a legit goal scorer in the NHL.  I would want to keep him but with Garland, Boeser, Podkolzin, Höglander and Klimovich, we have the wings covered.  We need a right hand C more than anything.  Bahl is a big Dman who can skate, but still hasn't been able to crack the New Jersey lineup.  They also have Luke Hughes coming up.  Rathbone may intrigue them.  They may want another puck mover to compliment Graves, Severson and Hamilton.  

 

Who knows.  Yes, it is youth for youth.  Not sure how else we are going to get guys in their early 20's without trading our top prospects.  Unless you trade a Miller or Boeser at the deadline to a contender.  But then you have to fit them under the cap, so that's always an issue.  Trading youth for youth has been done before.  JR may have something up his sleeve.

 

NJD is also trying to build a team - they have identified their core already and McLeod fits the group.  McLeod might not produce much offence but they too need bottom-6 Cs.  He's still young and developing and has been very solid on face-offs where they tend to struggle.  Don't see why they would part with him.  His game will normally continue to grow.  He's already a lineup regular.  

 

NJD targeted Bahl in the Hall trade with Fitzgerald explaining that they had scouted him extensively and will nicely fit their core.  Bahl is in his 2nd pro season and only 21 - needs some development time.  Rathbone is also not on the NHL roster and was sent to the AHL so he could grow his game. 

 

I am sure that NJD are going to look at some prospects and decide they won't make the show but I don't see them removing players they believe can be part of the team they are trying to build.  Moving McLeod creates a hole in their lineup.  

 

Youth for youth seems more when players need a change of scenery similar to the Juolevi or Gaudette trades.

 

[Bruce Boudreau]

6 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Michael McLeod would be a great 3C/4C. At 23 years old he fits right in with the core. He’s at 60.7% in face off % this year which is second in the entire NHL, only behind Patrice Bergeron. He’s also a good penalty killer. 
 

I also like Kevin Bahl. 6’6” left hand Dman who was born and raised in New Westminster. He’s 21 so again would be perfect to blend in with the younger core. 
 

These 2 guys would solve our 2 biggest issues right now.  If we are moving one of Miller or Boeser then we can use one of them to get a top 4 RHD.

 

I’d do Rathbone and McDonough for McLeod and Bahl. We’d probably need to add so I’d throw a 2nd rounder in there or another prospect. 

Have to disagree Vancouver is not exactly flush with extra young players or prospects especially on d.

 

Rathbone is their #1 prospect in terms of being closest to full time NHL duties.

 

Boudreau mentioned how outside of Quinn Hughes the Canucks lack a smooth skating d man who can carry the puck up ice and join the rush.

 

Rathbone has precisely this potential as an offensive d man.

 

He should be called up to the big club very soon in the New Year and stick the rest of the season for evaluation sakes on a permanent basis once the d core is healthy.

 

OEL-Myers

Hughes-Hamonic

Rathbone-Schenn

 

[IBatch]

1 hour ago, Chip Kelly said:

Have to disagree Vancouver is not exactly flush with extra young players or prospects especially on d.

 

Rathbone is their #1 prospect in terms of being closest to full time NHL duties.

 

Boudreau mentioned how outside of Quinn Hughes the Canucks lack a smooth skating d man who can carry the puck up ice and join the rush.

 

Rathbone has precisely this potential as an offensive d man.

 

He should be called up to the big club very soon in the New Year and stick the rest of the season for evaluation sakes on a permanent basis once the d core is healthy.

 

OEL-Myers

Hughes-Hamonic

Rathbone-Schenn

 

Bruce said this?   I've listened to most of what he's said and haven't heard that.    Maybe send the video link if you could.   Myers actually is way above the league average carrying the puck into the o-zone.     And OEL isn't a chump either.   I like Rathbone but he's not even close to as good as either OEL or Myers with the puck on his stick.   If he was he'd be in the NHL already and have a couple 30-50 point seasons. 

[Elias Pettersson]

6 hours ago, Chip Kelly said:

Have to disagree Vancouver is not exactly flush with extra young players or prospects especially on d.

 

Rathbone is their #1 prospect in terms of being closest to full time NHL duties.

 

Boudreau mentioned how outside of Quinn Hughes the Canucks lack a smooth skating d man who can carry the puck up ice and join the rush.

 

Rathbone has precisely this potential as an offensive d man.

 

He should be called up to the big club very soon in the New Year and stick the rest of the season for evaluation sakes on a permanent basis once the d core is healthy.

 

OEL-Myers

Hughes-Hamonic

Rathbone-Schenn

 

Poolman is playing like a top 4 Dman.  The chances of Rathbone taking his place in the lineup are less than zero. 
 

Both OEL and Myers can run a power play and push the puck up the ice. We need more physicality and truculence on the back end. Rutherford said he has holes to fill. It’s obvious what those holes are. A right hand C, left hand D, more speed and a little more truculence. 

[Bruce Boudreau]

1 hour ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Poolman is playing like a top 4 Dman.  The chances of Rathbone taking his place in the lineup are less than zero. 
 

Both OEL and Myers can run a power play and push the puck up the ice. We need more physicality and truculence on the back end. Rutherford said he has holes to fill. It’s obvious what those holes are. A right hand C, left hand D, more speed and a little more truculence. 

Anyone can play above their talent level for short spurts. Luke Schenn was also playing like a solid top 4 guy pre Covid positive. Neither is a long term top 4 fit.

 

Craig Button has mentioned numerous times the Canucks still need 2 more top 4 quality d man to be added to this d core.

 

Myers is paid like a top 4 guy but hasn't always played up to that level. As he gets on in years he would be more of a third pair guy on a true contending team.

6 hours ago, IBatch said:

Bruce said this?   I've listened to most of what he's said and haven't heard that.    Maybe send the video link if you could.   Myers actually is way above the league average carrying the puck into the o-zone.     And OEL isn't a chump either.   I like Rathbone but he's not even close to as good as either OEL or Myers with the puck on his stick.   If he was he'd be in the NHL already and have a couple 30-50 point seasons. 

OEL is not a pure offensive guy anymore as he ages and loses some of his mobility he will become more like the previous #23 in that he will be a shutdown guy first who can contribute the odd points. His offensive numbers are trending down over his past 2 seasons. Don't see him or Myers as natural offensive minded d's who can activate in the rush and carry the puck up ice.

 

Rathbone has shown in college and in the AHL that he is a quality puck mover and a very good skater.

 

Rathbone is still a rookie without even a full NHL season under his belt to get comfortable and show what he can do in Boudreau's system.

 

He hasn't gotten a fair look to decide to jettison him early like they did with Gustav Forsling.

 

The Canucks minor league teams have been a tire fire for a very long time now.

 

The longer a prospect stays on the Canucks AHL affiliate they start to regress more significantly and their chances at being an NHL impact regular dwindle.

 

Give Rathbone a fair shake before sticking him too long in the minors that will stunt his development long term as a player.

 

Jett Woo and Danilla Klimovich have been healthy scratched. Will Lockwood and Mikey DiPietro have not developed as quickly as expected in the minors.

 

The last guy they successfully developed on the farm was Jacob Markstrom!

 

You think they would be more careful with their top prospect in the organization right now.

 

If Rathbone is moved on too early without a significant improvement coming back in return they will be forced to reach for defenceman in the next few upcoming drafts,trades, and free agencies.

 

 

[canucklehead44]

How about Riley Nash? Was on waivers not too long ago.

 

When he was acquired by the leafs: "Riley Nash, acquired by TOR, is arguably the best shut-down fourth line centre in the NHL. Provides no offence whatsoever - nothing happens when he's on the ice for either team"

SCOUTING REPORT
Has decent size and the ability to play both wing and center. Displays some two-way acumen. Is pretty good on face-offs. Can kill penalties. Scores goals in bunches. Lacks consistency in all areas of the game, and he has a tendency to disappear from time to time. Isn't a great point producer in the NHL, so he needs to do the little things.

 

Why I like Nash:
- Right handed centre

- 68th percentile penalty killer

- Rock solid 5 on 5 defensive play

- 53.7% career faceoff percentage

- Decent size at 6'2

- Cheap salary, one year contract, next to nothing to acquire