Miller is a core player

[PetterssonOrPeterson]

I think he's one of the top power forwards in the league. Not just our team. In the entire league. 

Hands down the best move that Benning made during his tenure. 

 

I still value Boeser over him so if he doesn't command too too much money that would give us trouble with resigning guys like Bo and Brock, then definitely we should find a way to keep him. 

 

This team is in win now mode. The ownership wants that and the hockey ops have the same vision.

It's like everyone has a fear of players that are 30+ (Miller will be 29/30 when his contract is up?). We need experience and leadership which is what JT brings.

 

We need guys like Miller down the line for playoff runs anyways. A gritty power forward that has stellar hockey iq and good goalscoring ability. 

 

I don't think there's anyone that we can straight up acquire that would produce what he does for our team. Unless we're looking to stockpile on picks.

[PetterssonOrPeterson]

53 minutes ago, StanleyCupOneDay said:

This guy is the heart and soul of our team. Do whatever it takes to keep him.

He reminds me a lot of Kesler before he turned into a whiny b*tch that wanted out.

[*Buzzsaw*]

Of course he is... all of those trade whiners, just like the Brock Boeser trade whiners are confusing his real worth with the way he played under Green.

[cdgraham]

52 minutes ago, Canuck Surfer said:

I am the party pooper?  I would not have spent the draft capital we did to get Miller.  Nor OEL / Garland.

 

Nor would I be upset if one or more were moved on.  Build for when Petey Hughes & Boeser are in their prime.  Demko is already there, but still should be at a peak.

 

That said I cheer for them while they are here.

 

 

Also FYI you should check who is almost in top 10 in league scoring. Pretty sure that's worth the draft capital. 

 

He wouldn't be the forward to move on from if we are doing that 

[Drakrami]

Yeah I dont want to trade Miller too. Not to point out during our horrible slump, he was still producing at ppg pace even though the rest of his linemates sucked and even stole a couple of games all by himself like the one vs NYR. Fitting in 8-9 million under the cap for him will be tough though. He deserves something similar to Zibanejad's contract. Pettersson, Horvat, Boeser, Miller, we have to lose 1 in the next 2 years. 

Edited December 17, 2021 by Drakrami

[Canuck Surfer]

2 minutes ago, cdgraham said:

Also FYI you should check who is almost in top 10 in league scoring. Pretty sure that's worth the draft capital. 

 

He wouldn't be the forward to move on from if we are doing that 

Its not that Miller is not worth what we paid based on his performance?

 

Its that we are left without enough money, prospects or picks to continue to improve the team. Or even re-sign Miller, who may & likely will be UFA before we are a contender.     

[CanucksJay]

Loved watching the mic'd up video against Columbus. So good. 

Also super interesting to see it was BB calling the shots on the game winning PP goal by Horvat. 

Lol what locker room issues

[N4ZZY]

1 hour ago, HKSR said:

Honestly I don't think the big 4 are going anywhere.   We need to keep all of Petey, Boeser, Bo, and Miller.  None of them will make over $9m within the next few years, so it makes sense to build the forwards around them.

 

Petey

Miller

Bo

 

That's probably one of the best if not the best centre trios in the entire league.

I'm not sure how you keep all those guys though. 

 

Miller's going to want the max for what would be likely his last contract as he's entering his 30's. If he declines pretty quick, we're stuck with an anchor of a contract. 

 

 

[Coconuts]

1 hour ago, Odd. said:

There isn’t a single power forward as good as him in the league. Not a single one. And people still want to trade this guy becuz “he’s got value”.

 

I have a feeling we haven’t even seen the best of him yet. 

Wrong, as long as Ovi plays he's it. And yes, Ovi's as much as power forward as he is a sniper, physicality has always been a huge part of his game. 

[khay]

33 minutes ago, PetterssonOrPeterson said:

I think he's one of the top power forwards in the league. Not just our team. In the entire league. 

Hands down the best move that Benning made during his tenure. 

 

I still value Boeser over him so if he doesn't command too too much money that would give us trouble with resigning guys like Bo and Brock, then definitely we should find a way to keep him. 

 

This team is in win now mode. The ownership wants that and the hockey ops have the same vision.

It's like everyone has a fear of players that are 30+ (Miller will be 29/30 when his contract is up?). We need experience and leadership which is what JT brings.

 

We need guys like Miller down the line for playoff runs anyways. A gritty power forward that has stellar hockey iq and good goalscoring ability. 

 

I don't think there's anyone that we can straight up acquire that would produce what he does for our team. Unless we're looking to stockpile on picks.

He looked like Ryan Getzlaf tonight.

 

Obviously not as big and a bit faster. That line was dominating the boards and the puck and had a lot of zone time.

 

[N4ZZY]

15 minutes ago, Drakrami said:

Pettersson, Horvat, Boeser, Miller, we have to lose 1 in the next 2 years. 

Think it's either probably going to be Boeser or Miller. 

 

Boeser's QO is 7.5M. 

 

Miller's going to want to want at least what Brock is getting. At least. 

[J.I.A.H.N]

So, trying to pay league average for all 3 categories, looks something like this............................................................

 

Forwards...................50 Million

 

Defense.....................25 Million

 

Goalies.......................6.5 Million 

                                   ========

Total                          81.5 million

 

So, If we pay Miller, Horvat, Boeser and Pettersson all 7.5 million per x 7 years, we have 20 million to pay the next 9 forwards

Currently we are paying the other 9 forwards 16, million = 47 million

 

Currently we are paying  21 million for Hughes, OEL, and Myers

The other 3 are paid 6.3 for Hamonic, Poolman, and Schenn = 27.3 million

 

Goalies are costing us 6.5 million

 

Total..............................80.8 Million (sure the cap will go up 1 million a year, but only 1 million a year)

 

 

 

So how do we fill in a much needed RHD, get a defensive center, and what happens when in 2 years Hoglander, and Podkolzin come off their ELC's?

 

Again, the budget does not fit the players, and we are being held up by Demko to some extent, and the same CDCers, do not have the pertinence to build the team properly.

 

Yes, I love Miller as a player, but he will be 29 before next season, and he does not fit our core, and his next contract is too expensive for a 30 year old

 

Sell high and reap the rewards............sorry people.............nice player, but something has to give!

 

I am not saying what............you tell me!

[N4ZZY]

35 minutes ago, PetterssonOrPeterson said:

I think he's one of the top power forwards in the league. Not just our team. In the entire league. 

Hands down the best move that Benning made during his tenure. 

 

I still value Boeser over him so if he doesn't command too too much money that would give us trouble with resigning guys like Bo and Brock, then definitely we should find a way to keep him. 

 

This team is in win now mode. The ownership wants that and the hockey ops have the same vision.

It's like everyone has a fear of players that are 30+ (Miller will be 29/30 when his contract is up?). We need experience and leadership which is what JT brings.

 

We need guys like Miller down the line for playoff runs anyways. A gritty power forward that has stellar hockey iq and good goalscoring ability. 

 

I don't think there's anyone that we can straight up acquire that would produce what he does for our team. Unless we're looking to stockpile on picks.

I don't think the question is whether JT is a good player. He's obviously a good player. 

 

But the Canucks operate as well as any other team in the league, under a cap. How do we fit him under the cap? 

 

[Coconuts]

6 minutes ago, J.I.A.H.N said:

So, trying to pay league average for all 3 categories, looks something like this............................................................

 

Forwards...................50 Million

 

Defense.....................25 Million

 

Goalies.......................6.5 Million 

                                   ========

Total                          81.5 million

 

So, If we pay Miller, Horvat, Boeser and Pettersson all 7.5 million per x 7 years, we have 20 million to pay the next 9 forwards

Currently we are paying the other 9 forwards 16, million = 47 million

 

Currently we are paying  21 million for Hughes, OEL, and Myers

The other 3 are paid 6.3 for Hamonic, Poolman, and Schenn = 27.3 million

 

Goalies are costing us 6.5 million

 

Total..............................80.8 Million (sure the cap will go up 1 million a year, but only 1 million a year)

 

 

 

So how do we fill in a much needed RHD, get a defensive center, and what happens when in 2 years Hoglander, and Podkolzin come off their ELC's?

 

Again, the budget does not fit the players, and we are being held up by Demko to some extent, and the same CDCers, do not have the pertinence to build the team properly.

 

Yes, I love Miller as a player, but he will be 29 before next season, and he does not fit our core, and his next contract is too expensive for a 30 year old

 

Sell high and reap the rewards............sorry people.............nice player, but something has to give!

 

I am not saying what............you tell me!

Yup, agreed. I'll continue to take heat for it but I still see him as the odd guy out, and if we're out of the mix leading up to the deadline he should absolutely be on the table. He'd bring us a huge haul that would go towards balancing out the rest of the roster and stocking our prospect pool. I've been arguing this in the Miller thread, but liking JT at almost 29 isn't the same as liking Miller at 32 and on. If he ain't at the peak of his powers now he likely will be soon. 

 

I'd be looking to get younger, and I'd be looking to improve our pool. Maybe something like Schneider+ from NYR. 

 

Winning is fun, but we're not going to win every game, sooner or later this team will face adversity again and then we'll really see what we've got. We're a fringe playoff team at best right now, we ain't contenders. If we miss out on the playoffs, and it's still likely, we'll have a season of Miller left and I'm skeptical we'll be able to retain him for a contract that ain't absurd for someone who's almost 30. Dude's going to want to get paaaaaid on what'll be his last big contract. Sell high, a team can only allocate so much to it's top 6 before it begins hurting the rest of the roster.

Edited December 17, 2021 by Coconuts

[J.I.A.H.N]

3 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

Yup, agreed. I'll continue to take heat for it but I still see him as the odd guy out, and if we're out of the mix leading up to the deadline he should absolutely be on the table. He'd bring us a huge haul that would go towards balancing out the rest of the roster and stocking our prospect pool. I've been arguing this in the Miller thread, but liking JT at almost 29 isn't the same as liking Miller at 32 and on. If he ain't at the peak of his powers now he likely will be soon. 

 

I'd be looking to get younger, and I'd be looking to improve our pool. Maybe something like Schneider+ from NYR. 

 

Winning is fun, but we're not going to win every game, sooner or later this team will face adversity again and then we'll really see what we've got. We're a fringe playoff team at best right now, we ain't contenders. If we miss out on the playoffs, and it's still likely, we'll have a season of Miller left and I'm skeptical we'll be able to retain him for a contract that ain't absurd for someone who's almost 30. Dude's going to want to get paaaaaid on what'll be his last big contract. Sell high, a team can only allocate so much to it's top 6 before it begins hurting the rest of the roster.

Totally agree, and if Demko does not make the saves he is making, we are not 6-0 under BB or 8 of 9 over 9

 

He simply does not fit our core and will be too expensive.............especially at 32 or 33

 

Again a proper re-build isn't fast, it is thorough................we ain't there yet 

 

 

[N4ZZY]

7 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

Yup, agreed. I'll continue to take heat for it but I still see him as the odd guy out, and if we're out of the mix leading up to the deadline he should absolutely be on the table. He'd bring us a huge haul that would go towards balancing out the rest of the roster and stocking our prospect pool. I've been arguing this in the Miller thread, but liking JT at almost 29 isn't the same as liking Miller at 32 and on. If he ain't at the peak of his powers now he likely will be soon. 

 

I'd be looking to get younger, and I'd be looking to improve our pool. Maybe something like Schneider+ from NYR. 

 

Winning is fun, but we're not going to win every game, sooner or later this team will face adversity again and then we'll really see what we've got. We're a fringe playoff team at best right now, we ain't contenders. If we miss out on the playoffs, and it's still likely, we'll have a season of Miller left and I'm skeptical we'll be able to retain him for a contract that ain't absurd for someone who's almost 30. Dude's going to want to get paaaaaid on what'll be his last big contract. Sell high, a team can only allocate so much to it's top 6 before it begins hurting the rest of the roster.

Yea. I tend to agree with you in your assessment about Miller. 

 

Look. I like him as a player as well. He's the heart and soul of the team (this season), and he's been producing. But he's going to want to get paid as well right? And I think management probably knows that and is assuming that he's going to be asking for a pretty hefty raise from the 5.25M he's currently making. 

 

Is Bo going to take less than what he's currently making? Not likely. Probably 6.5-7M for the foreseeable future. That's going to bring Horvat well into his thirties. 

 

What about Petey? I mean, it looks like he's coming around offensively, and there's no question in my mind that he's going to produce for the rest of this bridge deal he's on. He's likely going to want to get paid accordingly as well. 

 

What about Brock? His QO is 7.5M. 

 

Your right in that, if we allocate so much of the money and cap to our top six, what about the rest of the roster? Do these guys want to win here in Van or what? 

 

[N4ZZY]

6 minutes ago, J.I.A.H.N said:

Totally agree, and if Demko does not make the saves he is making, we are not 6-0 under BB or 8 of 9 over 9

 

He simply does not fit our core and will be too expensive.............especially at 32 or 33

 

Again a proper re-build isn't fast, it is thorough................we ain't there yet 

 

 

Yes. But if the team's window is to "win now" then Miller fits the timeline doesn't he? 

 

Which means JR would be trading picks and prospects to bolster the line up to make deep runs in the playoffs. 

 

We'll have Pittsburgh's prospect pool, without the championship in a couple of years. 

 

We ain't Pitts. We don't have a generational talent like a Crosby or Malkin.

 

[Coconuts]

9 minutes ago, J.I.A.H.N said:

Totally agree, and if Demko does not make the saves he is making, we are not 6-0 under BB or 8 of 9 over 9

 

He simply does not fit our core and will be too expensive.............especially at 32 or 33

 

Again a proper re-build isn't fast, it is thorough................we ain't there yet 

 

 

Yup, Demko's def helped us out given how thin our D is right now. Happened tonight in the 2nd and 3rd, we won but we certainly didn't look great for much of the game. He's been on a heater, but he's masking some of our defensive play. Yes, the goaltender is part of the team like any other player but it's worth acknowledging. 

 

Miller would be great if we were on the cusp of contending, this team ain't a contender. Rutherford says it's a roster with holes, it is. The future is Pettersson, Hughes, Demko, Hoglander, and Podkolzin. Hopefully Horvat, maybe Boeser. I don't see the future being Miller, Myers, or Hamonic. The latter two will likely be gone in a year or two once their deals expire, Miller is likely traded imo. He's closest to his peak at almost 30, the rest of our core is younger and it's those players we should be building around. Ship him out, let him chase a cup, let him get paid, bring in a big haul. This is all my opinion, but I don't see his age and playing ability lining up with our window, which I think is at least 2-3 years away at the earliest.

 

It's tough, because I know a lot of fans love him as a player, but in my eyes no single player is more important than the team's future and competitive window. I don't care if folks agree with me on that, some won't, but that's how I see it. Could I end up being wrong? Absolutely, but if we miraculously pull a cup out of our ass I certainly won't be complaining. 

Edited December 17, 2021 by Coconuts

[Bobby James]

I think almost everyone would agree with the original post in regards to how good and important he is to the team. 

 

The only question that needs to be figured out still is the cap. I don't believe it will be possible to fit everyone in under the next contract. So I think the team will need to pick 2 of Miller, Boeser and Horvat. 

 

Horvat I think as your captain you have to continue with him, he also likely takes the best value contract out of the 3. 

 

So Boeser or Miller? Different players for sure, but both great although there is no doubt Miller has had an overall better season than Boeser this year. If I had to make the choice though, I think you gamble and go with Boeser. His age does unfortunately give an advantage over JT and I think Miller is literally in his prime right now. Which is amazing and he is playing so well for Vancouver, but I think Brock only gets better still and that fits with what this team is trying to become. 

 

I will say regardless of what decision is made and who is gone. We absolutely need to try and get value for the player (please no walking away for nothing). Picks and prospects are important if this organization wants to succeed over longer periods of time.  

[wildcam]

1 hour ago, khay said:

For sure.

 

But an 8 year deal is scary.

 

I wonder if Miller would do 5 years 40-45 mil, or about 8.5 mil per year for 5 years.

 

If he wants an 8 year deal, I think we need to stand firm at 7.5 mil.

 

Must re-sign him in the off season if the intention is to keep him. Or we must trade him. Can't let him walk to UFA.

 

At some point you have to make a hockey trade? Everyone knows we need a big RD man ?

we are up against cap and always will. We can’t keep all the top 7 players with salary cap not going up much in next 2–3 yrs.

.This summer 2022  - Boeser 7.5 million 

summer 2023 — 

Miller will be 30 wanting 7.5– 8 million X 5– 7yrs.. Lots to have invested.. Big decision in 2 yrs..

Horvat will be 28 — 6.7– 7.3 million X 5 -7yrs… Solid #2 centre

Hogland will be 23— 2.7–3.5 X 3 yrs