[Discussion] JT Miller, is he tradeable?

[Provost]

1 hour ago, N4ZZY said:

Yeah. Agree. I think if this was the last month, I’d agree with you about the playoff bar. It’s hard, because some of the teams above us are still above us, but they’re losing ground with respect to their games in hand, like Edmonton for example. If they don’t get their $&!# together, it’s very likely that we can overtake them, assuming that we can continue to play hot, which isn’t guaranteed. If we hadn’t had all these games postponed, then sure, I think there’s a good chance we could have overtaken the Oilers in the standings. 

 

But with all the stops, and postponements, I’m not sure. We will be entering into a really tough stretch, and we haven’t played a ton of games. Practiced a lot? Yes, but that only goes so far. The guys need games to be sharp, and they haven’t had much over the course of the last few weeks to be fair. So how sharp are they, as they enter into the dragon’s nest, if you will against teams like Nashville, Tampa Bay, Florida, etc, etc. Those are some really good teams. 

 

So I think that week is going to determine whether we will keep pace, or whether this season’s done for us. I say, by the end of January, early February, if we aren’t like 1 point away from a playoff spot, then we gotta be sellers at the deadline. Miller’s the one, in my mind, that’s gotta go, because while he’s a great player for us, and producing very well, Benning has handcuffed this team with the cap, even when he’s no longer the GM. And Miller, in my opinion, can garner us the greatest assets in return. I say we need to keep Horvat, and I think he’ll want to stay, especially if we’ve been playing and winning the way we have been under Boudreau. 

 

Boeser to me is 50/50. If he doesn’t agree to a long term deal, and wants to accept his QO, then we gotta also move him for assets. I’d love to keep Miller, and Brock, but at the end of the day, I’m not sure how we do that. 

 

For me it is if we are more than 4 points out at the end of January we make the moves.  
 

agreed on Boeser, he can sign now so tel him to sign a long term deal at reasonable dollars or get traded at the deadline.

 

Miller just gets you a haul… like as much or more than Eichel.  No injury worries, half the cap hit, and only two years of term so a contending team can accept that for a couple more kicks at the can with an aging core before rebuilding (like Pittsburgh or Boston).

 

if we want Horvat to agree to extend in the summer, the trades we make can’t be for pure futures and have to have immediate help coming.  Like a deal with Boston has has Carlo coming the other way or another trade with NHL ready young players.  We can also flip a 1st rounder we get for an upgraded roster player at the draft.

 

Of course we have to eventually play some games to find out… sigh

Edited January 8, 2022 by Provost

[BPA]

Make it a bigger trade....

 

Miller + Dickenson + Halak 

For

Schneider + Lundkvist + Kratsov + Chytil

 

[nameci]

I recognize that JT Miler is a team leader and one of the most productive Canucks this season.  His scoring touch, sandpaper playing style and energy that he brings to the team is undeniable.  That saiid, however, I am very much in favour of trading him while his value is so high.  The Canucks are a young, improving team, but to think that they are capable at this point of making a deep run in the playoffs,  is extremely hopeful.  When JT’s current contract runs out the Canucks will be left to decide to resign him or left him walk for nothing as a free agent.  If the decision is made to resign him, he will be looking for a massive payday (one poster suggested it might be as high as 8x8.5million).  Can we afford this and will he be worth the money towards the end of his contract?.  Why not trade him now when his value is at its highest?  Other posters have suggested Miller as the centerpiece of a trade for a package of  young talented players like Schneider, Carlo, or Boldy.  I think this is the more logical solution.  We save money, unless we have to take on some deadwood to equalize the capHit, we plug some holes in the roster, we get younger and we won’t have to complain about the exorbitant amount of money we have to pay JT in the declining, less productive years of his next contract.

[J.I.A.H.N]

11 hours ago, BPA said:

Make it a bigger trade....

 

Miller + Dickenson + Halak 

For

Schneider + Lundkvist + Kratsov + Chytil

 

I am taking this as a building year. we still have some things to iron out..........cap, and holes

 

My suggestions would be

 

Miller 50% for Schneider, Chytil and a 1st

 

and

 

Halak and Chiasson for Edmonton's 2022-2nd and 2023-2nd

 

 

IMO, this goes along way to filling our prospect pools, which we desperately need

 

That is enough cap savings to fill all our needs, IMO

[IBatch]

9 hours ago, J.I.A.H.N said:

I am taking this as a building year. we still have some things to iron out..........cap, and holes

 

My suggestions would be

 

Miller 50% for Schneider, Chytil and a 1st

 

and

 

Halak and Chiasson for Edmonton's 2022-2nd and 2023-2nd

 

 

IMO, this goes along way to filling our prospect pools, which we desperately need

 

That is enough cap savings to fill all our needs, IMO

Good post.   I'm happy with both targets (Carlo would probably be the safer bet)..also think PIT would be very interested in Miller, Malkin just isn't reliable health wise, and they are the hottest team in the league.   Nobody would be surprise if Crosby had a couple good runs left in him, or PIT for that matter, Letang is also killing it.   Have now idea what they have that would help fill that void (future C) or RHD ... but for sure they'd play ball.    A first, second and third in consecutive drafts is what Tatar for from Vegas with a year left on his deal...i'd think Miller would be worth two firsts, a second and a third just picks alone with 50% retention.    This would make it really hard for PIT succession planning, but two more cracks at a cup?   WSH too for the exact same reasons.  

[aGENT]

4 hours ago, IBatch said:

Good post.   I'm happy with both targets (Carlo would probably be the safer bet)..also think PIT would be very interested in Miller, Malkin just isn't reliable health wise, and they are the hottest team in the league.   Nobody would be surprise if Crosby had a couple good runs left in him, or PIT for that matter, Letang is also killing it.   Have now idea what they have that would help fill that void (future C) or RHD ... but for sure they'd play ball.    A first, second and third in consecutive drafts is what Tatar for from Vegas with a year left on his deal...i'd think Miller would be worth two firsts, a second and a third just picks alone with 50% retention.    This would make it really hard for PIT succession planning, but two more cracks at a cup?   WSH too for the exact same reasons.  

I don't think we can move Miller JUST for picks. Particularly late firsts (basically early seconds success-wise). I don't care how many they give us.

 

We need some tangible players/prospects coming back. And Pittsburgh don't really have much there.

 

I keep coming back to Chytil and Schneider + from the Rags.

 

The Caps at least have some notable (if not the most blue of chips) in McMichael (C), Lapierre (C) Fehervary (LD), Iorio (RD) etc. And we could take Lars Eller back (cap and C depth).

 

Edited January 9, 2022 by aGENT

[IBatch]

1 minute ago, aGENT said:

I don't think we can move Miller JUST for picks. Particularly late firsts (basically early seconds success-wise). I don't care how many they give us.

 

We need some tangible players/prospects coming back. And Pittsburgh didn't really have much there.

 

I keep coming back to Chytil and Schneider + from the Rags.

 

The Caps at least have some notable (if not the most blue of chips) in McMichael (C), Lapierre (C) Fehervary (LD), Iorio (RD) etc.

 

Me neither.   That said the picks would help the team later on when EP, QHs, Podz and Hogs are in their primes, that plus the cap space saved on Miller and his next deal....both ideas have merit.   Not to mention the picks themselves become bargaining chips ... a second for a Lumme anyone?   Wishful thinking i know, but it's happened before.  Is Schneider really that good?    Agree a late first isn't really much different then a second rounder.    At least they weren't in the 90's-2000's ... like to see a study comparing that to the 2010's, but can't find one.  

[aGENT]

7 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Me neither.   That said the picks would help the team later on when EP, QHs, Podz and Hogs are in their primes, that plus the cap space saved on Miller and his next deal....both ideas have merit.   Not to mention the picks themselves become bargaining chips ... a second for a Lumme anyone?   Wishful thinking i know, but it's happened before.  Is Schneider really that good?    Agree a late first isn't really much different then a second rounder.    At least they weren't in the 90's-2000's ... like to see a study comparing that to the 2010's, but can't find one.  

Yeah, I can't remember the exact break points but I think picks +/- 24-42'ish historically, have about the same value.

 

Schneider doesn't likely have big point production #1d upside, but a solid defensively, good skating, complementary offense guy... He's a pretty safe bet a as a good two way, top 4RD. 

 

Edited January 9, 2022 by aGENT

[J.I.A.H.N]

I think it all comes down to whether JR puts more importance to either........

 

1. Competing now for the cup, in which case we are buyers at the TDL, and I ask with what? And that flies in the face of what JR said when coming in............

 

or

 

2. JR is planning for us to compete in 2 years, when the holes are full, and then I ask how? Which can not be done by the draft, which will be 3 years, if successful.

 

 

So having said all that, the question is when is the window? And how do we fill the voids. IMO, Drafting does not get the players into place fast enough, and UFA's free agency is too expensive, not even considering the minimal cap space we have.

 

This brings us to considering trading 1 or more of 3 players. Boeser, Horvat, or Miller. IMO, Boeser does not bring enough to fix the holes we have. Would Boeser bring in a #2/3 RHD, well more in likely yes, but would he bring in much more? I would say no, not at his past and current stats.

 

Horvat, in the other hand, would most probably do that, A) because he is a 1B/2A center and B ) because of his face off efficiency, which puts him in a solid position for a decently long period of time. (6 to 8 years). i think most teams trading for Horvat would use him as a long term up grade, so most likely a teams, not so good 2nd line center comes back, along with possible #3 RHD, but that is about it! Maybe a pick, but not a high pick. (all because we would have to take their not so good, probably aging 2 line center.)

 

Miller is the other possibility, and most probable because, he brings the greatest return, and fits in with what JR said, which is he does not see us ready to compete year after years, with the current roster..........basically we are not complete.

 

Sorry Miller lovers.............Miller is the one that goes...........he is the oldest, with the greatest value..............it is sorta what we complained about over the years, with some of our stars. sell high on an aging star!

 

The Schneider, Chytil and a first for Miller in any form retained or not, fills all our voids now, and in the future. (aka all young assets)

 

 

 

 

Edited January 9, 2022 by J.I.A.H.N

[Alflives]

4 minutes ago, J.I.A.H.N said:

I think it all comes down to whether JR puts more importance to either........

 

1. Competing now for the cup, in which case we are buyers at the TDL, and I ask with what? And that flies in the face of what JR said when coming in............

 

or

 

2. JR is planning for us to compete in 2 years, when the holes are full, and then I ask how? Which can not be done by the draft, which will be 3 years, if successful.

 

 

So having said all that, the question is when is the window? And how do we fill the voids. IMO, Drafting does not get the players into place fast enough, and UFS free agency is too expensive, not even considering the minimal cap space we have.

 

This brings us to considering trading 1 or more of 3 players. Boeser, Horvat, or Miller. IMO, Boeser does not bring enough to fix the holes we have. Would Boeser bring in a #2/3 RHD, well more in likely yes, but would he bring in much more? I would say no, not at his past and current stats.

 

Horvat, in the other hand, would most probably do that, A) because he is a 1B/2A center and B ) because of his face off efficiency, which puts him in a solid position for a decently long period of time. (6 to 8 years). i think most teams trading for Horvat would use him as a long term up grade, so most likely a teams, not so good 2nd line center comes back, along with possible #3 RHD, but that is about it! Maybe a pick, but not a high pick. (all because we would have to take their not so good, probably aging 2 line center.)

 

Miller is the other possibility, and most probable because, he brings the greatest return, and fits in with what JR said, which is he does not see us ready to compete year after years, with the current roster..........basically we are not complete.

 

Sorry Miller lovers.............Miller is the one that goes...........he is the oldest, with the greatest value..............it is sorta what we complained about over the years, with some of our stars. sell high on an aging star!

 

The Schneider, Chytil and a first for Miller in any form retained or not, fills all our voids now, and in the future. (aka all young assets)

 

 

What about Crappo Kakko instead of Chytil?  

[J.I.A.H.N]

9 minutes ago, Alflives said:

What about Crappo Kakko instead of Chytil?  

Great potential, but does not fill the #3 center roll, and IMO, has too much potential upside for NYR's to give up A)Schneider who is our #1 target, Kakko, who has not been in the league long enough to really be proven he is not a #2 OVA drafted player, and a 1st..........(which I think will become a very good prospect in this years draft.) Note  tahn in most drafts #24 to 42 ish are all about the same level of player, but in this years draft, it is suppose to be a much deeper draft., so a later 1st, could have a much higher impact.

 

It is not that I do not like Kakko, I am just not sure they let Schneider and Kakko go, at one time, and in one trade. Chytil is starting to show he is a 3rd line center, with "SOME" #2 upside. But looking more a #3 center at the moment.

 

 

Edited January 9, 2022 by J.I.A.H.N

[Alflives]

7 minutes ago, J.I.A.H.N said:

Great potential, but does not fill the #3 center roll, and IMO, has too much potential upside for NYR's to give up A)Schneider who is our #1 target, Kakko, who has not been in the league long enough to really be proven he is not a #2 OVA drafted player, and a 1st..........(which I think will become a very good prospect in this years draft.) Note  tahn in most drafts #24 to 42 ish are all about the same level of player, but in this years draft, it is suppose to be a much deeper draft., so a later 1st, could have a much higher impact.

 

It is not that I do not like Kakko, I am just not sure they let Schneider and Kakko go, at one time, and in one trade. Chytil is starting to show he is a 3rd line center, with "SOME" #2 upside. But looking more a #3 center at the moment.

 

 

Is an iffy prospect, a third liner and a very late first (likely 20-30) enough return for Miller?  At this coming TDL whomever gets Miller will have him for two Cup runs, and on an amazing cap cost.  

Crappo or Laughing guy need to be in the deal.  

[higgyfan]

18 hours ago, J.I.A.H.N said:

I am taking this as a building year. we still have some things to iron out..........cap, and holes

 

My suggestions would be

 

Miller 50% for Schneider, Chytil and a 1st

 

and

 

Halak and Chiasson for Edmonton's 2022-2nd and 2023-2nd

 

 

IMO, this goes along way to filling our prospect pools, which we desperately need

 

That is enough cap savings to fill all our needs, IMO

I don't see the fit for Miller in NY.  They already have 2Cs(Zibanejab + Strome) and 2LW(Panerin + Kreider) that are very good players.  I suppose they could trade Strome at deadline to pick up the 1st and some death.  They don't look hungry enough to make the trade you suggest.  What they really need is a top line RW.

[Coconuts]

33 minutes ago, higgyfan said:

I don't see the fit for Miller in NY.  They already have 2Cs(Zibanejab + Strome) and 2LW(Panerin + Kreider) that are very good players.  I suppose they could trade Strome at deadline to pick up the 1st and some death.  They don't look hungry enough to make the trade you suggest.  What they really need is a top line RW.

Strome's a pending UFA though, and there've been rumours that the Rangers would like to trade him in the past. There's no guarantee they want to re-sign him, and we don't know what kind of number he'll be looking for but it'll certainly be a raise. Him and Miller are roughly the same age, one could argue that they could bring in Miller to supplant Strome. Plus, the Rangers were the team that drafted Miller, both sides would be very familiar with each other. 

 

Rangers are in a playoff spot, have a wealth of prospect depth, and are a team who's top players are at their peak or getting to it. Kreider and Pararin are 30, Zibanejed is 28, Strome is 28, Trouba's 27. Throw in their younger talent in Fox, Kaako, Lafreniere, Chytil, and Miller. Their goaltenders are 25 and 26. They could certainly do worse than being a team that makes a push to take a step forward. 

[Junkyard Dog]

2 hours ago, higgyfan said:

I don't see the fit for Miller in NY.  They already have 2Cs(Zibanejab + Strome) and 2LW(Panerin + Kreider) that are very good players.  I suppose they could trade Strome at deadline to pick up the 1st and some death.  They don't look hungry enough to make the trade you suggest.  What they really need is a top line RW.

Media outlets out of there already suggested that he's a player that would fit in with them really well. Strome isn't a long-term option and will likely walk this upcoming free agency. They'll have players they need to sign the next two off-seasons. Miller would fit in because he expires when a lot of those players need new deals and he comes in at a very friendly cap hit, even more so if we retain.

 

Rangers have more than enough assets and depth to trade for Miller and they were tied to Eichel before albeit with a different GM.

[J.I.A.H.N]

3 hours ago, higgyfan said:

I don't see the fit for Miller in NY.  They already have 2Cs(Zibanejab + Strome) and 2LW(Panerin + Kreider) that are very good players.  I suppose they could trade Strome at deadline to pick up the 1st and some death.  They don't look hungry enough to make the trade you suggest.  What they really need is a top line RW.

 

 

Hi Higgy

 

Well, that is one way to look at it and I do not disagree

 

But!

 

If you look at the age of Panarin, and some of their older players, I think they are there now, especially where they sit in the standings..............

 

Miller at 50%  is cheap and within their price range if they sign Fox to a bridge contract.....which would only have to be a 1 year deal

 

This would be 2 legitimate chances, IMO, with a deep roster.............Fox's bridge would not have to be small, just reduced

 

The reason, I do not disagree with you in part is because it totally depends on which way the NYR GM wants to go on it, and if Fox would help

 

That is a lot of "IF's" ! But, it would give NYR 2 solid chances with Miller who is top 10 in scoring and can play RW, if that is what they want

 

Personally, with how hard it is to get to the finals, and with the abundance of RHD they have, they do not give up much to improve their chances

 

considerably.

 

I would do it in a heart beat, and I think they will too!

 

 

Edited January 10, 2022 by J.I.A.H.N

[Junkyard Dog]

I would like to point out that the Colorado Avalanche traded Matt Duchene when it seemed like he was a key piece of their young core. It ended up being a major component of the team’s path to Cup contention.

 

It landed them Girard, 1st round pick that ended up being Byram, a 2nd(they flipped for a 3rd and 5th), a 3rd(they used to draft Steinburg), a backup G(Hammond) and two prospect(Bowers, Kamenev).

 

Avs pretty much got two young great top 4 defenseman in Byram/Girard and decent prospects in Bowers/Steinburg Annunen/Zhuravlyov(they got from flipping the 2nd)

 

It was a 3-way trade with Nashville that sent Turris to Nashville which is how the Avs got some extra pieces. Like Miller, Duchene had 2 years left on his contract. Miller is playing a lot better now than Duchene was then too.

 

Avs AGM and a guy who's name is tied to Canucks GM role Chris MacFarland was a part of the Avs when that trade went down. He's been credited with doing a lot of good things that helped the Avs jump to cup contention.

[Junkyard Dog]

Speaking of the Avs..

 

They're another team that could use Miller. Kadri may become unaffordable with having an insane career year and is too old to lock up long-term after this season and Miller comes in at a friendly cost. Both Miller and Johnson's contract ends the same year which is when they have to re-sign some guys like Byram, Compher, Newhook and Mackinnon. In a sense it would make excellent timing cap-wise and they've already set themselves up nicely moving forward cap-wise all things considered.

 

Their D-core is pretty locked up the next 3+ years with Makar/Girard/Byram/Toews.

 

They've got a couple good RD prospects too in Justin Barron(6'2'' two-way defenseman drafted 25th overall in 2020) and Drew Helleson(6'3'' defensive defenseman drafted 47th overall in 2019). 

 

They don't have a 1st or 2nd this year but they already have, considered by many, a top 10 prospect pool. Perhaps a couple good prospects, a player like Jost/Murray, and a 2023 pick could roughly be the makeup of a deal.

 

I could see them interested in Halak too and maybe perhaps one of our defenseman(Hamonic/Schenn?)

[IBatch]

8 hours ago, J.I.A.H.N said:

 

 

Hi Higgy

 

Well, that is one way to look at it and I do not disagree

 

But!

 

If you look at the age of Panarin, and some of their older players, I think they are there now, especially where they sit in the standings..............

 

Miller at 50%  is cheap and within their price range if they sign Fox to a bridge contract.....which would only have to be a 1 year deal

 

This would be 2 legitimate chances, IMO, with a deep roster.............Fox's bridge would not have to be small, just reduced

 

The reason, I do not disagree with you in part is because it totally depends on which way the NYR GM wants to go on it, and if Fox would help

 

That is a lot of "IF's" ! But, it would give NYR 2 solid chances with Miller who is top 10 in scoring and can play RW, if that is what they want

 

Personally, with how hard it is to get to the finals, and with the abundance of RHD they have, they do not give up much to improve their chances

 

considerably.

 

I would do it in a heart beat, and I think they will too!

 

 

Janis they've already signed Fox to a 9.5 x 7 year deal ... it starts next season.   That said they could definitely make a push to become a contender this year and next by adding Miller while their other wonder kids are on their ELCs-second contracts,  like ANA did with Getzlaf/Perry/Penner... Miller at 50% is just something teams can't pass up on.   It's a tough situation.   I'm with Provost, give the team a shot to make the playoffs.   If we are too far out then pull the plug - BB or Miller. 

[Ghostsof1915]

We only have two true centres on this team.

- Bo

- JT

 

Who takes draws? Unless you're getting good young centre's in return and a draft pick. The Canucks can't afford to trade him. Now if we get some talented centres from overseas from our prospect pool. Maybe next year.