[Proposal] Wild - Canucks Miller moved

[IBatch]

2 hours ago, gurn said:

Moving Miller to one team for picks is fine, since you can still trade those picks to some other team for immediate help.

Yes and let's not forget the cap space.   It gives you futures, trade options and cap space.   5.35 right away and saves you more later.    UFA years on marquee players usually isn't money well spent.   Sure there are some examples but there are way more examples the other way.   Evader Kane got what again?  What sort of idiot agent, wouldn't get Miller close to double digits?   First line C - check, first line LW check, intangibles - check.   After two three GMs not getting anything of value back really, other then maybe Markstrom - for 1.5 seasons, you'd think our fanbase would have a stronger stomach for this.   Sakic did, sending Barrie and Duchene out.   Don't expect that either but ... look at that. 

[Coconuts]

43 minutes ago, JM_ said:

 

That it really. Moving Miller does do that, along with the prospect and picks. 

 

I do wonder if they are going to start talking to Boeser's camp asap. Thats going to determine a lot of the next moves as well. 

 

 

You'd think that'd be the first pending negotiation they'd focus on yeah

 

And true that, getting assets back for Miller would be huge but cap space is often an overlooked asset in itself

[aGENT]

5 hours ago, Mike Vanderhoek said:

I would like to see more games before I write off the Islanders to be honest, that last wildcard spot in the East is quite attainable and could be reached if the Wings had a bad week and a half and the Isles got hot.

 

Let's take into consideration the horrible scheduling, injuries to start the season and like everyone else covid rearing its ugly head. With the team now allowed to play at home, they head out for a Western trip shortly then their schedule normalizes dramatically as in comfortably at home and in their time zone until another last western trip the end of February.

 

I think the Isles will be knocking on the door to get into the Playoffs, their steady and grade A duo of Lamorello and Trotz can right the ship if anyone can, Pulock is close to returning as well.

 

My point is I am sure the Isles are still in the mindset of buying mode, but Lou is shrewd and his additions of Chara and Parise have mostly gone under the radar but were big adds for the team from last season, I would suspect they don't pay the ask on a Miller but if we are talking about would a move make sense for the Canucks, absolutely for both sides. I bet Dobson is not an option but he and Bellows would look pretty sweet in Vancouver. I just don't see the Isles moving one of their young dmen.

Far from writing them off. I agree, I've got more faith they turn around their season and 'sneak in', than say the Canucks.

 

In which case a potential Miller/Dobson trade might make even more sense this season. Especially as they get Pulock back. Pulock-Mayfield is a pretty damn solid 1st and 2nd RD (and pushes Dobson to 3rd). Adding Miller to their forwards for TWO playoff runs would be HUGE for them. Dobson doesn't probably do as much the next two years in chasing a cup. All about windows and timing...

 

As for not moving one of their young D. You've got to pay to play. Miller isn't going to be cheap to acquire if they do indeed want him.

[Junkyard Dog]

15 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Far from writing them off. I agree, I've got more faith they turn around their season and 'sneak in', than say the Canucks.

 

In which case a potential Miller/Dobson trade might make even more sense this season. Especially as they get Pulock back. Pulock-Mayfield is a pretty damn solid 1st and 2nd RD (and pushes Dobson to 3rd). Adding Miller to their forwards for TWO playoff runs would be HUGE for them. Dobson doesn't probably do as much the next two years in chasing a cup. All about windows and timing...

 

As for not moving one of their young D. You've got to pay to play. Miller isn't going to be cheap to acquire if they do indeed want him.

They likely wouldn't give up Dobson or Pulock. Both are top 4 RD already and Dobson's only 22. Islander's are also more forward heavy and light on D. They've lost guys like Leddy and Toews over the years without credible replacements save for Dobson's development this year. Their D-core could be considered weaker than ours considering they don't have much outside Pelech, Dobson and Pulock.

 

Their biggest problem this year is forwards with cap tied up in forwards having off-starts and injuries to the key players. Walhstrom and Dobson have been their few bright spots this year.

 

 

[mll]

3 minutes ago, Junkyard Dog said:

They likely wouldn't give up Dobson or Pulock. Both are top 4 RD already and Dobson's only 22. Islander's are also more forward heavy and light on D. They've lost guys like Leddy and Toews over the years without credible replacements save for Dobson's development this year. Their D-core could be considered weaker than ours considering they don't have much outside Pelech, Dobson and Pulock.

 

Their biggest problem this year is forwards with cap tied up in forwards having off-starts and injuries to the key players. Walhstrom and Dobson have been their few bright spots this year.

 

 

Trotz identified their depleted D-corps as the main reason of their struggles this season.  Talked of how everything starts with the defence where they are the ones to break the puck out so when the D-corps is hit there's no real way to compensate.  He also praised Dobson.  Dobson was the reason Lamoriello gave for moving Toews so hard to imagine he would want to move him when Trotz identifies defence as their weakness and sounds pleased with Dobson's progress.   

 

Trotz also hinted at healthy scratching Palmieri, who makes 5M, when he comes off IR because they have others up front playing well.  

[JM_]

1 hour ago, IBatch said:

Brock Boeser can sign anything before the end of the season and make his qualifying offer go away.   He hasn't earned it yet.   At least not on a long term deal.   Seemed to be on the right track last year... this year?   All over the place.   Id rather have a vet like Patches anyday at that price.  Medium term - guaranteed blue chip.    Top ten in goal scoring since he joined the league.   It's a bridge deal, he bet on himself - and is losing. 

I thought it was Jan 1st?

 

For me Brock is a safe bet. If he was willing to do something like an 8 year, 50 mil total deal I'd be happy. He's a great person, team loves him, and hes skilled. I think he'd go under his QO for a max term deal since the end of it will be more than he'd earn then.

[JM_]

1 hour ago, Coconuts said:

You'd think that'd be the first pending negotiation they'd focus on yeah

 

And true that, getting assets back for Miller would be huge but cap space is often an overlooked asset in itself

Burke always talked about the value of cap space and "letting guys walk for nothing" - its not nothing, its incredibly valuable cap space.

[Junkyard Dog]

2 minutes ago, mll said:

Trotz identified their depleted D-corps as the main reason of their struggles this season.  Talked of how everything starts with the defence where they are the ones to break the puck out so when the D-corps is hit there's no real way to compensate.  He also praised Dobson.  Dobson was the reason Lamoriello gave for moving Toews so hard to imagine he would want to move him when Trotz identifies defence as their weakness and sounds pleased with Dobson's progress.   

 

Trotz also hinted at healthy scratching Palmieri, who makes 5M, when he comes off IR because they have others up front playing well.  

Pulock's been out with injury and hasn't played since November 15th. They're so frail at D if any of Pelech, Dobson, Pulock get hurt they are gonna reel from it as we've seen.

 

I could imagine them looking to eventually add more to their D-core rather than their forward group but IDK what their plans are the rest of this season. They've got quite a bit of money tied up in forwards/G for the next little bit and will have some players needing re-signing soon.

[aGENT]

46 minutes ago, Junkyard Dog said:

They likely wouldn't give up Dobson or Pulock. Both are top 4 RD already and Dobson's only 22. Islander's are also more forward heavy and light on D. They've lost guys like Leddy and Toews over the years without credible replacements save for Dobson's development this year. Their D-core could be considered weaker than ours considering they don't have much outside Pelech, Dobson and Pulock.

 

Their biggest problem this year is forwards with cap tied up in forwards having off-starts and injuries to the key players. Walhstrom and Dobson have been their few bright spots this year.

 

 

Their top 6 is lacking. Has been for years. You're also forgetting Mayfield (and Chara) on D.

 

In no way am I suggesting Pulock. Great player but not a fit for our timeline anyway.

 

They've also been rumored to be in on Chychrun.

 

A top 4 of:

 

Pelech, Pulock

Chychrun, Mayfield 

 

...is in no way lacking.

Edited January 1, 2022 by aGENT

[Junkyard Dog]

1 minute ago, aGENT said:

Their top 6 is lacking. Has been for years. You're also forgetting Mayfield (and Chara) on D.

 

In no way am I suggesting Pulock. Great player but not a fit for our timeline anyway.

If their top 6 is lacking their D-core is utter garbage. Chara is old and Mayfield is under the same scope as Poolman/Hamonic and are not on the same level as Dobson, Pulock and Pelech. Neither are long-term solutions. One of Pelech, Pulock or Dobson get hurt than they struggle which is evident with this year with Pulock having not played since November 15th.

 

Their D-core is weaker than ours and we even have better depth when both teams are healthy.

 

Even their coach points toward their D-core being the main issue of their struggles

[aGENT]

4 hours ago, Junkyard Dog said:

If their top 6 is lacking their D-core is utter garbage. Chara is old and Mayfield is under the same scope as Poolman/Hamonic and are not on the same level as Dobson, Pulock and Pelech. Neither are long-term solutions. One of Pelech, Pulock or Dobson get hurt than they struggle which is evident with this year with Pulock having not played since November 15th.

 

Their D-core is weaker than ours and we even have better depth when both teams are healthy.

 

Even their coach points toward their D-core being the main issue of their struggles

How would we do long term without Hughes or OEL?

 

How would Tampa do without Hedman long term?

 

Boston without McAvoy?

 

Yeah Pulock, their best D, has been out and they've correspondingly struggled (Barzal had been subpar as well and had little F support around him. Mayfield, which you've poo-pooed is playing above Dobson BTW.

Edited January 1, 2022 by aGENT

[Junkyard Dog]

21 minutes ago, aGENT said:

How would we do long term without Hughes or OEL?

 

How would Tampa do without Hedman long term?

 

Boston without McAvoy?

 

Yeah Pulock, their best D, has been out and they've correspondingly struggled (Barzal had been subpar as well and had little F support around him. Mayfield, which you've poo-pooed is playing above Dobson BTW.

Pulock's hurt so Mayfield/Dobson have to make up the time. Dobson is averaging more ice-time per game. Dobson only has 100 games experience to Mayfield's 300+. I reckon Mayfield is being relied on more defensively with Pelech given Dobson's inexperience(he's with the vet Chara). 

 

Trotz said d-corp was the biggest reason why they are where they are. Trade of Toews were made because Dobson was stepping up. They've also lost Leddy recently. Losing another top 4 D when they actually need one wouldn't be the right move.

 

5 hours ago, mll said:

Trotz identified their depleted D-corps as the main reason of their struggles this season.  Talked of how everything starts with the defence where they are the ones to break the puck out so when the D-corps is hit there's no real way to compensate.  He also praised Dobson.  Dobson was the reason Lamoriello gave for moving Toews so hard to imagine he would want to move him when Trotz identifies defence as their weakness and sounds pleased with Dobson's progress.   

 

Trotz also hinted at healthy scratching Palmieri, who makes 5M, when he comes off IR because they have others up front playing well.  

 

You said they're interested in Chychrun which makes sense considering he's around the same age as Dobson and they need to add a defenseman on top of what they already have.

 

Pelech 27 Pulock 27

Chychrun 23 Dobson 22

 

This would set them up for a long time.

[IBatch]

6 hours ago, JM_ said:

I thought it was Jan 1st?

 

For me Brock is a safe bet. If he was willing to do something like an 8 year, 50 mil total deal I'd be happy. He's a great person, team loves him, and hes skilled. I think he'd go under his QO for a max term deal since the end of it will be more than he'd earn then.

I'm not sure anymore lol, thought we had until the end of this season to re-sign him without having to start with his qualifying offer.    Do know we can also use arbitration, and start with 85% of his last year of the deal, which works out to 6.35, so that would give the GM some options.   Brock started slow but is coming on, and career PPG puts him in the 7 territory on a term deal.  7.5?  Seems too much, he hasn't really earned that yet.   At least we'd be buying his best UFA years though, even on an 8 year deal.   Completely different ball of wax then Miller.   Not sure we can afford all three (Horvat).    Or we should be trying too either.    Oh and yes i'd also be stoked if we could get him for 8 years at 50 too...7 and change is fair for both sides.  

Edited January 1, 2022 by IBatch

[aGENT]

1 hour ago, Junkyard Dog said:

Pulock's hurt so Mayfield/Dobson have to make up the time. Dobson is averaging more ice-time per game. Dobson only has 100 games experience to Mayfield's 300+. I reckon Mayfield is being relied on more defensively with Pelech given Dobson's inexperience(he's with the vet Chara). 

 

Trotz said d-corp was the biggest reason why they are where they are. Trade of Toews were made because Dobson was stepping up. They've also lost Leddy recently. Losing another top 4 D when they actually need one wouldn't be the right move.

 

 

You said they're interested in Chychrun which makes sense considering he's around the same age as Dobson and they need to add a defenseman on top of what they already have.

 

Pelech 27 Pulock 27

Chychrun 23 Dobson 22

 

This would set them up for a long time.

So would that same D core subbing in Mayfield while adding Miller to their F group.

[IBatch]

9 hours ago, aGENT said:

Far from writing them off. I agree, I've got more faith they turn around their season and 'sneak in', than say the Canucks.

 

In which case a potential Miller/Dobson trade might make even more sense this season. Especially as they get Pulock back. Pulock-Mayfield is a pretty damn solid 1st and 2nd RD (and pushes Dobson to 3rd). Adding Miller to their forwards for TWO playoff runs would be HUGE for them. Dobson doesn't probably do as much the next two years in chasing a cup. All about windows and timing...

 

As for not moving one of their young D. You've got to pay to play. Miller isn't going to be cheap to acquire if they do indeed want him.

We could retain on Miller for them, and give them Poolman too.  Or Burroughs or at least some form of depth for their run.   A Dobson Miller trade is probably wishful thinking, but you just never do know .... now i'd say Bouchard in EDM instead - but that trades too substantial in our own division with our cycle and theirs maybe 2-3 years apart.    Also bring that up because - well you know, it's Bouchard lol. 

[aGENT]

8 hours ago, IBatch said:

We could retain on Miller for them, and give them Poolman too.  Or Burroughs or at least some form of depth for their run.   A Dobson Miller trade is probably wishful thinking, but you just never do know .... now i'd say Bouchard in EDM instead - but that trades too substantial in our own division with our cycle and theirs maybe 2-3 years apart.    Also bring that up because - well you know, it's Bouchard lol. 

[IBatch]

11 minutes ago, aGENT said:

You'd be pleased to know, he has 19 points in 31 games, is plus 7 and of course he's a RHD.   16 of those are even strength including 6 goals ... in 52 games he's scored 25 points not too shabby, plus 7 overall - Barrie gets the main PP time (20 even strength points puts him in very good company so far based on games played) He's 53.9% even strength possession metrics so far. TOI is top four/pairing 5 x 5 this year 21:15 minutes 

 

Dobson has 33 points in 105 games, 23 even strength points.  1/3 almost on the PP...his even strength possession metrics is 48.3% ...  TOI is less 5 x 5 20:12 overall this year.    So far this year (and yes his team is suffering but still he's a part of that) 12 points and 4 of those, or like his career average so far, 1/3 on the PP, he's a plus 2.    

 

So maybe Bouchard isn't that bad after all.  Also Dobson is heating up lately, scoring 5 of his 12 points, in the last 5 games - Bouchard scoring four.   For sure Bouchard is being groomed for more later, but he's putting up points 5 x 5 which is impressive. 

 

Just for further reference, QH's has 14 even strength points this year.   Gets a lot of his on the PP or 4/4, 3/3...and yes i get the small sample size and no i wouldn't trade QHs for either of these guys.   

[aGENT]

30 minutes ago, IBatch said:

You'd be pleased to know, he has 19 points in 31 games, is plus 7 and of course he's a RHD.   16 of those are even strength including 6 goals ... in 52 games he's scored 25 points not too shabby, plus 7 overall - Barrie gets the main PP time (20 even strength points puts him in very good company so far based on games played) He's 53.9% even strength possession metrics so far. TOI is top four/pairing 5 x 5 this year 21:15 minutes 

 

Dobson has 33 points in 105 games, 23 even strength points.  1/3 almost on the PP...his even strength possession metrics is 48.3% ...  TOI is less 5 x 5 20:12 overall this year.    So far this year (and yes his team is suffering but still he's a part of that) 12 points and 4 of those, or like his career average so far, 1/3 on the PP, he's a plus 2.    

 

So maybe Bouchard isn't that bad after all.  Also Dobson is heating up lately, scoring 5 of his 12 points, in the last 5 games - Bouchard scoring four.   For sure Bouchard is being groomed for more later, but he's putting up points 5 x 5 which is impressive. 

 

Just for further reference, QH's has 14 even strength points this year.   Gets a lot of his on the PP or 4/4, 3/3...and yes i get the small sample size and no i wouldn't trade QHs for either of these guys.   

That's great and all but has he learned to skate faster yet?

[Elias Pettersson]

We're not trading JT Miller...

[komodo0921]

3 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

We're not trading JT Miller...

I wouldn't go that far.

JR knows that the current surge of success will, eventually come to an end (perhaps it just did with the loss to LA). 

He knows that The Vancouver Canucks are a very flawed team and that changes have to be made in order to achieve the goal of a championship.

At this point, I think anything's still on the table, including any young players he doesn't see as long term fits for this club.

JTM's prime to get us a few high-end pieces for long-term success.

Short-term loss for long-term gains.

As for the proposal, I see it as way too rich for any team to agree on.

If Eichel could fetch that many pieces, JTM definitely isn't going to.

Imo, dealing with Minny offers the opportunity to gain player who bring a lot of untapped potential that could turn into steals and will bring some, much needed, youthful aggression.

Jordan Greenway, Ryan O'Rourke, and their 1st rnd pick 2022.for JTM.

This is a good deal for both sides.

They get a player who's ready to win now and one they can resign when the time comes.

We get a, much needed, drop in payroll, a massive winger who's yet to fully realize his potential, a right-side defensive prospect, who could turn into an effective partner for Hughes, and the, all important, 1st round pick which is always wanted in such dealings. 

Both players we get bring much needed physicality and size and the possibility of much more.

Even if they are simply great depth players who play a support roll, they are still the types of players needed to win championships.

Imo, we still win.