[Rumour] Arizona looking to still move Chychrun, Kessel and Crouse?

[BlakeQuinnAndEggs]

27 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said:

Benning traded the last two year's first round picks, plus lost Juolevi, Dahlen, Gaudette, Gadjovich, Lind and MacEwen.  The prospect pool is pretty sad again.

 

I believe Rutherford wants draft picks and young players, but he also wants to make the playoffs every year. Tough job ahead. Can't do that with a soft roster, though, so I'm thinking he may trade out the less physical, if you will. (guys that may not be built for playoffs, and who haven't been producing like they should).  

 

Pettersson

Hoglander

Rathbone

Highmore and/or Motte

 

They're going to have to make some really tough decisions, but it'll be what's best for the team. 

 

I know you have to give to get, but we know first hand that Motte is a playoff performer and Hoglander might be smallish but he's built like a train, both players don't really fit the mold of the narrative of your post.

 

I personally hope we keep both Hog and Motte

[mll]

17 minutes ago, EternalCanuckFan said:

Crouse would be an intriguing add but in terms of roster composition, hard to see where he fits.  Given Dickinson's use as a winger so far, if ARI likes him then maybe there could be a deal involving Dickinson for Crouse? I strongly doubt 1-for-1 would enough to pique Arizona's interest.  Also, my recollection is that Crouse, while a good skater for his size, isn't as good a skater as Dickinson and is less versatile positionally (although he does play PK and PP).  He's going to be due a fair pay raise as well if he continues his scoring pace for the remainder of the season.

 

My guess is Crouse gets traded to a contender with expiring contracts this summer for futures.  I would be surprised if a team was willing to give up a 1st for Crouse, but if he keeps up his scoring pace, then his acquisition cost might rise to that level - true power forwards with a scoring touch are still very rare.

Armstrong talks of a scorched earth rebuild - says they want to be great and the only way to do it is through the draft.   They have also told teams that they are willing to leverage their cap space for futures.  Hard to see a deal going down between both teams.

 

Edited January 9, 2022 by mll

[Coconuts]

30 minutes ago, grandmaster said:

The prospect pool you mentioned are not anything special.

 

The 2 firsts we traded were excellent trades. None of that is sad.

 

I would trade for Miller, Garland and OEL for two firsts over and over again!

Thing is, while said trades were good for the roster, they really hurt our prospect pool, both things can be simultaneously true 

 

Trading out multiple top picks catches up with a team, competing is a juggling act and while you've got to worry about the main roster you've always got to be building that next wave too

 

Most of our top talent has graduated, and while that’s great for the roster it does leave those questioning our current prospect depth with legitimate concerns as you need to continually draft and integrate prospects into the roster to have sustainable success

Edited January 9, 2022 by Coconuts

[higgyfan]

38 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

Thing is, while said trades were good for the roster, they really hurt our prospect pool, both things can be simultaneously true 

 

Trading out multiple top picks catches up with a team, competing is a juggling act and while you've got to worry about the main roster you've always got to be building that next wave too

 

Most of our top talent has graduated, and while that’s great for the roster it does leave those questioning our current prospect depth with legitimate concerns as you need to continually draft and integrate prospects into the roster to have sustainable success

I agree with much of what you're saying here, Coco.  I would only disagree with the Miller trade. JT has blossomed into a top 6C forward who brings so much more than just his dazzling stats.  He will be a force in the playoffs for any contending team and still has another year on a cheap contract.

 

In a trade, he will garner 1st(late round)+decent player(3C)+promising prospect(RD) or similar variation.  

 

Unfortunately, trading Miller will probably have a negative effect on our team.  His presence has a huge impact

on his teammates and he has proven to be a player that can carry his team on his back.  Mr. Clutch is he.

 

[Elias Pettersson]

4 hours ago, coryberg said:

Haha, a deal "involving" Pearson for cap purposes.  Obviously we would need to add picks or prospects ON TOP of Pearson...

[Coconuts]

24 minutes ago, higgyfan said:

I agree with much of what you're saying here, Coco.  I would only disagree with the Miller trade. JT has blossomed into a top 6C forward who brings so much more than just his dazzling stats.  He will be a force in the playoffs for any contending team and still has another year on a cheap contract.

 

In a trade, he will garner 1st(late round)+decent player(3C)+promising prospect(RD) or similar variation.  

 

Unfortunately, trading Miller will probably have a negative effect on our team.  His presence has a huge impact

on his teammates and he has proven to be a player that can carry his team on his back.  Mr. Clutch is he.

 

It's true, any team that acquires him will be getting good value, which is why it's so important that if he does end up being moved that JR and co find a way to get full value for him. It's also true that the teams acquiring him will likely be giving up later picks, but the pick we wound up trading for Miller in the first place also wound up being 20th overall and used by the Devils at the draft. If we end up with a similar pick it's almost a wash, with assets on top of said pick. As for the return, I think it's guaranteed we'd have to have a pick back for Miller but the rest is less certain, JR's made it known that he wants to get younger in trades so it may very well just be picks/prospects if we were to move Miller, I'm not sure he'd be looking for a roster player unless it was necessary to make the cap work. Not when doing so might diminish the sort of prospect he gets back. 

 

There's no denying that we've no way of immediately replacing Miller, the reasons he's valuable to other teams are the same reasons he's valuable to us. He's a helluva player. But one has to give to get, and like I've mentioned in the past, I don't see why we couldn't be competitive without him. Our top six ain't awful, our D and bottom six could certainly use some work. And an overlooked asset we'd also get back in a trade would be cap space, and considering how capped out we've been that's no small thing. There's also no reason a Miller trade has to happen in a vacuum, if he's shipped out we may very well see Pearson go too. Who knows, if we move out cap and allocate it properly we could very well have a more well rounded roster next season. But yeah, our top six would certainly take a hit. Thing is, if this team's strength is currently anything it's likely it's top six. We ain't moving Demko or Hughes, if moves are made to upgrade the rest of the roster of free up cap it'll likely involve our top six. 

 

But all that being said, there's nothing wrong with disagreeing with a Miller trade. I can make all the arguments I want, map things out in a way that makes the most sense to me, we all can; but realistically we're just speculating. How we do over this next month likely dictates whether we see bodies moved out at all. How this season goes from here on out is on the guys in the room, if they want to go for the playoffs it's their job to convince management that letting the string play out is the right move. They'll need to keep winning, they'll need the teams in front of them to lose, and they'll need a fair bit of luck. 

 

 

Edited January 9, 2022 by Coconuts

[higgyfan]

26 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

It's true, any team that acquires him will be getting good value, which is why it's so important that if he does end up being moved that JR and co find a way to get full value for him. It's also true that the teams acquiring him will likely be giving up later picks, but the pick we wound up trading for Miller in the first place also wound up being 20th overall and used by the Devils at the draft. If we end up with a similar pick it's almost a wash, with assets on top of said pick. As for the return, I think it's guaranteed we'd have to have a pick back for Miller but the rest is less certain, JR's made it known that he wants to get younger in trades so it may very well just be picks/prospects if we were to move Miller, I'm not sure he'd be looking for a roster player unless it was necessary to make the cap work. Not when doing so might diminish the sort of prospect he gets back. 

 

There's no denying that we've no way of immediately replacing Miller, the reasons he's valuable to other teams are the same reasons he's valuable to us. He's a helluva player. But one has to give to get, and like I've mentioned in the past, I don't see why we couldn't be competitive without him. Our top six ain't awful, our D and bottom six could certainly use some work. And an overlooked asset we'd also get back in a trade would be cap space, and considering how capped out we've been that's no small thing. There's also no reason a Miller trade has to happen in a vacuum, if he's shipped out we may very well see Pearson go too. Who knows, if we move out cap and allocate it properly we could very well have a more well rounded roster next season. But yeah, our top six would certainly take a hit. Thing is, if this team's strength is currently anything it's likely it's top six. We ain't moving Demko or Hughes, if moves are made to upgrade the rest of the roster of free up cap it'll likely involve our top six. 

 

But all that being said, there's nothing wrong with disagreeing with a Miller trade. I can make all the arguments I want, map things out in a way that makes the most sense to me, we all can; but realistically we're just speculating. How we do over this next month likely dictates whether we see bodies moved out at all. How this season goes from here on out is on the guys in the room, if they want to go for the playoffs it's their job to convince management that letting the string play out is the right move. They'll need to keep winning, they'll need the teams in front of them to lose, and they'll need a fair bit of luck. 

 

 

However it plays out, it sure is a lot more fun than waiting to see if the '22 pick is 5th overall or turns into 8th overall due to the NHL f#+^%$@ lotto.

[Coconuts]

11 minutes ago, higgyfan said:

However it plays out, it sure is a lot more fun than waiting to see if the '22 pick is 5th overall or turns into 8th overall due to the NHL f#+^%$@ lotto.

Oh no doubt, at least it's been entertaining again 

 

I was advocating to replace Green with Boudreau too, so seeing him have success is admittedly a little nicer 

 

As for the lottery, if we ever win it and actually jump up spots during my life time I'll be shocked, and I see that being 31 

[NMHockey]

Raymond, Ballard, 1st 

 

Get it done POHO JR

[KKnight]

I would love to have Crouse on this team, but they're surely going to ask for too much. 

[Warhippy]

If I'm wheeling and dealing it looks like this

 

To NYR: JT Miller 5th round pick

 

To VAN: 2022 1st 2023 2nd, Schneider

 

To ARI: 2022 1st (NYR) DiPietro 2022 2nd (van) 2023 2nd (NYR)

 

To VAN: J Chychrun

 

Arizona wants futures.  Lots of em.  Unless we're trading fir futures to give them we're not in the conversation.  So any movement to get Chychrun involves us finding those futures first.

[shiznak]

41 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

If I'm wheeling and dealing it looks like this

 

To NYR: JT Miller 5th round pick

 

To VAN: 2022 1st 2023 2nd, Schneider

 

To ARI: 2022 1st (NYR) DiPietro 2022 2nd (van) 2023 2nd (NYR)

 

To VAN: J Chychrun

 

Arizona wants futures.  Lots of em.  Unless we're trading fir futures to give them we're not in the conversation.  So any movement to get Chychrun involves us finding those futures first.

They want a young roster player as the starting point.

 

Anything involving a trade for Chychrun would have to include Podzolkin or Hoglander, maybe even both.

[KKnight]

31 minutes ago, shiznak said:

They want a young roster player as the starting point.

 

Anything involving a trade for Chychrun would have to include Podzolkin or Hoglander, maybe even both.

Podz and Hogs are off the table. We don't need a high end impact player. We need better depth players. 

[Me_]

Man…

 

 

 

 

Edited January 10, 2022 by Me_

[Me_]

I would also like to remind everyone:

 

8-0-1 

[Crabcakes]

Do we need another LHD?  Not unless we move OEL

 

Crouse is ok but he's a 3LW at best so I wouldn't give too much.  Better the devil(s) we know

[canuck73_3]

I would like Crouse depending on the ask. 

[grandmaster]

9 hours ago, Coconuts said:

Thing is, while said trades were good for the roster, they really hurt our prospect pool, both things can be simultaneously true 

 

Trading out multiple top picks catches up with a team, competing is a juggling act and while you've got to worry about the main roster you've always got to be building that next wave too

 

Most of our top talent has graduated, and while that’s great for the roster it does leave those questioning our current prospect depth with legitimate concerns as you need to continually draft and integrate prospects into the roster to have sustainable success

Where is the sustainable success when you make the playoffs once in 8 years? It was about time the team made moves like this. These two first round trades ended up becoming jackpots. Genuine NHL good players, unlike a kid who is a prospect who may or may not even become an NHL regular. I’m all for developing players but something had to be done and most of us are happy on how it turned out.

[grandmaster]

6 hours ago, Warhippy said:

If I'm wheeling and dealing it looks like this

 

To NYR: JT Miller 5th round pick

 

To VAN: 2022 1st 2023 2nd, Schneider

 

To ARI: 2022 1st (NYR) DiPietro 2022 2nd (van) 2023 2nd (NYR)

 

To VAN: J Chychrun

 

Arizona wants futures.  Lots of em.  Unless we're trading fir futures to give them we're not in the conversation.  So any movement to get Chychrun involves us finding those futures first.

Stop the trade Miller scenarios! My god! He is our MVP and unofficial Captain. The Canucks would be nowhere without him and Demko. Please stop. 

[Coconuts]

55 minutes ago, grandmaster said:

Where is the sustainable success when you make the playoffs once in 8 years? It was about time the team made moves like this. These two first round trades ended up becoming jackpots. Genuine NHL good players, unlike a kid who is a prospect who may or may not even become an NHL regular. I’m all for developing players but something had to be done and most of us are happy on how it turned out.

Twice in eight years actually. 

 

As for where the success was, there's a lot to unpack. You can start by blaming the draft wasteland that was the Gillis era, that left us with little in the pipeline when Benning took over. Gillis was trying to win a cup, but the inability of that management group to get hits with their picks and their trading away picks set us back going forward. Those early Benning years were rough too, you could argue the rebuild didn't truly start til the twins retired. You've been around long enough, all you have to do is reflect on our history. 

 

Like I've mentioned, trades can be simultaneously good and bad for different reasons. Yes, those trades were good for the NHL roster, but they weren't good for what's become a rather shallow prospect pool. 

 

Something had to be done? That's vague. But yes, Miller's been full value and so has Garland. OEL's looked steady, but I was expecting a bit more offense for 7.26M.