King Heffy Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 12 minutes ago, Breezy said: This isn't a new issue, we have been lacking in hospital beds for years. In 2019 (pre-pandemic), we ranked 27th/28th among countries with universal health care for acute-care beds (in graph below, posted link for reference). In 2018, the Ontario Hospital Association, warned us of an imminent capacity crisis, "Hospital occupancy exceeded 100% capacity at half of the province's hospitals" - the international standard for safe hospital capacity is around 85% (link for reference below). Similar information can be found for BC. It's easy for the media to show us that hospital capacity is at their brink, but the reality is they have been for years. They're basically reiterating old information to spark controversy, and to create moral panics for the general public - and are doing a really good job at it. But facts are facts. If they put as much effort into ICU beds and nursing staff, rather than focusing their attention elsewhere (for example, firing healthcare staff for being unvaccinated), our system wouldn't look so swamped. "My body, your consequence".... #1 cause of death in Canada is lung cancer. Should we start mandating laws on cigarettes? Or are we comfortable with them taking up hospital beds and resources, but we're not okay with a small group of unvaccinated people in the hospital due to COVID? Claiming that unvaccinated people are putting others at risk is an easy scape-goat - let them decide what they want to do with their body. Unvaccinated people are not the problem. The problem is how everything is being handled from the top. https://www.fraserinstitute.org/sites/default/files/comparing-health-care-countries-2019.pdfhttps://www.oha.com/Bulletins/2558_OHA_A Sector on the Brink_rev.pdf There's already a hell of a lot of laws on cigarettes to discourage smoking, especially regarding second hand smoke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post PhillipBlunt Posted January 10, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted January 10, 2022 12 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said: It's about time someone is treating these pricks like they deserve. We don't need people like this in our society. “We don’t need people like this in our society.” Wow. You truly have made as loathsome a remark as I’ve ever read on this site. Will you see these people off as they’re loaded on trains? Will that make you feel better about “your society”? Truly pathetic. 1 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
None Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 Just now, King Heffy said: There's already a hell of a lot of laws on cigarettes to discourage smoking, especially regarding second hand smoke. Laws to discourage, and laws to mandate are two separate entities. By telling people they have to abide by certain rules, but are still allowed to smoke, it gives them an alternative to still continue with their choice. That’s extremely different than telling them they can no longer smoke. The smoking comparison was more so to show there are certain things that can put a strain on the healthcare system, things that put a larger strain than the unvaccinated folks, but aren’t being mandated with laws to prevent them from happening. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Heffy Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 Just now, Breezy said: Laws to discourage, and laws to mandate are two separate entities. By telling people they have to abide by certain rules, but are still allowed to smoke, it gives them an alternative to still continue with their choice. That’s extremely different than telling them they can no longer smoke. The smoking comparison was more so to show there are certain things that can put a strain on the healthcare system, things that put a larger strain than the unvaccinated folks, but aren’t being mandated with laws to prevent them from happening. Which is what is happening here with the laws, but the antivaxxers can't handle the choices provided so they are throwing tantrums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 6 hours ago, butters said: mental health is from lockdowns and social distance, not vaccine mandates. We're talking about vaccine passports in this thread, as that's what the protests are about. People without the vaccine passport can't go out for a dinner with their friends, can't go to the gym, can't go to a hockey game, can't go visit people at the hospital, can't do jack sh*t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 6 hours ago, gurn said: If there is no way of measuring this, why would you say it is slower spreading amongst the unvaccinated? I'm saying that because unvaccinated can't do anything/go anywhere, the spread might be slower amongst them with the vaccine passport restrictions. I'm just not sure how you would quantify it. I'm recognizing that in still coming to the conclusion that I don't agree with vaccine passports. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 6 hours ago, Gnarcore said: The French so love a good protest. When Citroen (I think...) laid off 3000000 people they rioted and murdered the CEO. They really do, part of the fabric of their culture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurn Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 6 minutes ago, VancouverHabitant said: People without the vaccine passport can't go out for a dinner with their friends, can't go to the gym, can't go to a hockey game, can't go visit people at the hospital, can't do jack sh*t. non vaxxed people can do many things, just not as much as they used to pre covid. One way to make it so they can re join the rest of society is to get vaccinated. The other will be to stay, mostly at home, or at least away from the rest of us till covid either goes away or becomes non lethal. The second option could take years though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurn Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 (edited) 9 minutes ago, VancouverHabitant said: I'm recognizing that in still coming to the conclusion that I don't agree with vaccine passports. Is you problem with vaccine passports or the alleged movement to make vaxes manditory? If it is the later, I agree; people should not be legally required to get a vaccination, however I also think that being non vaxxed is just cause to be sent home, unpaid till things change. As to having to show a vaxx passport to go to the movies, or eat in a restaurant.-I'm fine with that. Edited January 11, 2022 by gurn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 1 minute ago, gurn said: Is you problem with vaccine passports or the alleged movement to make vaxes manditory? If it is the later, I agree; people should not be legally required to get a vaccination, unless they are in certain work settings such as health care etc. As to having to show a vaxx passport to go to the movies, or eat in a restaurant.-I'm fine with that. My problem with it is that the few people that are stubborn and don't want to take the vaccine have been isolated, made to feel like sh*t by everyone, never get invited for any activity and are shunned from the society. It's become second nature to not even think of them if I'm going for dinner or a drink. All their friends are doing the same. Sure you can say that I should invite them over to my place (I never have people over, pandemic or not), or that people should reach out to them but that's all theoretical. In real life these people are being cast aside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
None Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 4 minutes ago, King Heffy said: Which is what is happening here with the laws, but the antivaxxers can't handle the choices provided so they are throwing tantrums. People are allowed to stick up for what they believe. The choices they're receiving is "get the vaccine or lose your livelihood, your lifestyle, your rights". To say these are the same choices given to others is far from reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurn Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 6 minutes ago, VancouverHabitant said: In real life these people are being cast aside. In real life most of the unnvaxxed have a choice. With choice comes consequences. If it was just those that are medically unable to take the vaxx, society would just say "close enough" however the unwilling are still too large a number. Fortunately they have the freedom to not be vaxxed, and they get the consequence of that freedom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishopshodan Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 3 minutes ago, VancouverHabitant said: My problem with it is that the few people that are stubborn and don't want to take the vaccine have been isolated, made to feel like sh*t by everyone, never get invited for any activity and are shunned from the society. It's become second nature to not even think of them if I'm going for dinner or a drink. All their friends are doing the same. Sure you can say that I should invite them over to my place (I never have people over, pandemic or not), or that people should reach out to them but that's all theoretical. In real life these people are being cast aside. My two close antivaxxers...bro and nephew-in-law are proud AF to be unvaxxed. Nephew admitted at one point, that for him, it is more about being told to do something than getting the jab. They seem to think they are on some team that is pushing back against the man, they come out with all sorts of conspiracies. My bro's favourite is something about social credit scores coming from the vax pass? something like that...it hurts my brain. I wonder, does anyone know someone close that has changed their tune lately? gone and got the vax after doing some soul searching? Just seems like everyone has dug their heels in. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 48 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said: It's about time someone is treating these pricks like they deserve. We don't need people like this in our society. You should start your own society. Call it Jonestown Gawdzukestown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 3 minutes ago, gurn said: In real life most of the unnvaxxed have a choice. With choice comes consequences. If it was just those that are medically unable to take the vaxx, society would just say "close enough" however the unwilling are still too large a number. Fortunately they have the freedom to not be vaxxed, and they get the consequence of that freedom. I know and listen, I respect your opinion gurn, I just think that we are inflicting a little bit too much punishment on them through the vaccine passport. We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 2 minutes ago, bishopshodan said: My two close antivaxxers...bro and nephew-in-law are proud AF to be unvaxxed. Nephew admitted at one point, that for him, it is more about being told to do something than getting the jab. They seem to think they are on some team that is pushing back against the man, they come out with all sorts of conspiracies. My bro's favourite is something about social credit scores coming from the vax pass? something like that...it hurts my brain. I wonder, does anyone know someone close that has changed their tune lately? gone and got the vax after doing some soul searching? Just seems like everyone has dug their heels in. I know a girl that got the vaccine to be able to do social activities. My coworker got it as well so that he could go visit family in Saskatchewan (to catch a flight). Then there's a few people that have dug their heels in and gone off the deep end, they feel like all their freedoms have been taken away and are not taking the vaccine 100% at this point. I know one guy that got the vaccine a long time ago but is getting so frustrated with the lockdowns that he's planning on going to some protests. I've tried to reason with him and sway him against it, but he's not the sharpest tool in the shed and is dead set on it, so I've told him to at least stay away from cameras so that he doesn't lose his job and livelihood over it. As I said, vaccine passports have pushed the numbers up but have radicalized the population and made a deeper division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Heffy Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Breezy said: People are allowed to stick up for what they believe. The choices they're receiving is "get the vaccine or lose your livelihood, your lifestyle, your rights". To say these are the same choices given to others is far from reality. They are losing privileges because they are causing undo hardship to the people who have properly functioning brains. Privileges are not rights. Edited January 11, 2022 by King Heffy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurn Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 14 minutes ago, bishopshodan said: My two close antivaxxers...bro and nephew-in-law are proud AF to be unvaxxed. My brother, who just got married, to a lady the rest of the family has never seen, due to their anti vax stance. My Mom is 77, has emphysema; and a rare fatal disease that has weakened her so she is unable to risk seeing him. Sucks big time. I'm not surprised by his stance, I remember how pissed he was when helmet laws came in for rollerbladers and bikers. Didn't give a crap about the money and injuries that are saved by putting on a bucket; only cared that it would mess up his hair. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 1 hour ago, Breezy said: This isn't a new issue, we have been lacking in hospital beds for years. In 2019 (pre-pandemic), we ranked 27th/28th among countries with universal health care for acute-care beds (in graph below, posted link for reference). In 2018, the Ontario Hospital Association, warned us of an imminent capacity crisis, "Hospital occupancy exceeded 100% capacity at half of the province's hospitals" - the international standard for safe hospital capacity is around 85% (link for reference below). Similar information can be found for BC. It's easy for the media to show us that hospital capacity is at their brink, but the reality is they have been for years. They're basically reiterating old information to spark controversy, and to create moral panics for the general public - and are doing a really good job at it. But facts are facts. If they put as much effort into ICU beds and nursing staff, rather than focusing their attention elsewhere (for example, firing healthcare staff for being unvaccinated), our system wouldn't look so swamped. "My body, your consequence".... #1 cause of death in Canada is lung cancer. Should we start mandating laws on cigarettes? Or are we comfortable with them taking up hospital beds and resources, but we're not okay with a small group of unvaccinated people in the hospital due to COVID? Claiming that unvaccinated people are putting others at risk is an easy scape-goat - let them decide what they want to do with their body. Unvaccinated people are not the problem. The problem is how everything is being handled from the top. https://www.fraserinstitute.org/sites/default/files/comparing-health-care-countries-2019.pdfhttps://www.oha.com/Bulletins/2558_OHA_A Sector on the Brink_rev.pdf all that does is strengthen my point. We can't afford the luxury of people pretending that their decisions don't hurt others. And please, no more red herrings. Smoking, being obese, etc. doesn't have a population effect the same way being anti-vax does. If someone could take two shots and not be obese we wouldn't have an obesity problem. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 23 minutes ago, King Heffy said: They are losing privileges because they are causing undo hardship to the people who have properly functioning brains. Privileges are not rights. bingo. Its sickening to see the support for doing nothing to help your fellow citizens. The hero's who did nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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