Do We Lack Toughness? Who would you give up for?

[canuck73_3]

5 minutes ago, Odd. said:

Yep. 
 

Gritty, tough, a pest, top line player, sticks up for his teammates, can do it all. 
 

But but but he’s a locker room cancer because of his own personal problems… that can be helped with the support group and resource facilities we have here. 

 

Now we get to see him play with McDavid and Draisaitl.

He's had a falling out with three teams now and the players on his last team could literally not stand him. Hertl or Kane, easy choice for me. 

[canuck73_3]

4 minutes ago, Odd. said:

Slow and overall not the best skater. And I don’t know what pieces we’d be able to give to make that work. Or let alone the asking price. 
 

Sign Kane 

Still better than the head case Kane. 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Bure_of_94 said:

I’d say an Austin Watson or Deslauries. Someone who can play and hit and put up 10-15 points  on the 4th line. And fight effectively.  Probably a 6th and Chiasson would get you Watson, but we don’t have the cap room . 

Deslauriers will be a free agent this offseason.  We can probably get him for 2 mil/year if we really want him.  

 

[Drop Em]

2 hours ago, VancouverHabitant said:

I wouldn't call our team soft per say.  

 

I do wish that we had one tougher forward who doesn't mind dropping the gloves other then JT Miller.  I have never liked having a d-man as our tough guy (Guddy, not Schenn) because it's tough to go down to 5 d-men for a long period of time.  

 

I remember games where Guddy would instigate a fight, get thrown out in the first period and then we'd play the whole game down a d-man.  

C'mon dude, you don't remember those games were Guddy instigated a fight and then the team had to play the whole game with 5 D, because it NEVER happened. Gudbranson never received an instigator penalty during his time here, never mind in the first period. And last time I checked, you don't get a gamer for instigating even if he had ever. You can say that you don't want your main tough guy being a d-man, but you can't use that as an example. 

[canuck73_3]

26 minutes ago, Drop Em said:

C'mon dude, you don't remember those games were Guddy instigated a fight and then the team had to play the whole game with 5 D, because it NEVER happened. Gudbranson never received an instigator penalty during his time here, never mind in the first period. And last time I checked, you don't get a gamer for instigating even if he had ever. You can say that you don't want your main tough guy being a d-man, but you can't use that as an example. 

Instigator is 2, 10 and a game. And I recall Gudbranson getting at least one instigator with the Canucks though I don’t remember if it was early in the game or not.

I too prefer our tough guy or goon not be a dman for similar reasoning. 5 minutes is a long time to have a dman out of rotation. I definitely prefer a fwd as that is easier to manage. Even if it is a Kesler or Iginla type that can handle themselves without getting too banged up. 

[Guest]

42 minutes ago, Drop Em said:

C'mon dude, you don't remember those games were Guddy instigated a fight and then the team had to play the whole game with 5 D, because it NEVER happened. Gudbranson never received an instigator penalty during his time here, never mind in the first period. And last time I checked, you don't get a gamer for instigating even if he had ever. You can say that you don't want your main tough guy being a d-man, but you can't use that as an example. 

https://www.nhl.com/gamecenter/van-vs-bos/2017/10/19/2017020095/recap/box-score#game=2017020095,game_state=final,lock_state=final,game_tab=box-score

 

1st period, 6:13 into the game 

 

Gudbranson fought Tim Schaller and got a game misconduct.  We had to play the rest of the game with 5 D.  

 

 

[Guest]

@Drop Em I just don't like disrupting our defensemen rotation with 5 minute penalties, I guess.  Instigators are very rare I admit. 

[Drop Em]

7 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said:

Instigator is 2, 10 and a game. And I recall Gudbranson getting at least one instigator with the Canucks though I don’t remember if it was early in the game or not.

I too prefer our tough guy or goon not be a dman for similar reasoning. 5 minutes is a long time to have a dman out of rotation. I definitely prefer a fwd as that is easier to manage. Even if it is a Kesler or Iginla type that can handle themselves without getting too banged up. 

Since when is an instigator 2, 10 and a game? When was that rule changed? An instigator is a 2 minute penalty, 5 minutes for fighting plus a 10 minute misconduct and NOT a game misconduct...and there's a difference. So whenever you get an instigator in the first period, you'd still be back at some point in the second period.

 

Please show me where Gudbranson received an instigator with the Canucks, because I don't see it.

 

5 minutes isn't that long of a time (usually 2 shifts) to go without a d-man, but IF it turns out to be 17 minutes, then that's a different story. I agree that it's not ideal to have your main tough guy be a d-man, but the more the merrier as far as I'm concerned.

 

[canuck73_3]

1 minute ago, Drop Em said:

Since when is an instigator 2, 10 and a game? When was that rule changed? An instigator is a 2 minute penalty, 5 minutes for fighting plus a 10 minute misconduct and NOT a game misconduct...and there's a difference. So whenever you get an instigator in the first period, you'd still be back at some point in the second period.

 

Please show me where Gudbranson received an instigator with the Canucks, because I don't see it.

 

5 minutes isn't that long of a time (usually 2 shifts) to go without a d-man, but IF it turns out to be 17 minutes, then that's a different story. I agree that it's not ideal to have your main tough guy be a d-man, but the more the merrier as far as I'm concerned.

 

 

14 minutes ago, VancouverHabitant said:

https://www.nhl.com/gamecenter/van-vs-bos/2017/10/19/2017020095/recap/box-score#game=2017020095,game_state=final,lock_state=final,game_tab=box-score

 

1st period, 6:13 into the game 

 

Gudbranson fought Tim Schaller and got a game misconduct.  We had to play the rest of the game with 5 D.  

 

 

 

[canuck73_3]

5 minutes ago, Drop Em said:

 

 

5 minutes isn't that long of a time (usually 2 shifts) to go without a d-man, .

 

5 minutes in todays NHL is more like 6-7 shifts coaches especially Boudreau prefer shifts be 45 seconds or less ideally. 

[Drop Em]

13 minutes ago, VancouverHabitant said:

https://www.nhl.com/gamecenter/van-vs-bos/2017/10/19/2017020095/recap/box-score#game=2017020095,game_state=final,lock_state=final,game_tab=box-score

 

1st period, 6:13 into the game 

 

Gudbranson fought Tim Schaller and got a game misconduct.  We had to play the rest of the game with 5 D.  

 

 

That was a BOARDING major, which I believe carries with it an automatic game misconduct, and that's why they played the rest of the game without him. That was NOT an instigator, which is what you mentioned.

[canuck73_3]

2 minutes ago, Drop Em said:

That was a BOARDING major, which I believe carries with it an automatic game misconduct, and that's why they played the rest of the game without him. That was NOT an instigator, which is what you mentioned.

Instigator is a game misconduct. 

[Drop Em]

8 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said:

 

 

EXACTLY. It's a 10 minute misconduct. They CAN give you a gamer, but how often do you see it happen?

 

You brought up the Schaller fight as well. Gudbranson received his game misconduct for BOARDING and not instigating.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Drop Em said:

That was a BOARDING major, which I believe carries with it an automatic game misconduct, and that's why they played the rest of the game without him. That was NOT an instigator, which is what you mentioned.

You know what I completely forgot about the boarding major, that's why he got the boot in that game.  

 

I just remember watching it and wanting to have our next enforcer a forward instead of a d-man. 

[Ballisticsports.]

27 minutes ago, VancouverHabitant said:

https://www.nhl.com/gamecenter/van-vs-bos/2017/10/19/2017020095/recap/box-score#game=2017020095,game_state=final,lock_state=final,game_tab=box-score

 

1st period, 6:13 into the game 

 

Gudbranson fought Tim Schaller and got a game misconduct.  We had to play the rest of the game with 5 D.  

 

 

Canucks cannot hit Bruins is an unwritten rule 

[RolexSub]

I agree I would much prefer a few tough forwards that is willing to drop the gloves when needed and can skate, hit, and make a few plays. These are the type of guys that can help create more ice for other players and to help grind the other team down. Kane looks like someone that can fit this role and more. 

[canuck73_3]

8 minutes ago, Drop Em said:

That was a BOARDING major, which I believe carries with it an automatic game misconduct, and that's why they played the rest of the game without him. That was NOT an instigator, which is what you mentioned.

I have yet to see an instigator in years that wasn’t a game misconduct, and Guddy was getting the gamer for one or the other so take your pick. 

[Drop Em]

44 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said:

I have yet to see an instigator in years that wasn’t a game misconduct, and Guddy was getting the gamer for one or the other so take your pick. 

Really, please show me an example of when someone's been given a game misconduct as opposed to a 10 minute misconduct for an instigator, because it's VERY rare IF you can find me an example? You do know there's a difference right.....just like there is between boarding and instigating. If he'd gotten an instigator, then he would've been back in the 2nd period.

Edited January 12, 2022 by Drop Em

[Drop Em]

35 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said:

5 minutes in todays NHL is more like 6-7 shifts coaches especially Boudreau prefer shifts be 45 seconds or less ideally. 

Even if it were 6-7 shifts on the high end, that would still be spread over the other d-men? There's NO WAY that a single guy is missing 6-7 of HIS OWN shifts in 5 minutes. A d-man who sits out 5 minutes might miss 2-3 of HIS OWN shifts, based on the other pairings also getting shifts in that time frame.  

[canuck73_3]

4 minutes ago, Drop Em said:

Even if it were 6-7 shifts on the high end, that would still be spread over the other d-men? There's NO WAY that a single guy is missing 6-7 of HIS OWN shifts in 5 minutes. A d-man who sits out 5 minutes might miss 2-3 of HIS OWN shifts, based on the other pairings also getting shifts in that time frame.  

No he isn’t missing 6-7 shifts more like 2-3 but it limits what the coach can do unnecessarily. 
 

And you’re correct I forgot they amended the game to official discretion, but that is still a possibility of 17 minutes without a dman if he’s your enforcer. Not a fan of that situation especially when there are plenty of forwards that can handle the job and still play. Unfortunately we had two that our previous coach let go for free for no real reason.