[Discussion] JT Miller to Rangers

[khay]

43 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

But that's just it's, there's no guarantee we'd even get 80% of what Miller's worth right now next deadline. Hockey's a fast game, Miller's season could end next game. There's no guarantee he'll be healthy all of next season, or even at the deadline. There's no guarantee he'd produce at the clip he has this season. Trading him is a gamble, but so is holding him. 

 

If Miller's healthy and producing leading up to this year's deadline and Rutherford isn't convinced we're actually in it this season or doesn't envision him as part of the team long-term it's absolutely worth considering a trade.

 

Value matters too, I'd rather have a shot at getting a high end RD prospect and a 1st+ than a 1st and a bottom six player. We desperately need to get younger on D, and we lack high end D prospects and young high end NHL ready D in general. Hughes is the only top 4D we have who's under 25, everyone else is pushing 30 or just past it. 

 

 

I agree. Miller's value will not be higher than at this TDL than in the off season or the next TDL.

 

It's a tough decision though. Trading your best player.

 

I think Chytil gets you a roster player to immediately replace some of Miller's ice time and the hope here would be that EP, Boeser, Horvat, Hogz, Podz,  Garland, and Chytil collectively replace the point production. In particular, EP. If EP can't take over the majority of Miller's point production, then that's a sign that we need something more than a retool anyways.

 

At the end of the day, Schneider is the core piece of the package. If he becomes our Brent Seabrook to Hughes, then we win the trade. 

 

[JM_]

8 minutes ago, khay said:

I agree. Miller's value will not be higher than at this TDL than in the off season or the next TDL.

 

It's a tough decision though. Trading your best player.

 

I think Chytil gets you a roster player to immediately replace some of Miller's ice time and the hope here would be that EP, Boeser, Horvat, Hogz, Podz,  Garland, and Chytil collectively replace the point production. In particular, EP. If EP can't take over the majority of Miller's point production, then that's a sign that we need something more than a retool anyways.

 

At the end of the day, Schneider is the core piece of the package. If he becomes our Brent Seabrook to Hughes, then we win the trade. 

 

I like that Chytil has good size, and if we can add a guy like Nick Paul we can be OK losing Miller from a grit pov. Thats why I'm hesitant to like deals that have salary retention on Miller, I think we need that cap space to find some bigger bodies as UFAs this summer. 

 

Edited January 19, 2022 by JM_

[khay]

2 minutes ago, JM_ said:

I like that Chytil has good size, and if we can add a guy like Nick Paul we can be OK losing Miller from a grit pov. Thats why I'm hesitant to like deals that have salary retention on Miller, I think we need that cap space to find some bigger bodies as UFAs this summer. 

 

I agree. I honestly feel that NYR would do the trade even without salary retention. They have 6+ mil in space as it stands now based on capfriendly (https://www.capfriendly.com/teams/rangers).

 

But if we were to retain cap, then I want a massive return. Miller at 2.75 mil is crazy bargain deal.

 

Schneider + Chytil + 1st might not be enough. Maybe they need to give us two RHD prospects. Schneider and Lundqvist.

 

[JM_]

3 minutes ago, khay said:

I agree. I honestly feel that NYR would do the trade even without salary retention. They have 6+ mil in space as it stands now based on capfriendly (https://www.capfriendly.com/teams/rangers).

 

But if we were to retain cap, then I want a massive return. Miller at 2.75 mil is crazy bargain deal.

 

Schneider + Chytil + 1st might not be enough. Maybe they need to give us two RHD prospects. Schneider and Lundqvist.

 

I'm hoping Rutherford can whip up a bidding war. I also hope he is true to form and does it early.

 

I love what Miller brings, and wish we were in a position to extend him. But we're not, and moving him for the right package just makes too much sense.

 

I'm actually not worried about the Miller deal, it will be good. I'm much more concerned about how to deal with Halak's bonus cap hit, Hamonic and Pearson. We've got to get more efficient on some of these positions, and we still have the 2.5 mil in dead cap from buyouts for next year too. 

[CanuckinEdm]

Only way I trade Miller is if he doesn't want to resign. If that happens my talks would start with Schneider and Lafreniere. Miller's Value has just been going up and up since we got him. He gives the Rangers a legit #2 center behind Zib.

 

[Angry Goose]

Why isn’t Lammikko  pencilled in as the 4th line C?  

 

Don’t understand Motte in the line up either.  If he gets re-signed it’s going to be fore double his contract and thats to take a bigger role in the line up, not a 4th line winger.  

[Canucks Curse]

Schneider, 2022 1st and chitin or no deal

[khay]

26 minutes ago, CanuckinEdm said:

Only way I trade Miller is if he doesn't want to resign. If that happens my talks would start with Schneider and Lafreniere. Miller's Value has just been going up and up since we got him. He gives the Rangers a legit #2 center behind Zib.

 

I like the idea. Buy low on Lafreniere's potential.

 

If we retain salary like suggested by OP, we could probably get a draft pick back as well?

 

Miller at 2.65 mil is the best deal in the NHL. He wins faceoffs, he puts up points, can play wing and center. Plays PWF game needed to win in the playoffs.

 

As it stands right now, NYR doesn't beat Tampa. They might not even beat the Canes and Pens, beating Crosby and Malkin has been difficult for the rest of Metropolitan division. Add Miller at 2.65 mil, which lets you add another player. 

 

Miller + Motte for Schneider + Lafreniere + Chytil (or 1st).

 

That trade keeps us competitive now and in the future as well.

 

[J.I.A.H.N]

2 hours ago, JM_ said:

why do we need to retain salary on Miller? that hurts us moving forward. 

IMO, Jimmy. I think it is an option that does not hurt too much, as it would only be this and next year, and if it was the difference of bringing in 2 really good players or 1 and a secondary player..........I am retaining. 

 

But sure, if there is no difference in the return, why should we?

[J.I.A.H.N]

58 minutes ago, JM_ said:

I like that Chytil has good size, and if we can add a guy like Nick Paul we can be OK losing Miller from a grit pov. Thats why I'm hesitant to like deals that have salary retention on Miller, I think we need that cap space to find some bigger bodies as UFAs this summer. 

 

Keep in mind jim, that with Schneider coming on board, we move a player (Hamonic?) which is $3 million or (Poolman) which is 2 million

 

So there is where the savings is

[JM_]

5 minutes ago, J.I.A.H.N said:

Keep in mind jim, that with Schneider coming on board, we move a player (Hamonic?) which is $3 million or (Poolman) which is 2 million

 

So there is where the savings is

if we can move that much dough then I want Klingberg 

 

Klingberg

Myers

Schneider 

 

is a nice looking right side. 

[JM_]

13 minutes ago, J.I.A.H.N said:

IMO, Jimmy. I think it is an option that does not hurt too much, as it would only be this and next year, and if it was the difference of bringing in 2 really good players or 1 and a secondary player..........I am retaining. 

 

But sure, if there is no difference in the return, why should we?

I just feel like unless we can offload Halak's bonus, Pearson and Hamonic we'll need all the cap we can get to be competitive next year. 

[aGENT]

2 hours ago, JM_ said:

why do we need to retain salary on Miller? that hurts us moving forward. 

 

1 hour ago, JM_ said:

I like that Chytil has good size, and if we can add a guy like Nick Paul we can be OK losing Miller from a grit pov. Thats why I'm hesitant to like deals that have salary retention on Miller, I think we need that cap space to find some bigger bodies as UFAs this summer. 

 

I'd do it if we send a second, expiring piece piece, like Motte. Retain $1.5m on Miller, just for this year, to cover Motte's expiring hit (and change) for them. 

 

That still leaves us the cap to sign a Paul/Tierney/Sturm while adding Chytil's hit.

 

If we can unload a Hamonic or Poolman as well... Gravy.

 

I'd like to see us move Halak before his bonus... But I don't think that's happening with his trade clause. *Fingers crossed*

[bishopshodan]

bishopshodan does not approve of this discussion. 

[Junkyard Dog]

I think the Rangers also ask for Schenn. They've been trying RD prospects out at their bottom pair and would likely be trading Schneider out in any deal for Miller. He fits what they want and comes cheap/inexpensive. Hamonic probably vetos and has been out most the year and Poolman's got too much term for their liking with having to re-sign players the next 2 seasons.

 

[wildcam]

3 hours ago, Doogie said:

As much as I am hoping the Canucks will make the playoffs this year, if they do and I know anything can happen, I don't see them making a run for the cup. JR mentioned there are some holes in the lineup and I completely agree. So let's look ahead and discuss a potential trade of our biggest trade chip JT Miller and next years lineup. 

 

Hoglander - Pettersson - Podkolzin

Pearson - Horvat - Boeser

??? - ??? - Garland

Motte - ??? - Highmore

 

Hughes - ???

OEL - Myers

Rathbone - ???

 

Demko

???

 

This is how I see our lineup next year and as you can see there are glaring holes that need to be addressed. I've left Dickinson out of the lineup because I'm hoping a playoff team this year could see a need for Dickinson and he is traded. Now as for the holes that need to be addressed, Miller is our best trade chip and will command a lofty return helping fill these holes. There are reports in the media as the Rangers being "all over him" so the focus of this will be trading Miller to the Rangers. So, what would your ideal trade look like with the Rangers?

 

I would center the trade around Schneider who could be a long-term partner for Hughes and is our biggest need, a RHD. Our second biggest need is a defensive 3C who can chip in offensively when need be and this is where Chytil or Barron come in. Although both shoot left and we would be better off if either of them shot right this need can be filled with our 4C. The only other issue is some are projecting Chytil to move to the wing where he may be better suited and for this reason I would prefer Barron a big physical presence who plays to his size. Now this is where it gets a little interesting, Schneider and Barron are not enough of a return for Miller so what else could we squeeze out of the Rangers. I would prefer another roster player or prospect over a draft pick to help fill out the rest of our lineup but for the 3LW I see Klimovich getting a shot next year and we could easily find sign a UFA for the 4C position. Here I'm not only thinking next year I'm thinking 2-3 years down the road as we will need to find replacements for Pearson and Myers when their contracts are up. There were two names that stood out to me in a recent article I read and they were Hunter Skinner (RD) and Brennan Othmann (LW). However, I believe the LW position is a lot easier to fill than a RD but then we also have Woo who could jump in and fill that bottom RD position maybe as early as next year. But again, going back to how easily we could fill a LW spot over a RD I would prefer Skinner here. The return of Schneider, Barron, Skinner still seems a little underwhelming especially since we'd retain 50% of Millers salary so just for good measure I'd ask for a 2nd round pick.

 

To Rangers:

Miller at 50% retained

 

To Canucks:

Schneider

Barron

Skinner

2nd round pick 2022

 

Potential lineup next year

 

Hoglander - Pettersson - Podkolzin

Pearson - Horvat - Boeser

Kilmovich - Barron - Garland

Motte - UFA - Highmore

 

Hughes - Schneider

OEL - Myers

Rathbone - Woo/Skinner/Schenn

 

Demko

???

 

Do you agree with the return heading back our way, if not what would be your ideal return in a JT Miller trade to the Rangers? 

I would like from Rangers-- Schneider 20-6'2 1st rounder 2020-- Getting 23 -- 6'6 LW -- Barron 23 --6'4--  2nd rounder..

NYR -- Miller, Dickinson ---Canucks retain 40% of. Millers contract...

[higgyfan]

1 hour ago, Maniwaki Canuck said:

Sorry but the proposed return for Miller is terrible value.  If you're only getting a D who's been playing in the minors, a 3rd line winger and a pick, even if it's a low 1st, that doesn't begin to equal a top scorer and all around player in the league who plays a premium position and is on a great contract.  There just aren't many players in the league who can do what Miller does.  If you have one, you do everything you can to hang onto them.  If you have to deal them, you make damn sure you're getting back a player with good potential to reach the same level plus additional assets to cover the risk.  The proposed return isn't even close to clearing that bar.

I'd be interested in what you see as a fair price, Mani.  I agree that it would be unlikely that the Nucks could replace him.  It's important to get full value if the GM trades Miller.

 

I liked Chytil as part of the trade, but now I have discovered he is playing W instead of C (his game has since picked up and NY see him as W).  Of course, this may be related to the Rags adding Goodrow this year, which pushed Chytil down to 4C.  I'll bet the Rangers would prefer to have Rooney handling 4C @ $.750  So I think Chytil is not as valuable as I thought.

 

At 19, Schneider is doing well in his 1st pro season.  He has recently been called up from the AHL (Lundquist was sent down), so we will see how he does in the NHL.

 

NYs 1st round pick would be nice to use for moving up in the draft, but again, the pick is no sure thing and will take time to develop.

 

So do the Canucks ask for Kakko or Lafreniere + Schneider?  Is that a fair trade?  Those 2 players are already in the NHL and will likely be at least top 6 players.  RW or LW .

I'm assuming that the Rangers trade Strome for a couple of great assets, so JT would not be a cap problem.

 

[JM_]

59 minutes ago, aGENT said:

 

I'd do it if we send a second, expiring piece piece, like Motte. Retain $1.5m on Miller, just for this year, to cover Motte's expiring hit (and change) for them. 

 

That still leaves us the cap to sign a Paul/Tierney/Sturm while adding Chytil's hit.

 

If we can unload a Hamonic or Poolman as well... Gravy.

 

I'd like to see us move Halak before his bonus... But I don't think that's happening with his trade clause. *Fingers crossed*

re: Halak, you have to think he'd like to go to a contender. I think its just agent posturing in the media by way of Dhaliwal.

 

Well, if the wheels do come off in the next few weeks, at least the Miller trade will provide a nice boost and some hope around next year and draft talk. 

[204CanucksFan]

I'm a big believer in the 'trade Miiller this TDL because his value is as high as its going to be' theory. Here is my swing for the fences, nice to live in a fantasy world, trade proposal:

 

Van Trades:

Miller (50% retained) because retaining 2.625 for next season won't be totally detrimental for us and should significantly increase his value.

Motte/Schenn: NYR's choice

 

NYR Trades:

Schneider

Othmann

2022 1st round pick

2022 2nd round pick

Barron

 

I'll take Othmann and Barron over Chytil. I like Chytil but he's playing predominantly on the wing and he is not good at faceoffs. Barron, albeit in very limited viewings, is very physical and is good at faceoffs and is a big man at 6'4 220lbs. Othmann isn't big but he is very fast, great hands and shot, plays physical and relentless, basically like Motte with much more skill.

 

Basically it equates to Miller + Motte/Schenn for 3 1sts, a 2nd and a big 3/4C

Edited January 20, 2022 by 204CanucksFan

[JM_]

1 hour ago, aGENT said:

 

I'd do it if we send a second, expiring piece piece, like Motte. Retain $1.5m on Miller, just for this year, to cover Motte's expiring hit (and change) for them. 

 

I suppose the other part of letting it be known we'd be willing to retain on Miller is that it might spark a real bidding war. A lot of teams can make a proposal at 50% retained. 

 

Edited January 20, 2022 by JM_