[Discussion] The Value of JT Miller

[Timråfan]

What about Miller for Theodore? 
 

Theodore fits our core and really good.

 

 

Edited January 20, 2022 by Timråfan

[shiznak]

I wouldn’t say Stone, O’Reilly, and Pacioretty were comparable value. O’Reilly and Stone  were regarded as two of the best two-way players in the league and Pac wanted out of Montreal.
 

Stone was only suppose to be a rental, and Vegas only gave up one of their top prospects and a 2nd. While in the Pac deal, they gave up their other top prospect and another 2nd. Tartar was just a throw-in.
 

St.Louis, gave up two bottom 6 players (cap relief), a mid-tier prospects, a 1st round pick that ended up being the 30th pick, and a second for O’Reilly. 

Chytil, Schneider and a 1st seem to be the deal everyone is clamouring for. Though, I highly doubt Drury is ready to sell the future for two years of Miller, when he could just re-sign Strome at the same price range with a longer deal.

 

[IBatch]

Miller to me is worth two firsts as picks - one for each season if we want to go pure futures, plus something if retention is added.   Tatar got a first, second and third (consecutive drafts), lesser player, and wasn't barely used with one year left on his deal.   

 

Miller wouldn't hurt us at 7.5-8 x 6 either.   Wouldn't be opposed to that either but in that case we'd have to trade Brock instead.  

 

That said - one of these guys has to go (Miller/Horvat/Brock Boeser) and only an insider would understand the glue part of this.  Who's most liked in the room?  Who's most respected?   It's rare these days a player stays in one place his entire career.     

 

Miller is awesome at his cap hit ... top player in his position and 13th overall in points since he came here in the entire league.    But we've also seen his cross ice passes that have resulted in a scoring chance or a goal too.    He's 22 in scoring right now but 68th in even strength ... Power play time makes a difference...Garland is 58th.   There are a lot of names that don't get any or much of any PP time ahead of him that would probably surprise you.  Hartman.  Wilson. Ryan Strome, Jesper Bratt etc ... maybe just maybe, stats get a big bump getting those minutes.... Yes he's a great player, but Bertuzzi and Larkin and Lucas Raymond are all ahead of him 5 x 5 too.  Hartman lol.   Hope Motte gets a chance like he's got one day. 

 

Point is he's a great player but is also not going to stay great without those minutes.   Take them away and he's just a good player.   Like most guys.   Want him for the push to a playoff spot, if we are out at the TDL then trade him.   If not see how we do making the playoffs and then make a decision.   Miller at 5.25 is great.   An awesome trade.   Miller at 7.5-8?  Not as much.  Personally don't think we will lose at that but we need actual gain and that's going to cost us.      Our cap needs more cleaning up.   

Edited January 20, 2022 by IBatch

[IBatch]

1 hour ago, shiznak said:

I wouldn’t say Stone, O’Reilly, and Pacioretty were comparable value. O’Reilly and Stone  were regarded as two of the best two-way players in the league and Pac wanted out of Montreal.
 

Stone was only suppose to be a rental, and Vegas only gave up one of their top prospects and a 2nd. While in the Pac deal, they gave up their other top prospect and another 2nd. Tartar was just a throw-in.
 

St.Louis, gave up two bottom 6 players (cap relief), a mid-tier prospects, a 1st round pick that ended up being the 30th pick, and a second for O’Reilly. 

Chytil, Schneider and a 1st seem to be the deal everyone is clamouring for. Though, I highly doubt Drury is ready to sell the future for two years of Miller, when he could just re-sign Strome at the same price range with a longer deal.

 

O'Reilly and Stone were both considered two of the best two way forwards in the league - and Patches still is top ten in goal scoring since he was drafted...he's scored a lot of goals, and is a big body. 

 

Vegas spent a first, second and a third for Tatar.  Same cap hit, one year left...might have been a "throw in" but he cost them.   And Suzuki is a pretty good prospect.   They never make the final last year without that deal either.
 

Miller is actually very interesting right now NYR do want him back.   They've got the assets.   And don't need Schnieder.   Don't think that proposal is far off.  And they know they can strike now when the iron is hot before they need too pay up for their RFAs. 

 

Edit:  Miller 50% retained is a king maker move.  I think he'd get us a kings ransom.   In a couple months we will find out. 

Edited January 20, 2022 by IBatch

[shiznak]

6 minutes ago, IBatch said:

O'Reilly and Stone were both considered two of the best two way forwards in the league - and Patches still is top ten in goal scoring since he was drafted...he's scored a lot of goals, and is a big body. 

 

Vegas spent a first, second and a third for Tatar.  Same cap hit, one year left...might have been a "throw in" but he cost them.   And Suzuki is a pretty good prospect.   They never make the final last year without that deal either.
 

Miller is actually very interesting right now NYR do want him back.   They've got the assets.   And don't need Schnieder.   Don't think that proposal is far off.  And they know they can strike now when the iron is hot before they need too pay up for their RFAs. 

 

Edit:  Miller 50% retained is a king maker move.  I think he'd get us a kings ransom.   In a couple months we will find out. 

I don’t think Drury will part ways with Schneider quite honestly. Gallant raved about the kid, when he coached him at the World Championships last year, and Trouba already joked that this kid is going to take over his job. The organization are high on him and I’m certain he’s on the untouchable list. 

 

I could see them giving up Chytil, Lundkvist, and a conditional 2nd round pick (1st if they make it to the conference finals)

 

I just don’t believe the rest of the league values Miller as highly as we do.

[HKSR]

2 hours ago, shiznak said:

I wouldn’t say Stone, O’Reilly, and Pacioretty were comparable value. O’Reilly and Stone  were regarded as two of the best two-way players in the league and Pac wanted out of Montreal.
 

Stone was only suppose to be a rental, and Vegas only gave up one of their top prospects and a 2nd. While in the Pac deal, they gave up their other top prospect and another 2nd. Tartar was just a throw-in.
 

St.Louis, gave up two bottom 6 players (cap relief), a mid-tier prospects, a 1st round pick that ended up being the 30th pick, and a second for O’Reilly. 

Chytil, Schneider and a 1st seem to be the deal everyone is clamouring for. Though, I highly doubt Drury is ready to sell the future for two years of Miller, when he could just re-sign Strome at the same price range with a longer deal.

 

 

1 hour ago, IBatch said:

Miller to me is worth two firsts as picks - one for each season if we want to go pure futures, plus something if retention is added.   Tatar got a first, second and third (consecutive drafts), lesser player, and wasn't barely used with one year left on his deal.   

 

Miller wouldn't hurt us at 7.5-8 x 6 either.   Wouldn't be opposed to that either but in that case we'd have to trade Brock instead.  

 

That said - one of these guys has to go (Miller/Horvat/Brock Boeser) and only an insider would understand the glue part of this.  Who's most liked in the room?  Who's most respected?   It's rare these days a player stays in one place his entire career.     

 

Miller is awesome at his cap hit ... top player in his position and 13th overall in points since he came here in the entire league.    But we've also seen his cross ice passes that have resulted in a scoring chance or a goal too.    He's 22 in scoring right now but 68th in even strength ... Power play time makes a difference...Garland is 58th.   There are a lot of names that don't get any or much of any PP time ahead of him that would probably surprise you.  Hartman.  Wilson. Ryan Strome, Jesper Bratt etc ... maybe just maybe, stats get a big bump getting those minutes.... Yes he's a great player, but Bertuzzi and Larkin and Lucas Raymond are all ahead of him 5 x 5 too.  Hartman lol.   Hope Motte gets a chance like he's got one day. 

 

Point is he's a great player but is also not going to stay great without those minutes.   Take them away and he's just a good player.   Like most guys.   Want him for the push to a playoff spot, if we are out at the TDL then trade him.   If not see how we do making the playoffs and then make a decision.   Miller at 5.25 is great.   An awesome trade.   Miller at 7.5-8?  Not as much.  Personally don't think we will lose at that but we need actual gain and that's going to cost us.      Our cap needs more cleaning up.   

I'm not sure if you guys are giving enough credit to JT Miller.

 

When you look at a larger sample size (ie. 3 years), JT Miller is 33rd in even strength points across the entire league.  He is 14th amongst all centres.

 

I don't know why he is worth less because he's effective on the PP either.  Wherever he goes, he is more than likely to be on the 1st PP unit anyways.  So I don't see why his production would drop. 

 

The fact his PPG average is higher than any of the previously mentioned comparables by quite a fair margin would make him just as valuable, if not more valuable.  He has term left on his deal.  His cap hit is lower than all of them except one.  He literally plays in every situation imaginable in a hockey game.  Even his faceoff % is up there at 53.5%. 

 

Honestly, if either of you can find a PPG centre that is under 30 years old that was traded in the past 10 years, I'm all ears.  I just couldn't think of one or find one while I was digging up names to compare him against.  That alone tells me this is a rare situation (ie. the trading of a PPG 1st line centre in his prime).

[IBatch]

10 minutes ago, HKSR said:

 

I'm not sure if you guys are giving enough credit to JT Miller.

 

When you look at a larger sample size (ie. 3 years), JT Miller is 33rd in even strength points across the entire league.  He is 14th amongst all centres.

 

I don't know why he is worth less because he's effective on the PP either.  Wherever he goes, he is more than likely to be on the 1st PP unit anyways.  So I don't see why his production would drop. 

 

The fact his PPG average is higher than any of the previously mentioned comparables by quite a fair margin would make him just as valuable, if not more valuable.  He has term left on his deal.  His cap hit is lower than all of them except one.  He literally plays in every situation imaginable in a hockey game.  Even his faceoff % is up there at 53.5%. 

 

Honestly, if either of you can find a PPG centre that is under 30 years old that was traded in the past 10 years, I'm all ears.  I just couldn't think of one or find one while I was digging up names to compare him against.  That alone tells me this is a rare situation (ie. the trading of a PPG 1st line centre in his prime).

Get that.  But Stone and O'Reilly were considered Selke guys at the time ... and since too.  Patches like i already said, he's a goal scorer, not many guys have scored more goals then him since he's entered the league, and has his own intangibles.   Sure based on pure points he's up there with Stone.  So why should we expect him to be paid much less then he got?  Miller at 5.25 is a bargain.  At 9 plus not so much.   And at 2.65 he's a freaking awesome trade chip.   Big picture here.  

 

Edit: Vegas has no state taxes.  36.4% vs 53%...Miller here is going to cost more then Miller in most US states as well.  Food for thought.  Sure he's missing his extra 500k per year since he was traded. 

Edited January 20, 2022 by IBatch

[HKSR]

Over the past 3 years, JT Miller ranks as follows across the entire league:

 

16th in points among all skaters

8th in points among all centres

 

33rd in even strength points among all skaters

14th in even strength points among all centres

 

15th in FO% (55.3%) among all centres that have played at least 50 games in the past 3 years

 

36th in games played (speaks to his durability)

 

[qwijibo]

2 hours ago, Timråfan said:

What about Miller for Theodore? 
 

Theodore fits our core and really good.

 

 

You’re aiming to high.  Theodore is about as untouchable as players come. 

[HKSR]

2 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Get that.  But Stone and O'Reilly were considered Selke guys at the time ... and since too.  Patches like i already said, he's a goal scorer, not many guys have scored more goals then him since he's entered the league, and has his own intangibles.   Sure based on pure points he's up there with Stone.  So why should we expect him to be paid much less then he got?  Miller at 5.25 is a bargain.  At 9 plus not so much.   And at 2.65 he's a freaking awesome trade chip.   Big picture here.  

 

Edit: Vegas has no state taxes.  36.4% vs 53%...Miller here is going to cost more then Miller in most US states as well.  Food for thought.  Sure he's missing his extra 500k per year since he was traded. 

I understand where you're coming from.  Stone was also in his UFA year which decreased his value.  JT Miller has 2 playoff runs left at a very manageable cap hit like you mentioned.

 

O'Reilly was almost 0.20 PPG less.  Selke or not, 0.20 PPG is the equivalent of 16 points over the course of a year.  That's significant.  He also carried a $7.5M cap hit.

 

Patches value is probably close to where JT Miller is at now.  Yep, Patches scored more goals, but JT Miller brings more points, and arguable more intangibles.  Not to mention Miller is a centre which naturally has more value.  I don't see Tatar as a throw in.  He was a 5-time 20 goal scorer.  If he's a throw in, count me in for 3 of him for Dickinson lol. 

Tatar was an established top 6 forward.  Suzuki was a very highly touted prospect.  And then a 2nd round pick added as well.  I'd be happy with a package like that.

 

Miller is anomaly... like I said, I can't find a player like him that was traded in the past decade.  He's a bonafide PPG 1C power forward that can win faceoffs, play PK, play PP, play with grit, a natural leader, and more.  I'd have a hard time even thinking of players like him, let alone ones that are traded with a low cap hit and term.

[shiznak]

22 minutes ago, HKSR said:

 

I'm not sure if you guys are giving enough credit to JT Miller.

 

When you look at a larger sample size (ie. 3 years), JT Miller is 33rd in even strength points across the entire league.  He is 14th amongst all centres.

 

I don't know why he is worth less because he's effective on the PP either.  Wherever he goes, he is more than likely to be on the 1st PP unit anyways.  So I don't see why his production would drop. 

 

The fact his PPG average is higher than any of the previously mentioned comparables by quite a fair margin would make him just as valuable, if not more valuable.  He has term left on his deal.  His cap hit is lower than all of them except one.  He literally plays in every situation imaginable in a hockey game.  Even his faceoff % is up there at 53.5%. 

 

Honestly, if either of you can find a PPG centre that is under 30 years old that was traded in the past 10 years, I'm all ears.  I just couldn't think of one or find one while I was digging up names to compare him against.  That alone tells me this is a rare situation (ie. the trading of a PPG 1st line centre in his prime).

The Chytil, Schneider, and a 1st; proposal that everyone is mentioning is pretty much more than what Vegas paid for Eichel.

 

Are you saying Miller’s value is greater/on par with Eichel?

 

 

[JM_]

2 minutes ago, shiznak said:

The Chytil, Schneider, and a 1st; proposal that everyone is mentioning is pretty much more than what Vegas paid for Eichel.

 

Are you saying Miller’s value is greater/on par with Eichel?

 

 

not a healthy JE. One who's undergoing a major surgery, yeah. 

[shiznak]

14 minutes ago, HKSR said:

I understand where you're coming from.  Stone was also in his UFA year which decreased his value.  JT Miller has 2 playoff runs left at a very manageable cap hit like you mentioned.

 

O'Reilly was almost 0.20 PPG less.  Selke or not, 0.20 PPG is the equivalent of 16 points over the course of a year.  That's significant.  He also carried a $7.5M cap hit.

 

Patches value is probably close to where JT Miller is at now.  Yep, Patches scored more goals, but JT Miller brings more points, and arguable more intangibles.  Not to mention Miller is a centre which naturally has more value.  I don't see Tatar as a throw in.  He was a 5-time 20 goal scorer.  If he's a throw in, count me in for 3 of him for Dickinson lol. 

Tatar was an established top 6 forward.  Suzuki was a very highly touted prospect.  And then a 2nd round pick added as well.  I'd be happy with a package like that.

 

Miller is anomaly... like I said, I can't find a player like him that was traded in the past decade.  He's a bonafide PPG 1C power forward that can win faceoffs, play PK, play PP, play with grit, a natural leader, and more.  I'd have a hard time even thinking of players like him, let alone ones that are traded with a low cap hit and term.

O’Reilly was also signed for 6 more years, which is a bargain in today’s cap world. New York is basically trading the future for a year and a half of Miller, which they won’t be able to re-sign once his current contract is up.

Tartar was a throw-in to cancel Max’s caphit.

 

Edited January 20, 2022 by shiznak

[HKSR]

Just now, shiznak said:

The Chytil, Schneider, and a 1st; proposal that everyone is mentioning is pretty much more than what Vegas paid for Eichel.

 

Are you saying Miller’s value is greater/on par with Eichel?

 

 

I don't think that's accurate.  There's a few reasons for this.

 

Tuch is a far more established player than Chytil.  Tuch already had four 15-20 goal campaigns under his belt including a couple seasons where he had a 50 to 60pt pace.  Tuch has also excelled in the playoffs. 

Being generous, Chytil has 2 years of about 15 goals and 30 points under his belt.  Chytil has yet to see much playoff action, but in 3 games, he had very little impact.

 

Schneider and Krebs are probably similar in value.

 

A 3rd round pick was included with Eichel to pull a package of Tuch, Krebs, 1st, and 2nd. 

 

The important thing here was that Eichel was also damaged goods with high risk.  He was about to enter a major surgery.  Why do you think it took so long to trade him? 

Like I mentioned above, Miller is 36th in games played across the entire NHL over a 3 year period.  He's extremely durable and built for playoff hockey.

 

Eichel also carries a $10M cap hit.  Not many teams were willing to take on that, even if it's Eichel... a damaged Eichel with question marks.

You could afford almost 2 Millers for that cap hit.  I'd take 2 JT Millers over 1 Eichel any time.

[HKSR]

10 minutes ago, shiznak said:

O’Reilly was also signed for 6 more years, which is a bargain in today’s cap world. New York is basically trading the future for a year and a half of Miller, which they won’t be able to re-sign once his current contract is up.

Tartar was a throw-in to cancel Max’s caphit.

 

At the time that O'Reilly was traded, he was making $7.5M AAV.  I'd say he was fair value.  Not a bargain. 

 

Like I mentioned, Tatar was a proven 20 goal scorer for 5 consecutive years.  That's not a throw in.  He had a lot of value.  A throw in is Antoinne Roussel and Jay Beagle.

 

Oh, and I guess it's fair to also mention that Tatar was traded earlier that year for a 1st round pick, a 2nd round pick, and a 3rd round pick.  If Tatar is a throw in, then I think we could probably land several draft picks for Dickinson, Poolman, and maybe even Schenn

 

Edited January 20, 2022 by HKSR

[shiznak]

18 minutes ago, HKSR said:

I don't think that's accurate.  There's a few reasons for this.

 

Tuch is a far more established player than Chytil.  Tuch already had four 15-20 goal campaigns under his belt including a couple seasons where he had a 50 to 60pt pace.  Tuch has also excelled in the playoffs. 

Being generous, Chytil has 2 years of about 15 goals and 30 points under his belt.  Chytil has yet to see much playoff action, but in 3 games, he had very little impact.

 

Schneider and Krebs are probably similar in value.

 

A 3rd round pick was included with Eichel to pull a package of Tuch, Krebs, 1st, and 2nd. 

 

The important thing here was that Eichel was also damaged goods with high risk.  He was about to enter a major surgery.  Why do you think it took so long to trade him? 

Like I mentioned above, Miller is 36th in games played across the entire NHL over a 3 year period.  He's extremely durable and built for playoff hockey.

 

Eichel also carries a $10M cap hit.  Not many teams were willing to take on that, even if it's Eichel... a damaged Eichel with question marks.

You could afford almost 2 Millers for that cap hit.  I'd take 2 JT Millers over 1 Eichel any time.

If you think Eichel was damaged goods, then you could say the same thing about Tuch and Krebs, since both were coming off major surgeries. 
 

Despite his neck injury, Eichel was over a ppg player in his last three seasons……..so surely he should be worth more than Miller?

 

15 minutes ago, HKSR said:

At the time that O'Reilly was traded, he was making $7.5M AAV.  I'd say he was fair value.  Not a bargain. 

 

Like I mentioned, Tatar was a proven 20 goal scorer for 5 consecutive years.  That's not a throw in.  He had a lot of value.  A throw in is Antoinne Roussel and Jay Beagle.

 

Oh, and I guess it's fair to also mention that Tatar was traded earlier that year for a 1st round pick, a 2nd round pick, and a 3rd round pick.  If Tatar is a throw in, then I think we could probably land several draft picks for Dickinson, Poolman, and maybe even Schenn

 

Throw-in as Montreal was force to take on Tartar’s contract to match Max’s caphit. Its the same reason why we threw in Roussel and Beagle in the OEL trade.

Edited January 20, 2022 by shiznak

[HKSR]

Just now, shiznak said:

If you think Eichel was damaged goods, then you could say the same thing about Tuch and Krebs, since both were coming off major surgeries. 
 

Despite his neck injury, Eichel was over a ppg player in his last three season……so surely he should be worth more than Miller?

 

Throw-in as Montreal was force to take on Tartar’s contract to match Max’s caphit. Its the same reason why we threw in Roussel and Beagle in the OEL trade.

Tuch and Krebs were coming OFF their surgeries.  And for the record, neither one was anywhere near as major as Eichel's.  Eichel had yet to go in for surgery.  Eichel's surgery was as major as it gets. 

 

Eichel has a 1.08 PPG over 3 years.  Miller at 0.98 PPG.  That's an 8 point difference between them over the course of 82 games.  If you feel 8 points is worth a nearly $5M difference in cap hit, then sure... Eichel is worth way more than Miller   Assuming Eichel even plays 80 games.

 

Eichel has played 89 games over 3 years. Think about that.  89 games over 3 friggin years.  If you don't think that has a MAJOR impact on a player's value, then I'm done with this conversation as I'm talking to a brick wall lol.

 

PS - Tatar was worth a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd round pick.  He was clearly not a throw in.  I can't believe you literally compared his value to Roussel and Beagle lmao

 

 

[shiznak]

22 minutes ago, HKSR said:

Tuch and Krebs were coming OFF their surgeries.  And for the record, neither one was anywhere near as major as Eichel's.  Eichel had yet to go in for surgery.  Eichel's surgery was as major as it gets. 

 

Eichel has a 1.08 PPG over 3 years.  Miller at 0.98 PPG.  That's an 8 point difference between them over the course of 82 games.  If you feel 8 points is worth a nearly $5M difference in cap hit, then sure... Eichel is worth way more than Miller   Assuming Eichel even plays 80 games.

 

Eichel has played 89 games over 3 years. Think about that.  89 games over 3 friggin years.  If you don't think that has a MAJOR impact on a player's value, then I'm done with this conversation as I'm talking to a brick wall lol.

 

PS - Tatar was worth a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd round pick.  He was clearly not a throw in.  I can't believe you literally compared his value to Roussel and Beagle lmao

 

 

Tuch just recently came back. Eichel is already skating just after three weeks of his surgery and could return by the end of February.

 

Eichel has 5 more years remaining on his contract and despite his neck injury is a proven 30+ goals scorer (at least on pace). While the Rangers will only be getting a year and a half of Miller and then lose him to free agency. Miller’s next contract will probably be upwards to 8M. Do you think the Rangers are willing to pay three future pieces, for a year and a half of Miller?
 

The point per game is a moot point once Miller’s next contract comes into play. If Miller keeps up his production, he’s going to get upwards to 8M+ on his next contract. If you ask me who would I rather have Miller at 8M or Eichel at 10M. I think I’ll take a risk of Eichel’s injury and pick the latter (this coming from me, who thinks Eichel is overrated).

 

I can assure you, that Vegas does not make the Pacioretty trade if Montreal doesn’t take on Tartar’s contract.

Edited January 20, 2022 by shiznak

[HKSR]

6 minutes ago, shiznak said:

Tuch just recently came back. Eichel is already skating just after three weeks of his surgery and could return by the end of February.

 

Eichel has 5 more years remaining on his contract and despite his neck injury is a proven 30+ goals scorer (at least on pace). While the Rangers will only be getting a year and a half of Miller and then lose him to free agency. Miller’s next contract will probably be upwards to 8M. Do you think the Rangers are willing to pay three future pieces, for a year and a half of Miller?
 

The point per game is a moot point once Miller’s next contract comes into play. If Miller keeps up his production, he’s going to get upwards to 8M+ on his next contract. If you ask me who would I rather have Miller at 8M or Eichel at 10M. I think I’ll take a risk of Eichel’s injury and pick the latter (this coming from me, who thinks Eichel is overrated).

Eichel is skating NOW.  When the trade was made, there were LOTS of questions about his health.  Like I said, why do you think it took so long to trade him?  Teams were not confident about his health.  Heck, some people were even questioning whether he would ever play again.  We have yet to see him play, so there's no guarantee he'll be the same player he once was.  So there are STILL question marks over his health.

 

Why do you feel Miller won't be re-signed by NYR?  Strome is a UFA with $4.5M coming off the books.  Miller basically replaces Strome, so a $3.5M increase in their overall cap.  Their defence is already set for years.  I see no issue with Miller re-signing with NYR. 

 

I don't think the PPG argument is a moot point.  We are talking about their value at the time of trade.  RIGHT NOW... Miller is worth what I've indicated in this thread.

[IBatch]

59 minutes ago, HKSR said:

I understand where you're coming from.  Stone was also in his UFA year which decreased his value.  JT Miller has 2 playoff runs left at a very manageable cap hit like you mentioned.

 

O'Reilly was almost 0.20 PPG less.  Selke or not, 0.20 PPG is the equivalent of 16 points over the course of a year.  That's significant.  He also carried a $7.5M cap hit.

 

Patches value is probably close to where JT Miller is at now.  Yep, Patches scored more goals, but JT Miller brings more points, and arguable more intangibles.  Not to mention Miller is a centre which naturally has more value.  I don't see Tatar as a throw in.  He was a 5-time 20 goal scorer.  If he's a throw in, count me in for 3 of him for Dickinson lol. 

Tatar was an established top 6 forward.  Suzuki was a very highly touted prospect.  And then a 2nd round pick added as well.  I'd be happy with a package like that.

 

Miller is anomaly... like I said, I can't find a player like him that was traded in the past decade.  He's a bonafide PPG 1C power forward that can win faceoffs, play PK, play PP, play with grit, a natural leader, and more.  I'd have a hard time even thinking of players like him, let alone ones that are traded with a low cap hit and term.

Personally i'd rather have Stone on my team all things being equal.  Watched a lot of him in OTT, he's a better player.   O'Reilly i don't know as much about as far as actually watching him play.   But do know he's up there with Bergeron as recent C selke types goes and both Buffalo and St. Louis didn't have/had premier forwards - to me he's not a lot different then Kesler was when he was healthy.   Would your say Miller is better then Kesler?  Nope. 

 

Patches also has intangibles.  He captained the Habs long enough, and was a perrenial 30-40 goal scorer.  And is a big body.    Miller isn't the best player to be traded in the past decade - that's probably Eichel - Stone was better, O'Reilly tough one given his age at the time call it a wash - Patches probably the closest but look at his pedigree, better then Miller's.  When that's guys healthy he absolutely helps Vegas.   It's all about trading high ... and Miller's stock has never been higher.   Sure he's better then Tatar ... but those other three guys have accomplished at least as much or more in their peak as well.   And when they got traded it was different.   Stone was probably the most underrated forward for two years.   O'Reilly was good in Buffualo, great in St. louis,  Patches about as consistent as you could ask for.   Miller isn't going to produce as well off the top PP.    And he's nothing like Stone or O'Reilly are on the PK or that side of the puck.