[Discussion] IF We Trade Miller, Then Also Trade ___(?)

[Coconuts]

I don't see Bo going anywhere, particularly if we move Miller. We'd be set to start next season with him and Pettersson as our top two guys. Wingers are easier to find than centers, and I'm comfortable with a Bo/Elias combo. The reality is that almost no team can afford the luxury of having three top six center's down the middle, you just don't see it. Even Pittsburgh having a legit high end guy on their third line in Kessel was an anomaly. 

 

But if we move Miller I could see other guys going. Maybe Schenn? He's a depth guy, but he just won back to back cups with Tampa. Doesn't really move the needle capwise, but I could see it. 

 

I could see Boeser maybe going, depending on where management is at with him regarding an extension. They aren't going to like that qualifying offer, he hasn't earned that number this season. I think they'd prefer to keep him, but I don't see them wanting to go to arbitration. 

 

I think they keep Garland, but I could see Pearson going either way. He's a complimentary middle six tweener who does a lot of good things, he's good in the room, but he's a streaky player offensively. 

 

Maybe Dickinson? But I'm inclined to think he'll probably stay. Possibly Motte, I know Rutherford likes him but it depends on what Motte wants and how management sees their cap playing out. I'm alright with Motte staying. 

 

Could see them seeing if there's a taker for Hamonic, he's been a non-factor most of the season given how little he's been in the lineup. Probably wouldn't be much of a return, but it'd free up space. 

 

I'd be surprised if Myers goes anywhere, I don't see him being extended but I figure he'll be here for the duration of his contract. 

 

 

[Sbriggs]

2 hours ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

Short & sweet. Team's playing great now, but cap troubles will soon rear it's ugly head.

 

JT Miller should get a shot at the silver. Should he go, we step back(but also get younger, & likely deeper in youth).

The Question: Who's another 4-5 mill AAV we should also unload, if the price is right?

 

Right now I'd prob say Bo. Imagine the stash of youth we could add, dealing these two?

 

Then we'd build around QH, TD, EP, BB & Pod-monster. It's a high-octane, REVAMP, L & G...

 

 

I agree Miller & Bo would bring a very good return, would have to be a top 2 C coming back along with a wholelotta picks and prospects

[spook007]

2 hours ago, Heretic said:

IF We Trade Miller, Then Also Trade Nuxfanabroad!

[aGENT]

 

 

[J.I.A.H.N]

1 hour ago, VegasCanuck said:

Personal opinion, I think with the right moves, our window opens next season. I think we have a pretty solid core in place if we round out middle six scoring.

 

I love how Motte plays, but considering Lockwood hasn't looked out of place in his short visits here, and that Lockwood and Highmore play similar game and aren't turning UFA, I would trade Motte for either a solid 3rd line prospect or a 2nd / 3rd round pick at the deadline.

 

Other trade chips, if I look at who can play RW, we've got Boeser, Garland, Motte (currently, really think they will move him), Podkolzin, Hoglander, Lammikko (better suited for center), and Highmore. Lockwood plays RW, and is looking pretty close to ready, and I'd say that Klimovich is about 18 months away from being NHL ready.

 

To me, looking at that list, we're fairly good down the right side, and Boeser is the best chip to help remake our defense and bottom 6. That would still leave us immediately with Garland Hoglander and Podkolzin to handle top 9, RW. 

 

Although some of the guys above are able to play LW as well, our natural LW's are, Miller, Pearson, Dowling, and we really don't have a lot on the farm or in prospects past McDonough, and as good as he looks, we don't really know how his abilities are going to translate to the NHL.

 

The right move of an asset from the RW, could dramatically strengthen our Left side as well as round out our defense for years to come.

 

Will wait to see what happens, but my opinion, we're weaker at center, would rather keep Miller, keep Pettersson on LW for now, move Boeser and Motte and round out Left side and Defense. Time will tell if JR agrees with me....

 

Well, I will say this, we have a decent RW group, but our strongest position right now is Center, with Miller, Horvat and Pettersson. They would all be #1 centers on 1/2 the teams in the NHL, and certainly 2nd line centers on all the rest. That is for sure the strongest position on the team.

 

Now the question I ask is, if we can move a center for a RHD of equal or Potential equal value, are we not over all better off? I say yes! Which is the entire point of moving Miller.

 

Because in a perfect world, I keep all and draft a guaranteed RHD prospect who is a #1/#2, and 6'5" and 220 lbs, but we know there are not any guarantees, and no prospects like that in the area of our first. The closest is to trade for a prospect that is close to playing.............I could give you a long list of wishfull thinking players, but that is not going to happen, which brings us exactly to where we are now..............by the way..........

 

Speaking of RW depth.........read this

 

Boeser......................first line RWer

Hoglander.................3rd line RWer

Podkolzin..................1/2/3 line RWer, to be announced at a later date!

Lockwood.................4th line RWer

Garland needed on the LW side

Motte traded.............see Lockwood

 

that is my 5 cents worth!

[Nuxfanabroad]

4 hours ago, Heretic said:

IF We Trade Miller, Then Also Trade Nuxfanabroad!

Ouch! :^(

[D-Money]

1 hour ago, J.I.A.H.N said:

Well, I will say this, we have a decent RW group, but our strongest position right now is Center, with Miller, Horvat and Pettersson. They would all be #1 centers on 1/2 the teams in the NHL, and certainly 2nd line centers on all the rest. That is for sure the strongest position on the team.

 

Almost every team in the league has at least one center at least marginally better than Horvat and the current version of EP. Some have two:

 

Edmonton - McDavid, Draisaitl

Colorado - MacKinnon, Kadri (this year, anyways)

Toronto - Matthews, Tavares

 

 

[VegasCanuck]

2 hours ago, J.I.A.H.N said:

Well, I will say this, we have a decent RW group, but our strongest position right now is Center, with Miller, Horvat and Pettersson. They would all be #1 centers on 1/2 the teams in the NHL, and certainly 2nd line centers on all the rest. That is for sure the strongest position on the team.

 

Now the question I ask is, if we can move a center for a RHD of equal or Potential equal value, are we not over all better off? I say yes! Which is the entire point of moving Miller.

 

Because in a perfect world, I keep all and draft a guaranteed RHD prospect who is a #1/#2, and 6'5" and 220 lbs, but we know there are not any guarantees, and no prospects like that in the area of our first. The closest is to trade for a prospect that is close to playing.............I could give you a long list of wishfull thinking players, but that is not going to happen, which brings us exactly to where we are now..............by the way..........

 

Speaking of RW depth.........read this

 

Boeser......................first line RWer

Hoglander.................3rd line RWer

Podkolzin..................1/2/3 line RWer, to be announced at a later date!

Lockwood.................4th line RWer

Garland needed on the LW side

Motte traded.............see Lockwood

 

that is my 5 cents worth!

I agree with you that we're supposed to be strong down center, but am really wondering if Pettersson will be truly effective at center. My concern is his 40% faceoff win rate. I hope that improves, but am wondering if he might be better suited to LW.

 

If he develops improves that ratio, then awesome. Am really sorry that we lost Malhotra as I think he's a big part of Horvat's success on the draw.

[Nuxfanabroad]

In the situation I was imagining(granted early morn in Asia; tired, yet enjoying some Glenfiddich), the team is still rolling along, quite nicely. So one would think we would close up the market stall. But then an offer arrives that knocks everyone's socks off. Say the Rags go all-in for 2 runs with JT.

 

After the deal we still play well, but PO's are questionable. Due to the scarcity of C's, another offer arrives(like including Lundell, for example) for Bo.

 

Imagine we exited the season, with 2 more GREAT young C's, a fine Rhd prospect & a couple more picks to boot?

 

- Suddenly, you're looking at yrs of running a roster with significant ELC-contributors(like 2018 - 2026ish, almost a decade)

- Very talented(& exp'd), yet we'd still be in the youngest 20% bracket of NHL rosters

- Contracts like Boeser's are no trouble at all

- You might even deal a RW(as Vegas mentioned, up-thread) for 1 more fine, D-youth

 

& who knows, maybe 1 of Bo or JT does win it all? Maybe they'd like to return here, as a vet UFA? Not impossible, as it seems this team has a friendly culture of committed team mates.

 

If the above were to occur, it'd cap off a comprehensive, speedy rebuild(on steroids). Where you are(in the mid 2020's) is likely miles ahead of where you woulda' been, otherwise.

 

[J.I.A.H.N]

34 minutes ago, D-Money said:

 

Almost every team in the league has at least one center at least marginally better than Horvat and the current version of EP. Some have two:

 

Edmonton - McDavid, Draisaitl

Colorado - MacKinnon, Kadri (this year, anyways)

Toronto - Matthews, Tavares

 

 

JT Miller over the 3 years in Vancouver, is 9th in scoring for centers................in the whole league

 

Now yes, he has not played all the time at center, but his scoring does not dip when playing center

 

So, I am a little confused with your comment

 

Bo Horvat is 28th in scoring in the last 3 years, and better than 20 of the 27 ahead of him in faceoffs

 

Again, I am a little confused? 

 

Pettersson is 33rd in scoring over the same time, including his injury time

 

 

 

Edited January 20, 2022 by J.I.A.H.N

[J.I.A.H.N]

17 minutes ago, VegasCanuck said:

I agree with you that we're supposed to be strong down center, but am really wondering if Pettersson will be truly effective at center. My concern is his 40% faceoff win rate. I hope that improves, but am wondering if he might be better suited to LW.

 

If he develops improves that ratio, then awesome. Am really sorry that we lost Malhotra as I think he's a big part of Horvat's success on the draw.

I do understand your position and agree it is not good

 

But McKinnon is only 4 percentage points better in the F/O circle

 

Is he going to be moved to winger

 

Barzal is only 3.4% better

 

But your point is he has a lot of improving to do....which I agree with

[VegasCanuck]

2 minutes ago, J.I.A.H.N said:

I do understand your position and agree it is not good

 

But McKinnon is only 4 percentage points better in the F/O circle

 

Is he going to be moved to winger

 

Barzal is only 3.4% better

 

But your point is he has a lot of improving to do....which I agree with

Good, valid point!

[J.I.A.H.N]

@VegasCanuck

 

also only 2 % or less the first 2 years

 

I think his injury and recovery also took a toll on his F/O percentage

[VegasCanuck]

12 minutes ago, J.I.A.H.N said:

@VegasCanuck

 

also only 2 % or less the first 2 years

 

I think his injury and recovery also took a toll on his F/O percentage

I think he's still dealing with an injury. the shiftiness that he exhibited 2 years ago, has been absent, it has really looked at times, like he's afraid to stick handle out there. Defensively, he's sound, we just haven't been seeing those tape to tape breakout passes we were seeing before.

 

Hope he continues to turn it around, he's been looking better the last few games.

[Father Ryan]

5 hours ago, J.I.A.H.N said:

IMO, and looking at our roster and who may be able to replace any traded players...........if this is the year JR puts his stamp on the team, and moves players, I see this as the following...........................

 

#1. Miller............huge return.........think blue chip prospect and multiple picks, maybe in a multiple player trade

 

#2. Motte............with Motte's contract coming up and him not being a center, I see him as replaceable....value late 2nd/early 3rd.....

 

#3. Halak............these are the type of players that moved at TDL to contending teams..........value late 2nd (lol...not what I said in another post)

 

#4. Hamonic.......who is a decent player, and would be a great addition to a playoff team.....but IMO, it is not  working out in Vancouver

IF Miller is traded, then unless the player coming back is an established center, then I think it will be because Rutherford is thinking long term. If so, then maybe add Boeser to Minnesota for Jordan Greenway and a 2nd. He is an RFA after this year. He has size, playmaking skills that just might mesh with Bo, plays both LW/RW and doesn't appear (on paper) to be afraid of a little contact. Plus, much cheaper to resign. Instead of a qualifying offer of 7.5M, he should be looking to match or just slight raise his current 2.1M. That 5M could really come in handy. Biggest flaw is see is that he doesn't appear to have a really good acquaintance with the back of the net (12 goals a career high)

 

The four you've listed are pretty much the obvious targets, in terms of return, need to get something instead of nothing and clearing out deadwood. 

[Elias Pettersson]

6 hours ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

So who plays centre?

You trade Bo AND Miller. You would need 2 centres in return, in addition to a centre prospect that can play next year at least. 

2 of which have to be able to play RIGHT NOW. 

Unless you are looking to tank? 

Yeah we're not trading BOTH Miller and Horvat...

[D-Money]

1 hour ago, J.I.A.H.N said:

JT Miller over the 3 years in Vancouver, is 9th in scoring for centers................in the whole league

 

Now yes, he has not played all the time at center, but his scoring does not dip when playing center

 

So, I am a little confused with your comment

 

Bo Horvat is 28th in scoring in the last 3 years, and better than 20 of the 27 ahead of him in faceoffs

 

Again, I am a little confused? 

 

Pettersson is 33rd in scoring over the same time, including his injury time

 

I didn't mention Miller. I said that most teams have at least 1 center who is better than Horvat and/or Pettersson - especially the way Pettersson is playing now - and some have 2. Are you disagreeing with that?

[J.I.A.H.N]

36 minutes ago, D-Money said:

I didn't mention Miller. I said that most teams have at least 1 center who is better than Horvat and/or Pettersson - especially the way Pettersson is playing now - and some have 2. Are you disagreeing with that?

Well

 

Miller.......we will pass on

 

Horvat is more a Bergeron type Center, not a big scorer, but holds his own, but does so many other things well. Aka F/0's

IMO, if you put him in with Half the top 32 , he comes out on top, much like what he did for so many years pre Miller and Pettersson

 

Pettersson was ranked as the 5th best player under 25, as late as this past summer. Yes, there is no argument that he was really struggling, but he seems to be slowly coming out of his funk......the stats I quoted earlier, include this funk, which IMO had to do with injury, illness, weakness from illness, lack of confidence caused by a coach that did not kn ow what to do..........not in the coaches DNA

 

BB, has taken alot of pressure off of Pettey, just by the coaches demeanor...............IMO, he is rounding into form, and just in time!

 

It is all subjective, and I could be just as wrong as right. But I choose to see it half full.

[GB5]

Trading Miller as well as Bo is the making of a perpetual rebuild loop....... only we are not allowed to say rebuild.

[BigTramFan]

....then also trade....Hamonic (assuming the return on Miller brings a young RHD)