[Discussion] Time for JR to make his first big move (Boeser)

[guntrix]

Trading Miller just as he’s about to command a blockbuster deal and using his production to leverage a great haul for this team’s medium and long term plans would be the epitome of selling high. 
 

It’s clear that we won’t be able to keep all of Garland, Horvat, Boeser, Miller, Pettersson and Höglander on their new contracts, so the best thing to do for Rutherford and co. would be to give Benning a lesson on asset management. 

[Nuxfanabroad]

Good morning from Osaka, & it's onto the 2nd cup of beans. Just scanned a few pages, wondering if there were mention(of the 3 a?)..

 

That would be the 3 amigos. Get the vibe that EP, QH & Brock are solid bros who all wanna play here together(maybe 7 mill'ish', AAV?) for a number of yrs. Could that have been partly, what EP & Aqua were meeting about, after JB exited stage-left?

 

Y'all must recall(2 yrs back) when BB was first rumoured possibly on-market. EP seemed to make quite a fuss. At the time, I made a prop(was rather proud of:^) suggesting we should deal him to Minny for a pkg including Greenway & a 1st(they had 2 of them, back then).

 

If this inkling is true, we best run with the three amigos. & Hell, Brock's a bloody charmer that raises the cool-factor(for all 23 F***in' dudes) 'til they simply break the scale. With EP's outergalactic-eccentricity & QH's cuddliness, we're destined for compelling dominance! Just my 2 Yen...

[Alflives]

5 minutes ago, guntrix said:

Trading Miller just as he’s about to command a blockbuster deal and using his production to leverage a great haul for this team’s medium and long term plans would be the epitome of selling high. 
 

It’s clear that we won’t be able to keep all of Garland, Horvat, Boeser, Miller, Pettersson and Höglander on their new contracts, so the best thing to do for Rutherford and co. would be to give Benning a lesson on asset management. 

Excellent post.  

[JM_]

1 hour ago, aGENT said:

Nope one has little to do with the other, short of peripheral cap concerns. Personally, I'd move Miller regardless. It sounds like Rutherford (correctly IMO) has identified +/- 2-7 years from now as our young core's window. With Pettersson and Hughes in the meat of their primes.

 

EVERYTHING should be focused on making us as deep and competitive as possible in that window. A declining, depreciating, mid 30's, and $8m+ Miller does not. Sell high, multiply assets, and build for the contention window IMO.

 

Boeser, on the other hand, IS the right age to contribute to that window. His only real question is his skating. Rutherford will have to make a call on whether he thinks a not

-fast Boeser is best to retain, or move for other (faster) pieces.

 

Again, moving one does not preclude also moving the other. Separate discussions.

I believe this is going to be what JR and new GM try to do out of the gate. Get Boeser extended long term on something less than Petey's deal, move Miller to fill the high-end prospect gap as much as can be done in one trade. 

 

There isn't a lot of top end guys as UFA's this year. Maybe Hertl but if we're going to throw a truck of money at him, why not just keep Miller?

 

[JM_]

3 minutes ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

Good morning from Osaka, & it's onto the 2nd cup of beans. Just scanned a few pages, wondering if there were mention(of the 3 a?)..

 

That would be the 3 amigos. Get the vibe that EP, QH & Brock are solid bros who all wanna play here together(maybe 7 mill'ish', AAV?) for a number of yrs. Could that have been partly, what EP & Aqua were meeting about, after JB exited stage-left?

 

Y'all must recall(2 yrs back) when BB was first rumoured possibly on-market. EP seemed to make quite a fuss. At the time, I made a prop(was rather proud of:^) suggesting we should deal him to Minny for a pkg including Greenway & a 1st(they had 2 of them, back then).

 

If this inkling is true, we best run with the three amigos. & Hell, Brock's a bloody charmer that raises the cool-factor(for all 23 F***in' dudes) 'til they simply break the scale. With EP's outergalactic-eccentricity & QH's cuddliness, we're destined for compelling dominance! Just my 2 Yen...

I really want to visit Osaka. Must be a lovely place to be. 

 

And I agree on trying to keep the younger guys together. 

[alt kilgore]

Assuming Petey, Quinn, Demko, Hogs n Podz are off the table

 

If Rutherford can manage to only lose one of these players to trade, I'd be stoked:

 

Boeser,

Miller,

Horvat

I'd even include Garland and Motte.

 

If its two or more, its not going to be great for chemistry on the team.  We've dealt with that problem for a lot of JBs this-time-its-going-to-work seasons.  If its three or more of those players, we might as well call it another re-something.

 

A lot of speculation, but as long as we get a decent return. I'm prepped to lose at least one. Even Miller .  The last one I'd consider moving out of those. We have a lot of other pieces we can throw into second position add ons. Pearson, Highmore, Dickenson, Poolman, Schenn, Hamonic, Depeitro even?

 

Lets see just how creative this new not-the-actual-GM can be.  Its just been so long that we've had a GM who can pull off a steal for us, we don't know what its like. 

[I.Am.Ironman]

2 hours ago, Alflives said:

Miller hasn’t even invested in a condo, let alone a house, here.  IMHAO he is leaving after this contract is up.  

IF this is true, then that is yellow flag. As with anything, it depends on the return. I would trade Boeser before Miller but we absolutely need assets for Miller if he is planning to walk. It's a tough situation because Miller is our most important forward but Boeser is not worth the 7.5M he can claim.

[aGENT]

19 minutes ago, JM_ said:

I believe this is going to be what JR and new GM try to do out of the gate. Get Boeser extended long term on something less than Petey's deal, move Miller to fill the high-end prospect gap as much as can be done in one trade. 

 

There isn't a lot of top end guys as UFA's this year. Maybe Hertl but if we're going to throw a truck of money at him, why not just keep Miller?

 

Nor do I think we should be doing that either. Focus on the more affordable, shorter term requiring, holes via UFA. We don't need to go big game hunting.

 

3C (Paul/Tierney/Sturm), maybe a backup  (if we don't use one of Martin, MDP etc) and if we manage to move Hamonic, a guy like Lyubushkin. Maybe a hard minute, PK'ing 3LD as well. Bonus if you can nab a guy like Bjustad for 4C (otherwise I'm happy to explore our internal options there as well - Lammiko, Focht, Jasek etc)

 

None of those should break the bank in cap or require more than 2-4 years of term.

 

No reason that can't be competitive.

 

Something like (wingers fluid):

 

Chytil, Horvat, Boeser

Podkolzin, Petterson, Garland

Pearson, Paul/Tierney/Sturm, Hoglander

Dickinson, Lammiko, Highmore

 

Jasek/Focht etc as spares

 

OEL, Myers

Hughes, Hamonic/Lyubushkin

UFA?, Schneider/Poolman

 

With Burroughs, Schenn, Rathbone, Woo, Juulsen  etc depth

Edited January 22, 2022 by aGENT

[I.Am.Ironman]

2 minutes ago, kilgore said:

A lot of speculation, but as long as we get a decent return. I'm prepped to lose at least one. Even Miller .  The last one I'd consider moving out of those. We have a lot of other pieces we can throw into second position add ons. Pearson, Highmore, Dickenson, Poolman, Schenn, Hamonic, Depeitro even?

 

Lets see just how creative this new not-the-actual-GM can be.  Its just been so long that we've had a GM who can pull off a steal for us, we don't know what its like. 

Agree with most of that but I think it can be argued that JT Miller was actually our last trade 'steal'.

[aGENT]

39 minutes ago, I.Am.Ironman said:

Agree with most of that but I think it can be argued that JT Miller was actually our last trade 'steal'.

Indeed. I'll add getting a retained OEL, and bargain rate Garland for spare parts and inefficient-to-dead cap, was another.

 

And this is exactly how you build a contender. Keep building, keep adding. Focus your assets towards a contention window.

 

There's work to be done to get us there, and I'm thrilled Rutherford is in charge to help us take those next steps, but Benning left him loads to work with.

[BPA]

The OP has quoted an October speculation of Brock’s next deal.  However, that was probably with the projection of continuing his goals/point total trends.

 

Its January and Brock is nowhere near being able to command the original projections.

 

Brock has 34gp 10g 9a 19pts.  There’s 42 games left.  He’s on pace for about 50pts with 20-ish goals.  Sorry but that’s not going to get you $8M plus term.

 

I think Brock is worth around $6.5M x 6yr.

 

Just look at Sam Reinhardt.  His point totals are comparable to Brock’s.  He signed a $6.5M x 3yr deal with Florida.

 

Maybe bump up Brock’s deal to be closer to $7M cuz crappy CDN $ and taxes but that’s it.

 

 

[I.Am.Ironman]

1 minute ago, BPA said:

Maybe bump up Brock’s deal to be closer to $7M cuz crappy CDN $ and taxes but that’s it.

 

The Canadian dollar would help Brock because they get paid in USD. Getting paid in USD and having expenses in CAD is a win.

[aGENT]

2 minutes ago, BPA said:

The OP has quoted an October speculation of Brock’s next deal.  However, that was probably with the projection of continuing his goals/point total trends.

 

Its January and Brock is nowhere near being able to command the original projections.

 

Brock has 34gp 10g 9a 19pts.  There’s 42 games left.  He’s on pace for about 50pts with 20-ish goals.  Sorry but that’s not going to get you $8M plus term.

 

I think Brock is worth around $6.5M x 6yr.

 

Just look at Sam Reinhardt.  His point totals are comparable to Brock’s.  He signed a $6.5M x 3yr deal with Florida.

 

Maybe bump up Brock’s deal to be closer to $7M cuz crappy CDN $ and taxes but that’s it.

 

 

 

Yup, IMO he gets a +/- $6.5m-$7m x 6 year deal. Bunch of panicky Pollyanna's around here. 

[hammertime]

1 hour ago, aGENT said:

Meh, Horvat can 1C (or they can be 1a and 1b... However you want to look at it), until Petey gets closer to his prime and takes over. Not worried about that. Supplement them with a good 3C like Paul/Sturm/Tierney (which with Chytil should roughly equal out to Miller's current hit, and without the long term commitment) and keep on rolling.

 

As for Miller, absolutely. You don't "replace" Miller. But if he doesn't fit in your window, he doesn't fit. Trying to shoehorn him in just sets us back long term, in that window. We need players like Miller, just not likely to be Miller specifically.

Horvat can't 1c with no 2c or 3c...... And really if Horvat is your 1c you havn't really built your team right.  I do't really see how he doesn't fit our window he's 28 not 33

Edited January 22, 2022 by hammertime

[aGENT]

Just now, hammertime said:

Horvat can't 1c with no 2c or 3c...... And really if Horvat is your 1c you havn't really built your team right.  

Did you read nothing I wrote after "Horvat can 1C..."?

 

Petterson (for now, until he consistently outplays Horvat) would be 2C. Or again, 1C "A" and 1C "B", however you choose to see that. We sign one of Paul/Tierney/Sturm etc as 3C.

 

Horvat would be 1C on a LOT of teams in the NHL. And again, this is only until Peterrson (who JUST turned a mere 23 years old), plays past him. 

[hammertime]

Just now, aGENT said:

Horvat would be 1C on a LOT of teams in the NHL. And again, this is only until Peterrson (who JUST turned a mere 23 years old), plays past him. 

Any of those teams any good?

[khay]

Boeser projects as 30G 60+ point player on a full season. Obviously, he hasn't hit 30 goals nor 60 points yet because he never had a full season. But I like Boeser and see him as part of the core group here.

 

I would like to see JR lock up Boeser on a long term deal at no more than 7 mil. That way, he gets some security while not being too far off in salary compared to the best player on the team (Hughes).

 

QH, EP, BB, BH, OEL at around 7.5 mil avg cap hit + Demko at 5 mil gives us a core of 3F2D1G for 42 mil. 

 

Boeser at anything over 8 mil doesn't make any sense. 7.5 mil QO also doesn't make sense. If that's the route the Boeser wants to go, then yes, it's time to trade him.

If we can lock up Boeser to 7 mil x 5 or 6 year deal or something similar. Then, I'd rather trade Miller and get a king's ransom to retool the team.

 

I like Miller but he has all the leverage as a UFA and will easily commend 9 mil on a long term deal.

 

If Miller gets us Schneider and Lafreniere/Kakko, it fills two glaring holes in the organization (LW and RD). That's something that we can't do by trading Boeser, whose value to a playoff team is probably much lower than Miller.

 

Lafreniere/Kakko-EP-Boeser

Pearson-Horvat-Garland

Podz-Dickinson-Hog

Motte-Lammikko-Highmore

 

OEL-Myers

Hughes-Schneider

Poolman-Hamonic

 

I would consider trading Hamonic or Poolman and acquiring an LD either at TDL or in the offseason.

 

[aGENT]

1 minute ago, hammertime said:

Any of those teams any good?

Way to ignore the rest of the post . And yup.

[N4ZZY]

9 minutes ago, hammertime said:

Horvat can't 1c with no 2c or 3c...... And really if Horvat is your 1c you havn't really built your team right.  I do't really see how he doesn't fit our window he's 28 not 33

I don’t understand how if Bo is our #1 centre how the team isn’t built right? 

 

Horvat’s 26 by the way, not 28 years old. Miller is 28. 

 

 

[khay]

2 hours ago, hammertime said:

If JR is true to his word about being contenders in 2 years I see no reason why Miller would be past his best before. IMO he's got 4-5 peak years left. 

When did he say that? I missed it.

 

I thought he hasn't finished his assessment of the team?

 

If true, that's good news. That means he sees a lot of potential in the young core players here.