[Report] Canucks name Patrik Allvin as GM

[DefCon1]

39 minutes ago, 13231 said:

As with anything, there's no guarantee. The only person with a solid resume thus far is JR himself, but with how he left things in Pittsburgh, I am cautiously not as high on him as many people in the fan base are. The real evaluation of this hockey ops team will come from the trades, signings, and draft choices they makes over the next 12-18 months, not from how professionally they've talked to the media so far.  

 

It is also distasteful and ignorant to call Benning dumb. He did several great things for this organisation that will be appreciated with time. History will be kinder to him than many of the short sighted fans and media members that had a weird obsession with deeply scrutinizing his every move, majority of times without any relevant context or facts. 

 

This is a make or break moment in club history. If things are done right, we can become a perennial contender within 2-3 years. If not, we'll be back in a definite rebuild. Let's hope JR & co do the right things. 

So let me get this straight. You are not high on JR who won the cup back to back recently with the Pens as a GM and has 3 cups with 2 different teams. But on the other hand you defend Benning who hired Weisbrod, let Brackett and Malhotra go and had loyalty to Green and Baumgartner to a fault. He is the reaso  our team doesnt have any depth on D and still deploys an offensively inept bottom 6. The reason why we will miss the playoffs again while also have nothing in our farm team. He did draft well but then when you dont make playoffs for many years and end up as bottom 5 to 10 team, then you will also get to draft better players.

 

Your whole premise of defending Benning is based on the fact he made several good moves but you dont acknowledge the fact that we are atill a bottom 10 team.

[DefCon1]

 

 

[Ghostsof1915]

If Pat is remotely as good as Pat Quinn. Maybe we can have a team being built. 

Edited January 26, 2022 by Ghostsof1915

[13231]

23 minutes ago, DefCon1 said:

So let me get this straight. You are not high on JR who won the cup back to back recently with the Pens as a GM and has 3 cups with 2 different teams. But on the other hand you defend Benning who hired Weisbrod, let Brackett and Malhotra go and had loyalty to Green and Baumgartner to a fault. He is the reaso  our team doesnt have any depth on D and still deploys an offensively inept bottom 6. The reason why we will miss the playoffs again while also have nothing in our farm team. He did draft well but then when you dont make playoffs for many years and end up as bottom 5 to 10 team, then you will also get to draft better players.

 

Your whole premise of defending Benning is based on the fact he made several good moves but you dont acknowledge the fact that we are atill a bottom 10 team.

JR is a qualified hockey executive, nobody can take away his cups and his success with the teams he build in those years from him. He is however also responsible for a steep decline the Hurricanes endured in the last 5 years he was in charge, and his moves during his last few years in Pittsburgh were also baffling, to say the least. You cannot just acknowledge his cups & then completely void and ignore his shortcomings and failures that are also a part of his history, which hurt his teams long term. You are actually applying this one sided approach in your analysis of Benning, by focusing solely on his failures rather than accepting he also did some very good things to help set up our team long term. 

 

I have, and still stand by the fact that Benning's biggest mistake was hanging on to Green for as long as he did, which warranted his firing. I've said that on record on this board on at least 1 or 2 topics. But where you and I differ I suppose is that I'm not turning a blind eye to the other side of a person's tenure, and focusing singularly on a narrative that supports my opinion. Hockey is not something you can analyse by a black and white approach, you'll find a lot of answers when you acknowledge context and nuances.

 

And no, we are not a bottom 10 team. For the past few months, we have played some of the best hockey in the NHL with a roster Benning assembled, while being decimated with COVID and all sorts of restrictions AND while missing key pieces of our roster. I cannot even recall the last time we played with our entire roster intact, yet we are still keeping up with the playoff race, and winning or at least staying competitive against some of the league's best teams.

 

We are in a position to become a very good team, thanks to several moves Benning made, and thanks to Aquaman pulling the plug on Green and co. and bringing in a great coach in Boudreau. Now, it is up to JR and his selected front office to bring the team over the top. Will he do it? He certainly can, and I truly hope he does. But I am cautious and will wait to see the moves this front office makes before blindly getting on board just because JR has won some cups. So have Chiarelli, Holland, and several others. 

[spook007]

7 hours ago, MaxVerstappen33 said:

And they had one 1.st round pick in 6 years because JR spent them all 

It will be interesting to see if all the JR love will continue, if he start to use all our draft pick as well...

[ShawnAntoski]

8 hours ago, N4ZZY said:

I wonder what happened to the Darche rumors??? 

 

 

Darche was asking the wrong questions. 

 

It seems, funny that JR was able to move his Pitsburgh crew to Vancouver.  The whole situation, reminds me of the hiring process, for executives in most cooperation: the boss already, knew who she/he - he was going, to hire and all the interviews were just a show that they were looking.  In the end, these hires have a short self life: they either get promoted or fired - cronyism at its best.

 

I don't like the Allvin hiring, due to Pitsburgh drafting & development record when he was there. 

Edited January 26, 2022 by ShawnAntoski

[ShawnAntoski]

7 hours ago, 48MPHSlapShot said:

Not hitting on any later rd picks is still horrific. That's where your scouting is really supposed to come into play.

Only Gillis can match, his drafting record and it is not meant to be a complement.

 

Hope, I am wrong about, the crew when it comes to drafting & development - smh.  It seems, trade & FA, will the preferred route.

Edited January 26, 2022 by ShawnAntoski

[spook007]

7 hours ago, Me_ said:

Out of 4 drafts and 19 choices by Alvin as head of amateur drafting, one has played in the NHL:

 

53OA18 Calen Addison 

12GP 2G 1A 3Pts

 

Conversely in the last 4 years, the Canucks have produced:

 

10OA19 Podkolzin

39GP 7G 3A 10Pts

 

40OA19 Höglander

97GP 21G 21A 52Pts

 

7OA18 Hughes

169GP 13G 116A 129Pts

 

to be fair Podz and Hughes low'ish draft picks... take them away and you've got Addison v Hoggie... 

[spook007]

5 hours ago, N4ZZY said:

You might not be wrong. 

 

But he wanted a GM where he could mentor and shape. So you have to be somewhat of a yes person, and a person willing to listen and observe, before it's Allvin's full time gig. Because JR isn't going to be around forever. 

This is true...

And after working together, already part of the moulding has already taken place..

[IBatch]

8 hours ago, stawns said:

I think it's pretty clear this is a collaborative management team as opposed to one person carrying most of the power and calling the shots.

Rutherford and Co:  

[Timråfan]

1 hour ago, ShawnAntoski said:

Only Gillis can match, his drafting record and it is not meant to be a complement.

 

Hope, I am wrong about, the crew when it comes to drafting & development - smh.  It seems, trade & FA, will the preferred route.

Ok, so now the Canucks are after the Cup instead of drafting great… 

[Mike Vanderhoek]

9 hours ago, 48MPHSlapShot said:

Not hitting on any later rd picks is still horrific. That's where your scouting is really supposed to come into play.

Is Valtteri Puustinen not a late pick ? He is on the verge of NHL duty.

[ShawnAntoski]

2 hours ago, 13231 said:

JR is a qualified hockey executive, nobody can take away his cups and his success with the teams he build in those years from him. He is however also responsible for a steep decline the Hurricanes endured in the last 5 years he was in charge, and his moves during his last few years in Pittsburgh were also baffling, to say the least. You cannot just acknowledge his cups & then completely void and ignore his shortcomings and failures that are also a part of his history, which hurt his teams long term. You are actually applying this one sided approach in your analysis of Benning, by focusing solely on his failures rather than accepting he also did some very good things to help set up our team long term. 

 

I have, and still stand by the fact that Benning's biggest mistake was hanging on to Green for as long as he did, which warranted his firing. I've said that on record on this board on at least 1 or 2 topics. But where you and I differ I suppose is that I'm not turning a blind eye to the other side of a person's tenure, and focusing singularly on a narrative that supports my opinion. Hockey is not something you can analyse by a black and white approach, you'll find a lot of answers when you acknowledge context and nuances.

 

And no, we are not a bottom 10 team. For the past few months, we have played some of the best hockey in the NHL with a roster Benning assembled, while being decimated with COVID and all sorts of restrictions AND while missing key pieces of our roster. I cannot even recall the last time we played with our entire roster intact, yet we are still keeping up with the playoff race, and winning or at least staying competitive against some of the league's best teams.

 

We are in a position to become a very good team, thanks to several moves Benning made, and thanks to Aquaman pulling the plug on Green and co. and bringing in a great coach in Boudreau. Now, it is up to JR and his selected front office to bring the team over the top. Will he do it? He certainly can, and I truly hope he does. But I am cautious and will wait to see the moves this front office makes before blindly getting on board just because JR has won some cups. So have Chiarelli, Holland, and several others. 

" ......I am cautious and will wait to see the moves this front office makes before blindly getting on board just because JR has won some cups. So have Chiarelli, Holland, and several others."

 

Lots of good points and I agree, with your last statement.   The hiring process, of both Pitsburgh executives, is very underwhelming - due to there drafting & development record.  I preferred, Gorton or a younger executive from the CURRENT PERENNIAL CONTENDERS - over JR and I was hoping JR, would HAD ATLEAST picked, a GM that is outside his circle. 

 

Anyways, all the best to JR & crew.

Edited January 26, 2022 by ShawnAntoski

[thrago]

6 hours ago, N4ZZY said:

You might not be wrong. 

 

But he wanted a GM where he could mentor and shape. So you have to be somewhat of a yes person, and a person willing to listen and observe, before it's Allvin's full time gig. Because JR isn't going to be around forever. 

I hope you are right 100%.

[ShawnAntoski]

9 minutes ago, Timråfan said:

Ok, so now the Canucks are after the Cup instead of drafting great… 

Drafting & development is necessary, to have a sustainable winning model - is my point.  Chiapet & Holland have a cup; and the JR hiring, reminds me - to a certain degree, of when the Canucks signed Messier. 

 

Not sure, what you are really implying ?

Edited January 26, 2022 by ShawnAntoski

[thrago]

4 hours ago, N4ZZY said:

That 9th OA also did net us Garland. 

 

Yeah benning got good value on the 2 firsts he traded.

[Timråfan]

35 minutes ago, ShawnAntoski said:

Drafting & development is necessary, to have a sustainable winning model - is my point.  Chiapet & Holland have a cup; and the JR hiring, reminds me - to a certain degree, of when the Canucks signed Messier. 

 

Not sure, what you are really implying ?

The complaint about Gillis is that he drafted bad. If Allvin is like that we’re close to the cup.

One of the reasons is we draft later and get worse picks or trade them away for players ready as Benning did at the end of his tenure. 

[coryberg]

Surprise Surprise. The same posters that complained about every single move JB made (especially the good ones) are complaining about every single move JR has made.

[IBatch]

4 hours ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

If Pat is remotely as good as Pat Quinn. Maybe we can have a team being built. 

Yep.  Lumme for a second.  Bure despite Burke saying we still shouldn't draft him even though he did the leg work to see if we could, and of course the Butcher trade (and back then I really liked Butcher).... and the Nedved debacle ... which ended up becoming the best run this clubs ever had .... Thing is i don't quite agree - feel we need him to be a lot like Pat Quin  to make this work.   Remotely?   Then we are just going to get a lot of the same until the next GM. 

[ShawnAntoski]

1 hour ago, Timråfan said:

The complaint about Gillis is that he drafted bad. If Allvin is like that we’re close to the cup.

One of the reasons is we draft later and get worse picks or trade them away for players ready as Benning did at the end of his tenure. 

Your making the mistake, of focusing too much on the 1st round of the draft and I get it.  To add to my point about, drafting & development: a good/decent scouting staff should be capable of finding a few late round gems or a player past the 1st round -  ever so often, ie Tampa: 

 

2011: Kucherov in the 2nd and Palat in the 7th

2014: Point in the 3rd

2015: Cirrelli in the 3rd

*players still in there roster

 

In Pitsburgh, they had two generational talents (that was pick #1 & #2, in there respective draft) and if they drafted half, as good as Tampa they wouldn't have to trade there 1st round picks every year, in the past decade; and if you look, at the Rangers under Gorton - they hardly traded there 1st and now they have assets to trade, if they needed to add.   As for Gillis, his admission of his draft record, in an interview was admission, of a big oversight on his behalf.  There were a lot of things he did, that I like and if he had focused on a sustainable transition plan through the draft, when it was obvious the 2011 core was on the down side - by tweaking or fixing the scouting department; he might still be here ?  Perhaps, as PoHO.

 

https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/canucks-gm-mike-gillis-interview-2018

 

 

Edited January 26, 2022 by ShawnAntoski