With all due respect, I think the consensus on this board that Miller is getting traded before the TDL and the Canucks aren't making the playoffs is highly premature

[MeanSeanBean]

1 hour ago, hammertime said:

So which of Hughes Pete are we not signing in this alternate reality. 

Right, cause that trade would have been the only possible way to sign those guys.. Given that we only saved 4 million, I reckon we don't give Poolman such a hearty contract or don't sign Halak and go with a less proven backup? Maybe we don't sign Hamonic?  Or dump something closer to a mid/late round pick for someone to take Beagle. 

[Crabcakes]

15 minutes ago, Rindiculous said:

It wasn't a natural hat trick though, Copp scored in between...although they do both wear #9 so it could be more confusing.

You're a funny boy.  So I got it wrong.  What of it?  Is that our last hat trick then?  That was a long time ago

[Viper007]

18 minutes ago, Crabcakes said:

You're a funny boy.  So I got it wrong.  What of it?  Is that our last hat trick then?  That was a long time ago

No, it was our last hat trick against Winnipeg

[komodo0921]

6 hours ago, CanucksFan8353 said:

From scrolling through the threads over the last period of time, there seem to be 2 points of agreement on CDC:

 

1.  The Canucks aren't making the playoffs this year.

2. JT Miller is as good as gone and probably even before the TDL.

 

These two opinions, in my very humble opinion, are highly premature.  First, the team has run at a .650 winning percentage since Bruce "there it is" Boudreau" took over, which is stunning.  A .640 or less winning percentage henceforth gets us in.  Second, we just survived a COVID wave that nearly decimated the team with 4 points out 10 where we very possibly could have received zero.  We have a player who everyone in the league is drooling over who just did something last night that hasn't happened since Pavel Bure did it in 1994 before the Canucks made their magical run that year.  Fourthly, have you forgotten the 7 wins in 8 game streak, the winning 4/5 games before that, the easy schedule we have coming up in February.  Lastly, for you to believe the Canucks will miss the playoffs this year, you have to look at the standings and tell me that Dallas, Calgary, Edmonton and San Jose are such colossuses that there is no way we can catch them by the end of the regular season, as they are just so darn good while we are not.  Do you truly believe that?  Saying "too many teams" to jump over is intellectually lazy in my opinion.

 

As far as JT Miller goes, has AF from NY shown you ANYTHING to make you think that he will be as good as JT Miller?

 

Anyway, the consensus may be right and I may be wrong.  My only point here is that to have a consensus that the Canucks are out of the playoff race and JT Miller is basically 1 foot out the door already is highly premature.  For those of us still hoping for success, can you at least hold off on the Canucks obituaries until we see how February and the early half of March play out? Until we have Demko, Pearson, Horvat and Hamonic all back and healthy, etc.  Until we see if Sutter makes a return somehow?  Is there a need for the obits prematurely?

 

EDIT:  The Oilers fans were all on in the tanks and picks for years, and all it got them was a bubble playoff team and 1 round 2 game 7.  That strategy of tanking and trading hasn't worked out terribly well for them has it?

1. We are 7 points out of the third place spot in the Pacific and 3 points behind the last realistic spot in the West. Winnipeg, Edmonton, and Calgary, all have games at hand on us. Tomorrow's game against Calgary is massive and could, very well be the most important game of our season. The difference between one point and five points is equally massive. 

2. My personal preference is to re-sign Miller to a long-term deal but, as long as he doesn't express a desire to stay, it's not unfair to speculate his wish to move on. An interesting conversation with JB after last season revealed that a conversation took place between he and JTM of which JB said they had agreed that now was not the time for him to move. Now is not the time. Not a ringing endorsement for wanting to stay. He, again, had the oportunity to express a desire to stay, during his post-game interview when asked about the rumors around him. He had the opportunity to say he wanted to be a Canuck but, instead, sidestepped the question. Both sides say The NHL is a business. As any business man knows; Anything other then a yes is a no. JR doesn't seem to be one to beat around the bush. My feeling is that he already knows what JTM wants and is working to facilitate him. All indications are that he is seeking a trade to move Miller.

Another thing I must mention is JR stating he wants to get back to the youth movement, saying that The Canucks are not in the right phase of the rebuild to be trading away draft picks and prospects and that returning to the youth movement is a necessary reality. Getting a hefty return for a peaking JT Miller, in the form of prospects and picks sounds like a solid plan, given above thoughts.

I understand your desire for the best outcome but, given the current situation, it's not unreasonable to expect a different, perhaps, more plausible one.

[wai_lai416]

1 hour ago, Crabcakes said:

a natural hat trick, don't be obtuse

lol do you even know what a natural hat trick is?? it's only a natural hat trick if he scored 3 consecutive goal without anyone else scoring on either team in between... funny u call me obtuse while being wrong

Edited January 29, 2022 by wai_lai416

[wai_lai416]

1 hour ago, Crabcakes said:

You're a funny boy.  So I got it wrong.  What of it?  Is that our last hat trick then?  That was a long time ago

when was our last hat trick? last year? and then we had 3 in 2019? 12 hat tricks since 2015 seems pretty good

[DownUndaCanuck]

I would rather keep Miller and watch him decline over the next 5 years than trade him for a 1st round pick or even someone like Lafrenniere (best case scenario). We've got a >PPG big strong leader of a 1st line center, there's about 5-10 of them in the NHL. Miller, Petey and Bo are a perfect trio of centers who will naturally share and progress/regress over the next few years and interchange roles. 

 

If we're trading Miller we might as well go for an all-out sell and rebuild. which I doubt anyone wants. Nothing we get back will be better than what he is right now and for the next 5 years so I say we keep him. Even when he's 33 he'll be a perfect 3rd line checking center for us.

 

If NYR offered us Kakko and a 1st I'd still say no. That's a late 1st round pick for a GM who's had a bad drafting history and Kakko who's not really proven himself to be the scorer everyone thought. Two pieces which look great but could turn into busts for a top-10 player in the league...

[Elias Pettersson]

8 hours ago, -AJ- said:

Especially ones we really want to keep. I heard a rumour from a NY media reporter that JR's asking price was "astronomical", which pleased me.

The ask is probably Braden Schneider, Alexis Lafreniere and a 1st round pick.  That SHOULD be what we get if Miller is actually dealt.

[-AJ-]

50 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

The ask is probably Braden Schneider, Alexis Lafreniere and a 1st round pick.  That SHOULD be what we get if Miller is actually dealt.

That's the return that's been on my mind.

[IBatch]

4 hours ago, wai_lai416 said:

So did we find out what happened last night that was so spectacular no one since Bure in 94 manage to do yet?

That is the only part of the OPs post that doesn't make much sense at all.   Scoring 3 goals is doing just that ... definitely better if one of them isn't an empty netter, and pretty cool the way he did it ... but i mean we've had a lot of guys do that since then.   And some players that were at the top of the league during that time too - like McDavid/Mckinnon are now, a decade after 1994 and a decade ago..Naslund 3 first team all-star for LW, finalist for Hart, one point from Art Ross,  Pearson...only Forsberg at the peak of his powers kept him from sweeping all the hardware one year ... hat tricks?  Easy enough for him...D.Sedin/H.Sedin lots of hardware between those two as well.   Miller is a very good player on a great contract - which makes him a gold mine.  He's impossible not to love. 

Edited January 29, 2022 by IBatch

[IBatch]

2 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

The ask is probably Braden Schneider, Alexis Lafreniere and a 1st round pick.  That SHOULD be what we get if Miller is actually dealt.

Schneider and Lafreniere are worth it without the first.   Not sure NYR is in the win now mode either...but they could be if they traded for Miller.   A lot of close teams could.   

[spook007]

10 hours ago, DontMessMe said:

I mean don't other teams always say the other team's ask is astronomical. 

 

I bet NYR is hoping they get Miller for a 1st and a low end prospect lmfao. 

There is hoping and there is reality...

Nucks don't have tp trade Miller... All the balls are in their court...

[IBatch]

13 minutes ago, spook007 said:

There is hoping and there is reality...

Nucks don't have tp trade Miller... All the balls are in their court...

Let's hope we make the playoffs and wins some rounds.   If D is what wins a cup .... well hasn't our PK been night and day better then pre Bruce and Motte back?   And we are also top 1-2 5 x 5 goals against - which is what wins cups.

 

A really good run with this group of guys helps the young guys develop, and guys like Miller want to stay and grow with the  group.   If Miller wants to stay, for a reasonable deal that would be awesome too.    He's a win win for us as fans...and has been since he arrived which is all we can ask for from a player.    Lots of guys have played four or so years with us and left a lasting impact.   He's already in the top 50 Canucks all-time in my books.   

Edited January 29, 2022 by IBatch

[spook007]

Just now, IBatch said:

Let's hope we make the playoffs and wins some rounds.   If D is what wins a cup .... we'll hasn't our PK been night and day better then pre Bruce and Motte back?   And we are also top 1-2 5 x 5 goals against - which is what wins cups.

 

A really good run with this group of guys helps the young guys develop, and guys like Miller want to stay and grow with the  group.   If Miller wants to stay, for a reasonable deal that would be awesome too.    He's a win win for us as fans...and had been since he arrived which is all we can ask for from a player.    Lots of guys have played four or so years with us and left a lasting impact.   He's already in the top 50 Canucks all-time in my books.   

Absolute steal by Benning....

 

Benning made a lot of trades that, at best, didn't work out, but he struck Gold with Miller... 

He has all the attributes a young core will be needing... Voice, Passion, Heart, Strength, Energy, Ability ....and did I say heart.... Plays on any line and makes it better.

If Bo hadn't been our Captain for so long already, Miller would easily have been the captain by now.

 

He may stay or he may go... whether it be the one or the other ,his place is firmly cemented in Canucks history... 

 

Like what you are saying about our D... everyone is harping on about our D, but it is almost unrecognisable since Bruce came in and took over the reigns... The stats backs up the eye tests, and I'm a firm believer in, if you have a chance, you go for it... Gives the young some core experience, but just as importantly belief, that success is possible with our club.

 

New horizons under JRs leadership. Alwyn may be the GM, but zero doubt who has the power at the club. They may already have made up their minds, on what needs to change and within what time frame, thus the changes will follow accordingly, whether we like it or not... trust the process, whatever it may be. We'll see what Millers legacy will be.

One of the leader to take us on another cup run, or the player who was traded for the pieces for the next cup run.

[IBatch]

1 hour ago, spook007 said:

Absolute steal by Benning....

 

Benning made a lot of trades that, at best, didn't work out, but he struck Gold with Miller... 

He has all the attributes a young core will be needing... Voice, Passion, Heart, Strength, Energy, Ability ....and did I say heart.... Plays on any line and makes it better.

If Bo hadn't been our Captain for so long already, Miller would easily have been the captain by now.

 

He may stay or he may go... whether it be the one or the other ,his place is firmly cemented in Canucks history... 

 

Like what you are saying about our D... everyone is harping on about our D, but it is almost unrecognisable since Bruce came in and took over the reigns... The stats backs up the eye tests, and I'm a firm believer in, if you have a chance, you go for it... Gives the young some core experience, but just as importantly belief, that success is possible with our club.

 

New horizons under JRs leadership. Alwyn may be the GM, but zero doubt who has the power at the club. They may already have made up their minds, on what needs to change and within what time frame, thus the changes will follow accordingly, whether we like it or not... trust the process, whatever it may be. We'll see what Millers legacy will be.

One of the leader to take us on another cup run, or the player who was traded for the pieces for the next cup run.

Well said.  At the time of the Miller trade i'm pretty sure i said we just traded for another Horvat, but in his prime.   It's worked out really well for us.   He was buried in TB, but with 14 minutes of ice time, as a third line C he was still putting up a lot of points (and yes he was on their PP too)...50ish points with 14 minutes of ice time is very good production though - and he's been great for us since day one.    

 

Curiously (or on purpose?) we have a lot of great US players on the team.   Hopefully that works to our advantage in keeping it together .... QHs, Demko and Miller are all core guys for us.     As a team right now, they all want playoffs - that's the goal.   They've played so well for us since Bruce has come...this is what JB envisioned for us this season i'm sure.  That is a solid playoff team.   IF it started out right, Gadjovich would also be on this team which is unfortunate.   The past is the past.    All that they can do is make a solid push.    Even with Green there wasn't many games we weren't in it, because Miller was pushing when BB and EP were not.    Same with QHs and Demko.   I don't mind that Horvat is our captain, but i agree Miller is definitely Captain material.    Jovo should of got the C and not Naslund, i'm not one who likes giving the C to the teams best player, but in Millers case, if he re-signs, i wouldn't at all mind if it's made official and he gets it.   Nothing wrong with that. other teams have done this.  Gillies was NYI Captain for a short time before Potvin got it.    Luongo had it one year. 

 

OEL was very surprised and happy to see the amount of leadership in our room at the start of the year based on his comments.   He's another guy that's been there.    Myers ... these vets are pulling the cart.   

 

The goal is a cup.  For the team, players and the fans, management and ownership too.   Cleaning up the front office absolutely helps.   I have more faith we are headed in the right direction now, also grateful for Green working on a possession game (that seems to be what he was mandating this year - been a long time since we were top five in that regard), and Bruce for unleashing the D and working on tilting the ice even more to the o-zone.    This is hockey and you just never know.   Playing the best teams in the East lol... well we didn't look so bad against them did we?   Cooper said they stole the game against us and i'd agree they did.    Demko has a few times for us too - but all season long - even with Green we've played well 5 x 5.   That's what wins cups.  

Edited January 29, 2022 by IBatch

[tas]

5 hours ago, komodo0921 said:

An interesting conversation with JB after last season revealed that a conversation took place between he and JTM of which JB said they had agreed that now was not the time for him to move. Now is not the time. Not a ringing endorsement for wanting to stay.

do you have a link for this? I'm surprised I missed something like that. 

[CanucksJay]

5 hours ago, komodo0921 said:

1. We are 7 points out of the third place spot in the Pacific and 3 points behind the last realistic spot in the West. Winnipeg, Edmonton, and Calgary, all have games at hand on us. Tomorrow's game against Calgary is massive and could, very well be the most important game of our season. The difference between one point and five points is equally massive. 

2. My personal preference is to re-sign Miller to a long-term deal but, as long as he doesn't express a desire to stay, it's not unfair to speculate his wish to move on. An interesting conversation with JB after last season revealed that a conversation took place between he and JTM of which JB said they had agreed that now was not the time for him to move. Now is not the time. Not a ringing endorsement for wanting to stay. He, again, had the oportunity to express a desire to stay, during his post-game interview when asked about the rumors around him. He had the opportunity to say he wanted to be a Canuck but, instead, sidestepped the question. Both sides say The NHL is a business. As any business man knows; Anything other then a yes is a no. JR doesn't seem to be one to beat around the bush. My feeling is that he already knows what JTM wants and is working to facilitate him. All indications are that he is seeking a trade to move Miller.

Another thing I must mention is JR stating he wants to get back to the youth movement, saying that The Canucks are not in the right phase of the rebuild to be trading away draft picks and prospects and that returning to the youth movement is a necessary reality. Getting a hefty return for a peaking JT Miller, in the form of prospects and picks sounds like a solid plan, given above thoughts.

I understand your desire for the best outcome but, given the current situation, it's not unreasonable to expect a different, perhaps, more plausible one.

What is the drop off in trade assets if we trade Miller next TDL as opposed to this TDL? 

If a guy like Miller is available as a deadline rental, i would immediately say he's worth a grade A prospect and a first rounder. 

What more could we get if we traded him this year as opposed to next year? 

 

What that allows us to do is see where we are at the deadline  this year and decide whether to take a run at the playoffs. If we go multiple rounds and perhaps even reach the finals, wouldn't we want to try running it back next year with Miller? Or maybe he performs so well that we trade him in the offseason and still get a giant return. 

If for whatever reason team doesn't take the next step and looks like it either stayed stagnant or went backwards next season , then we decided at next year's deadline whether to move him or risk a Tanev/Marky like situation and have them walk summer 2023?

[CanucksJay]

10 hours ago, Gollumpus said:

Meh, if the team trades Miller, then they should trade Horvat. If they trade Horvat, then they should trade Boeser.

 

The Canucks (probably) get as many as three 1st round picks, perhaps additional higher picks, good prospects, some higher caliber young players... and a lot of cap space, something which is constantly being screamed about around here.

 

                                           regards,  G.

I think trading all those guys makes us go backwards. 

Because Myers and OEL are even older than Horvat Boeser and co. 

So then we'd also have to rebuild our defence. 

I think our window is truly the next 2-3 years and then we have to rebuild whether we like it or not. 

If it was me, I'd wait until TDL and if we are playing .650 hockey under BB and look really good, I'd double down and add for the playoffs. 

[wai_lai416]

2 hours ago, IBatch said:

Schneider and Lafreniere are worth it without the first.   Not sure NYR is in the win now mode either...but they could be if they traded for Miller.   A lot of close teams could.   

i'll gladly take those 2 and give them miller 50% retained.lafreniere haven't been lighting it up in the big apple but u can see the skill there.. he can shoot and can setup people. that'll allow us to re up boeser hopefully to a longer term less than his QO lafreniere isn't due for a big raise unless he lights it up next season and if he does that's a good thing. but can always just bridge him and free up cap to work on plugging the defensive holes and secondary scoring. with all the cap recapture buyout etc set to expire after next season.

[IBatch]

52 minutes ago, tas said:

do you have a link for this? I'm surprised I missed something like that. 

Wouldn't worry about one conversation Tas ... people change their minds and don't usually say what's really in their hearts as far as media goes.   I truly wish they'd get rid of the stupid panels post game.   Total joke (and yes this isn't related to it - but crap crap crap media matters and our local media is mostly crap crap crap).   Not that other teams don't have to deal with the same ... but not all of them.   

Edited January 29, 2022 by IBatch