John_Guest Posted February 1, 2022 Share Posted February 1, 2022 I don't post a lot of threads. The reason being, I don't know as much about hockey as the rest of you wizards. I don't want to embarrass myself. So think of this as more of a bunch of questions and hopefully you can help me out. As I understand it we have cap problems and that leads us to want to look at guys like Miller, Boeser, or even Motte for a trade. But I look at Cap Friendly and I don't see the cap problem. There's nothing for cap there now but isn't this the year we lose the Luongo recapture penalty? CF says that's 3million. I don't understand why LTIR doesn't factor into this. Sutter's out with a contract coming next year, so he's gone at the end of this season, right? That's a mill. It's pretty had to imagine Ferland coming back, so how does that work? Where does that 3.5 in cap go? Has it already been discounted? I don't know what the situation is with Hamonic but even it he does come back, at this point why not just give him away to lose another 3 mill. How much of that 10.5 million in cap space could we actually lose if that's what it really is? Speaking of giving away players, I like OEL but if we're talking crappier contracts than we'd be giving Boeser, Miller or Motte, there's one. At this time he seems more like an aging competent defensive, defense man. That nice but couldn't we find one of those a lot cheaper. If we can't trade OEL could we give him away and keep his 7.2 in cap space, maybe replace him for 3 or 4? Then there's Myers. I'm starting to like Myers but he's 6 mill in cap space. Would I trade Myers for Miller? I would. Especially if something cheaper could be found to replace him and factor in what we could get for him. So why not use what we could make from a Myers trade to give Miller a raise? And if I'm reading Cap Friendly correctly don't we get another 2.4 million in dead cap for Virtanen and Holtby at the end of next year? I must be missing something. They tell me Rutherford is a pretty knowledgeable hockey man and he says there's a cap problem, so what am I missing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Alflives Posted February 1, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted February 1, 2022 What sound does a sheep make? 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Heffy Posted February 1, 2022 Share Posted February 1, 2022 (edited) The buyouts from the summer and the Halak bonus eat up the Luongo savings. Ferland is on LTIR so he doesn't count. Edited February 1, 2022 by King Heffy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken. Posted February 1, 2022 Share Posted February 1, 2022 Good players are due to get fat raises coming up on expiring contracts and we need to plan ahead for that as well as filling the holes to actually improve the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nucker 67 Posted February 1, 2022 Share Posted February 1, 2022 IMO, build around: Horvat Pettersson Hoglander Podkolzin Hughes Demko They could get a lot back (to help this young group make a run in a year or two), by trading Miller, Garland and Boeser 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Mind Posted February 1, 2022 Share Posted February 1, 2022 You can't just give away OEL or Myers. You'd have to pay a team to take on their salary, and it would leave a hole on defense as we don't have an internal replacement ready for those minutes. Our forwards have much more trade value, so if you can get a quality return there, then it's worth doing to better our future while also creating cap room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted February 1, 2022 Share Posted February 1, 2022 (edited) Funny you made this post because I just did some of this work in the Proposals forum... Here's my take: EDIT: I'd like to see what this team is actually capable of with a fresh start to next season. Presumably covid will be in the rearview mirror, which means Hamonic will be back playing again... that substantially improves the RHD side of the equation. Clearly we can afford the team we have now if we believe they're the .650 or .700 hockey club they've shown in the past 2 months. Edited February 1, 2022 by HKSR 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Guest Posted February 1, 2022 Author Share Posted February 1, 2022 20 minutes ago, King Heffy said: The buyouts from the summer and the Halak bonus eat up the Luongo savings. Ferland is on LTIR so he doesn't count. Isn't Halak also gone at the end of this year? Do these bonuses somehow affect the cap next year? And yeah the Ferland thing is something I don't understand. I don't think anybody is expecting Ferland to come back between now and 2023 when his contract ends. So why does he count against the cap? Is there not even some sort of cut? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Guest Posted February 1, 2022 Author Share Posted February 1, 2022 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Master Mind said: You can't just give away OEL or Myers. You'd have to pay a team to take on their salary, and it would leave a hole on defense as we don't have an internal replacement ready for those minutes. Our forwards have much more trade value, so if you can get a quality return there, then it's worth doing to better our future while also creating cap room. Yeah, I was thinking maybe somebody might need defensive help in the playoffs and have the money to take a risk. So future considerations for OEL and Trade for not much with Myers. Maybe we could make an Arizona style trade with somebody else for OEL, only not give away as much as they did. Edited February 1, 2022 by John_Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Guest Posted February 1, 2022 Author Share Posted February 1, 2022 Here a thing I'm thinking too: When people are talking these giveaway trades to get rid of cap on Boeser, Miller, or Motte they're talking about making moves to help next year and into the future. I'm looking at some of the answers above and some seem to be under the misconception I'm wondering about how things are affected this season. Not the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Guest Posted February 1, 2022 Author Share Posted February 1, 2022 (edited) As an example, if the bosses could somehow make a trade that relieved the cap hit on OEL or Myers the hope would be it would create cap space to sign the 3 forwards and find cheaper OEL and Myers replacements in the off or maybe next season. But that's just an example to show you what I mean about into the future. I'm not locked into the OEL, Myers thing. Just something I think about. Edited February 1, 2022 by John_Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Mind Posted February 1, 2022 Share Posted February 1, 2022 9 minutes ago, John_Guest said: Yeah, I was thinking maybe somebody might need defensive help in the playoffs and have the money to take a risk. So future considerations for OEL and Trade for not much with Myers. Maybe we could make an Arizona style trade with somebody else for OEL, only not give away as much as they did. The teams that are contenders and looking to add generally don't have much cap space. Or if they do, a cap crunch is coming in the next year or two, so they wouldn't be able to afford a big salary player long term. Not unless that player was going to be part of their core, like Miller would for any team that were to acquire him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Xanlet Posted February 1, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted February 1, 2022 (edited) The cap is fundamentally unfair because of different tax rates. Canada has quite high income tax, B.C. for example has 20.5% on all income over 227k per year, plus whatever other federal taxes apply. In places like Florida, there is 0% state tax. This results in players receiving much higher take-home pay for lower local tax teams than for higher tax teams. For a player like Pettersson, he likely would have the exact same take-home pay he gets playing for Van at a $7.35m by accepting a $6m cap in Florida and paying way less tax on it. To approach it another way, a larger portion of Van's salary cap goes directly to taxes than a team like Florida (or a lot of other states), meaning Van has less real money to pay players. Remember, players don't care what the number of their official salary is, they care how much money they have after taxes, and agents and teams know this and actively use it to entice players to those teams. A rough, back of the envelope calculation means we are in the neighborhood of an automatic $10m cap disadvantage because of this structuring. I contend that it is basically impossible to overcome such a harsh handicap when the salary cap is flat across all teams. Edited February 1, 2022 by Xanlet 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Guest Posted February 1, 2022 Author Share Posted February 1, 2022 7 minutes ago, Master Mind said: The teams that are contenders and looking to add generally don't have much cap space. Generally, perhaps, but this year? https://www.capfriendly.com/ Nashville, Anaheim and Columbus look to be in the hunt with lots of cap space. The Rangers seem to be doing all right too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appleboy Posted February 1, 2022 Share Posted February 1, 2022 We don't have a cap issue if you are happy with status quo. For this year. Then their will be a couple of mil of bonuses pushed to next year plus the buyout roll over of 2.4 mil. next year you will need to resign Boeser and hopefully hey can get a deal done that is around what he makes right now. So basically next year will be roughly the same team. No wiggle room to improve. The year after you will need to resign Miler and Horvat or watch them walk away for nothing. So, yes we have a cap issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RU SERIOUS Posted February 1, 2022 Share Posted February 1, 2022 57 minutes ago, Alflives said: What sound does a sheep make? Be careful what you say ! Things aren't always what they appear ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goalie13 Posted February 1, 2022 Share Posted February 1, 2022 53 minutes ago, King Heffy said: Ferland is on LTIR so he doesn't count. Except he does count. My understanding is that players on LTIR still count against the cap, but that the team is allowed to exceed the cap in order to bring in a replacement player. So the only time LTIR comes into play is when a team is up against the cap. Or something like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Heffy Posted February 1, 2022 Share Posted February 1, 2022 Just now, goalie13 said: Except he does count. My understanding is that players on LTIR still count against the cap, but that the team is allowed to exceed the cap in order to bring in a replacement player. So the only time LTIR comes into play is when a team is up against the cap. Or something like that. That's more accurate, but given the OP's confusion I was trying to dumb it down as much as possible. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Guest Posted February 1, 2022 Author Share Posted February 1, 2022 7 minutes ago, appleboy said: For this year. Then their will be a couple of mil of bonuses pushed to next year But not if you trade Halak, right? Quote plus the buyout roll over of 2.4 mil. next year you will need to resign Boeser and hopefully hey can get a deal done that is around what he makes right now. So basically next year will be roughly the same team. No wiggle room to improve. But after next year, those buyouts are gone too, right? Quote The year after you will need to resign Miler and Horvat or watch them walk away for nothing. Are you absolutely sure that in that time period the solution couldn't take place elsewhere? I mentioned OEL and Myers but is their nowhere you can lose cap elsewhere that would be better than a dump Miller and Horvat solution? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appleboy Posted February 1, 2022 Share Posted February 1, 2022 (edited) 3 minutes ago, John_Guest said: But not if you trade Halak, right? But after next year, those buyouts are gone too, right? Are you absolutely sure that in that time period the solution couldn't take place elsewhere? I mentioned OEL and Myers but is their nowhere you can lose cap elsewhere that would be better than a dump Miller and Horvat solution? Or just clear enough cap space to absorb his bonus. That bonus is 1.5 mil. Yes the buyout hits are all gone for the next year. 2.4 mil for next then gone. Edited February 1, 2022 by appleboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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