khay Posted February 1, 2022 Share Posted February 1, 2022 15 minutes ago, BCNate said: Miller will not be signing with a contender if he wants a big contract. No Contender will have the space to get that done while making their team better. Canucks have been great under BB, as has Miller. I'd let the next 20 games play out before determining what we are. First 20 under BB we were a top 10 team. No Vancouver is not tax favorable, but certainly one of the nicest cities to play in. When money doesn't really matter any more, you can pay more to live somewhere nice. Miller has not alluded to anything contract wise, whether he wants to be here or not. The fact he isn't discussing his next contract, before it can even really be negotiated is not a big deal. When was the last time a team dealt it's best player and came out of it better? Tampa Bay in 2014 (or 2015?). Trade Marty St. Louis I think he was the leading scorer. Trading best player, you might not be better right away but it can help you be better both short and long term. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkyard Dog Posted February 1, 2022 Share Posted February 1, 2022 Just now, HKSR said: Maybe, but it was also his last big contract of his career... so there's that. It's a different when you look at the fact he was 33(August birthday) going into that season along with all the other things I mentioned. Miller's in much more of a position to command for more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted February 1, 2022 Author Share Posted February 1, 2022 Just now, Junkyard Dog said: It's a different when you look at the fact he was 33(August birthday) going into that season along with all the other things I mentioned. Miller's in much more of a position to command for more. Yes, but numbers don't lie. He put up back-to-back 91 point seasons. You simply can't just ignore that lol. 91 points in this day and age in the NHL is a very productive season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkyard Dog Posted February 1, 2022 Share Posted February 1, 2022 (edited) 4 minutes ago, HKSR said: Yes, but numbers don't lie. He put up back-to-back 91 point seasons. You simply can't just ignore that lol. 91 points in this day and age in the NHL is a very productive season. You're overlooking the fact that he was on a cemented playoff team at the time, is older, spent his career there and was named captain. Points or not, he had a ton more reasons to stay there and take a paycut than Miller does here. Edited February 1, 2022 by Junkyard Dog 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khay Posted February 1, 2022 Share Posted February 1, 2022 13 minutes ago, Junkyard Dog said: Save for Florida, Aho, Crosby, Marchand and OV I would say Miller's current level of play is better than all of those other players. A lot of those guys you mentioned are well past their primes. Miller brings a lot more qualities and his level of importance is greater than most people in the league. Even points alone he produces at the same level, without much help from teammates on a team outside the playoffs. Can't say the same for many players there. Hmm... So that leaves Bergeron, Malkin, Tavares, Marner, Point, and Backstrom. Marner and Point are very much in their prime and sure they are smaller than Miller but I wouldn't say Miller is better than them. Especially Point, he is a dynamic player. Marner is an elite two way player as well. I still think Bergeron, Malkin, and Tavares are better players than Miller even though they are over well 30. Miller may be better than Backstrom? But anyhow, if Miller is better than most of these guys, he is a 9-10 million dollar player. Bergeron is underpaid due to signing a contract earlier/loyalty of being a franchise player. Miller is a great player but would you build around Miller at 9.5 mil? It makes me cringe each time I think about the idea of Miller as our best player going against the very best of the NHL. I'd be happy to be proven wrong and love to see Miller lift the cup with the Canucks this season after we make a miraculous come back to clinch for the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted February 1, 2022 Author Share Posted February 1, 2022 Just now, Junkyard Dog said: You're overlooking the fact that he was on a cemented playoff team at the time, spent his career there and was named captain. Points or not, he had a ton more reasons to stay there and take a paycut than Miller does here. So let's say Wheeler deserved $9M due to his production on the ice (again, back to the 91 point seasons), and he took a paycut to $8.25M. Why would Miller command $9M based on his 71pt and 82pt campaigns? He doesn't do anything more than what Wheeler was capable of a couple years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nucker 67 Posted February 1, 2022 Share Posted February 1, 2022 9 minutes ago, Baratheon said: Man so many people willing to go 8x6. Yikes. The guy is gonna be almost the exact same age as Loui Player Name when he signed with us. We are so confident that Miller will maintain his current level of play for the next seven years? *Laughs uncomfortably* I guess guys.... I agree, I really like Miller and he sure produces, but there are flaws with his game. Boudreau had to recently let him have it for his attitude and laziness getting off the ice in CGY. I remember last year how many times he just gave up on plays, wouldn't back check. I guess he was in pout mode? I dunno, he's always seemed frustrated since being here. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kloubek Posted February 1, 2022 Share Posted February 1, 2022 I think his value is difficult to measure to some degree, as we have to consider all factors. For starters, he never really took off as a player until he came to Vancouver. So I guess there is a risk of regression on another team. He's also not getting any younger, and for any contract with term that must be considered. On the other hand, he drives play - he isn't just a passenger. He's passionate, and doesn't take many nights off. He also happens to currently be our best scorer. He doesn't shy away from physical contact. I also agree with aGent that one can't just take an average, as different players are in a different spot in their careers and their respective teams. Then there's the discount that he may or may not be willing to take, depending on where he plays. I'd say his next contract gets him 7-8m. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khay Posted February 1, 2022 Share Posted February 1, 2022 (edited) 31 minutes ago, BCNate said: Miller will not be signing with a contender if he wants a big contract. No Contender will have the space to get that done while making their team better. Canucks have been great under BB, as has Miller. I'd let the next 20 games play out before determining what we are. First 20 under BB we were a top 10 team. No Vancouver is not tax favorable, but certainly one of the nicest cities to play in. When money doesn't really matter any more, you can pay more to live somewhere nice. Miller has not alluded to anything contract wise, whether he wants to be here or not. The fact he isn't discussing his next contract, before it can even really be negotiated is not a big deal. When was the last time a team dealt it's best player and came out of it better? Good points but if Miller goes to a contender at this TDL and win a cup (or two), he might not care about playing for a contender and sign with highest bidder? Maybe he will give a contender discount, to say a team like Florida that he wouldn't give us? Florida would also be able to offer tax breaks. My feeling is that when he hits the UFA market, contenders will not offer him more than 8. Middle tier team may offer something close to 9. But if we keep him past the next TDL, we have no choice but to offer him what he wants and that could very well be 9.5 x 8 years. Edited February 1, 2022 by khay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted February 1, 2022 Author Share Posted February 1, 2022 2 minutes ago, kloubek said: I think his value is difficult to measure to some degree, as we have to consider all factors. For starters, he never really took off as a player until he came to Vancouver. So I guess there is a risk of regression on another team. He's also not getting any younger, and for any contract with term that must be considered. On the other hand, he drives play - he isn't just a passenger. He's passionate, and doesn't take many nights off. He also happens to currently be our best scorer. He doesn't shy away from physical contact. I also agree with aGent that one can't just take an average, as different players are in a different spot in their careers and their respective teams. Then there's the discount that he may or may not be willing to take, depending on where he plays. I'd say his next contract gets him 7-8m. And now it sounds like his next contract may be outside of Canada.... https://www.nhltraderumors.me/2022/02/nhl-rumors-canucks-forward-prefers-to.html If this is true, then we need to move him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewbieCanuckFan Posted February 1, 2022 Share Posted February 1, 2022 Other factor to consider is that he’s currently on a bargain contract. Doubt he’ll want to leave any money on the table. This might be his last chance at a long term big money contract. And it’s hardly like he hasnt earned it. I believe Boeser is owed a 7.5 million qualifying offer this offseason. Miller knows that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khay Posted February 1, 2022 Share Posted February 1, 2022 1 minute ago, HKSR said: And now it sounds like his next contract may be outside of Canada.... https://www.nhltraderumors.me/2022/02/nhl-rumors-canucks-forward-prefers-to.html If this is true, then we need to move him. lol Ship his a$$ outta here! no, let's milk him as much as possible. He gets us close to a playoff spot until TDL and then we ship his a$$ outta here for king's ransom! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PetterssonOrPeterson Posted February 1, 2022 Share Posted February 1, 2022 Yes it will be high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted February 1, 2022 Share Posted February 1, 2022 40 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said: All this talk of Miller making $9 million until he's in his mid-late 30s is giving me LE flashbacks. I say let the guy go - trade for a King's ransom. Good luck to him. The future of this team is Petey, Hughes, Horvat, Demko etc. 23 minutes ago, Baratheon said: Man so many people willing to go 8x6. Yikes. The guy is gonna be almost the exact same age as Loui Player Name when he signed with us. We are so confident that Miller will maintain his current level of play for the next seven years? *Laughs uncomfortably* I guess guys.... All to stay stagnant, as a non-contender, bubble playoff team, with all that extra cap tired up in a soon to be declining player, impeding the ability to fix the issues keeping us a bubble playoff team, right through our core's prime... It's baffling how many people don't see the obvious answer here... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkyard Dog Posted February 1, 2022 Share Posted February 1, 2022 Just now, HKSR said: So let's say Wheeler deserved $9M due to his production on the ice (again, back to the 91 point seasons), and he took a paycut to $8.25M. Why would Miller command $9M based on his 71pt and 82pt campaigns? He doesn't do anything more than what Wheeler was capable of a couple years ago. IMO his level of performance has been proven to be greater with how Miller's performing. Miller has been playing the way he has without good linemates to benefit from, save for Hughes, whereas Wheeler had Schiefle, Conor, Ehlers all guys Miller carries his line and the team at times. Miller also is a good faceoff-man and plays more physical than Wheeler. Simply put Wheeler was on cemented playoff team when he was playing the way he was. Miller is doing all this on a team our own management doesn't think is good enough. I look at guys like Seguin/Backstrom who make 9+ and Duchene/Johansen who make 8M and I see Miller more than capable of making 8.5M-9.5M long-term on the open market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted February 1, 2022 Author Share Posted February 1, 2022 Just now, aGENT said: All to stay stagnant, as a non-contender, bubble playoff team, with all that extra cap tired up in a soon to be declining player, impeding the ability to fix the issues keeping us a bubble playoff team, right through our core's prime... It's baffling how many people don't see the obvious answer here... I don't think you see that the Canucks have been a .700 hockey team over the course of 2 months. 5 regulation losses in 2 months of hockey. This is not a fluke anymore. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted February 1, 2022 Author Share Posted February 1, 2022 1 minute ago, Junkyard Dog said: IMO his level of performance has been proven to be greater with how Miller's performing. Miller has been playing the way he has without good linemates to benefit from, save for Hughes, whereas Wheeler had Schiefle, Conor, Ehlers all guys Miller carries his line and the team at times. Miller also is a good faceoff-man and plays more physical than Wheeler. Simply put Wheeler was on cemented playoff team when he was playing the way he was. Miller is doing all this on a team our own management doesn't think is good enough. I look at guys like Seguin/Backstrom who make 9+ and Duchene/Johansen who make 8M and I see Miller more than capable of making 8.5M-9.5M long-term on the open market. This year? Yes. Last year? He had Boeser playing at a 33 goal season clip, and Petey was doing decent before injury. The year before he was on the lotto line that was ripping up the league. So how exactly has Miller not been supported by linemates? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted February 1, 2022 Share Posted February 1, 2022 Just now, HKSR said: I don't think you see that the Canucks have been a .700 hockey team over the course of 2 months. 5 regulation losses in 2 months of hockey. This is not a fluke anymore. They're neither as bad as their early record, or as good as their recent one. As always, the truth lies in the middle. Can you honestly tell me, with a straight face, that you view the Canucks, as presently constructed, in the same breath as teams like Carolina, Florida, Tampa, Colorado, Vegas etc? Because that's where we need to get to over the next few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khay Posted February 1, 2022 Share Posted February 1, 2022 1 minute ago, Junkyard Dog said: IMO his level of performance has been proven to be greater with how Miller's performing. Miller has been playing the way he has without good linemates to benefit from, save for Hughes, whereas Wheeler had Schiefle, Conor, Ehlers all guys Miller carries his line and the team at times. Miller also is a good faceoff-man and plays more physical than Wheeler. Simply put Wheeler was on cemented playoff team when he was playing the way he was. Miller is doing all this on a team our own management doesn't think is good enough. I look at guys like Seguin/Backstrom who make 9+ and Duchene/Johansen who make 8M and I see Miller more than capable of making 8.5M-9.5M long-term on the open market. You are severely undervaluing EP and Boeser. He gets primary handle on the puck during our PP, which also features Horvat. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ballisticsports. Posted February 1, 2022 Share Posted February 1, 2022 45 minutes ago, Bure_Pavel said: For 5 years you are likely looking at minimum 9 million, he will get an 8 year deal on the open market. Agreed, if he won you a cup you may reward him at that age for 5 years and hope to repeat But out of the playoffs, the last thing you need are old guys on defence and forward on retirement contracts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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