(discussion) If it meant we can keep Miller, what would you pay to move Hamonic and Pearson?

[JM_]

3 minutes ago, aGENT said:

One, it should be. 

 

Two, if we get a better, higher value package for forwards presumably, we can always flip those forwards for D. And/or clear the cap to eventually buy UFA's etc. 

 

What you don't do, is double down and extend 30 year olds to retirement deals that will wreck your cap allocation right through your core's window.

well, sometimes you do though. Not a team of them, but a select few guys do earn that. 

[Tyndall2]

Is there a team out there that would be interested in EP?  

[JM_]

5 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Absolutely. 

 

Build for the window.

I guess I see potential for a window now (or well next year thanks to Green's start) that is built around strength up the middle, out from Demko with a strong C group. Ditch some of our less effective contracts instead.

 

We might be able to still draft our RHD this draft and have that guy still fit the 2-7 year window too.

[stawns]

6 minutes ago, JM_ said:

lets say Pearson, Hamonic and Dickie were all expiring this year. Would you still be looking to move Miller?

I would, absolutely.  They need the return and the cap flexibility.  I also think there's no chance Miller is going to re-sign in Vancouver and the sooner they move hiom, the faster they can get the re-tool done and start building back up.

 

To me, Miller was part of the groups of that JB put together with Ferland, Rousell, Sutter etc etc.  It's time to focus on the young core

[aGENT]

3 minutes ago, JM_ said:

well, sometimes you do though. Not a team of them, but a select few guys do earn that. 

No, you give term to guys in the prime 25-30 that takes them until 32'ish (like Horvat soon). Or you sign 32'ish guys to short term deals to reduce risk. You don't sign 30 year olds to 6-8 year, near $10m deals. BAD MATH.

[JM_]

Just now, aGENT said:

No, you give term to guys in the prime 25-30 that takes them until 32'ish (like Horvat soon). Or you sign 32'ish guys to short term deals to reduce risk. You don't sign 30 year olds to 6-8 year, near $10m deals.

whoa, who's talking 10 mil? <8x7? thats worth considering. 

 

Just now, aGENT said:

BAD MATH.

 never was my strongest area in school 

[JM_]

3 minutes ago, stawns said:

I would, absolutely.  They need the return and the cap flexibility.  I also think there's no chance Miller is going to re-sign in Vancouver and the sooner they move hiom, the faster they can get the re-tool done and start building back up.

 

To me, Miller was part of the groups of that JB put together with Ferland, Rousell, Sutter etc etc.  It's time to focus on the young core

but you'd move Boeser too... that leaves a hell of a hole in the top 6. 

[Wolfgang Durst]

7 minutes ago, JM_ said:

but you'd move Boeser too... that leaves a hell of a hole in the top 6. 

boeser should be the first player on his way out because of the reasons Mc Intyre stated below:

 

MacIntrye on Canucks forward Brock Boeser.

 

“The name we don’t hear about, and I wonder why we don’t hear his name, is Brock Boeser. Just like with Miller or Garland, it’s not that the team doesn’t like those players or doesn’t want them, but in terms of creating some cap flexibility, Boeser’s ticket is technically bigger than JT Miller’s or Conor Garland‘s, and they have this elephant in the room, which is the $7.5-million qualifying offer due to him after this season.

“That’s a big number and I’m pretty sure that’s not a number the Canucks, given their cap situation and given the priorities they have with players, I don’t think that’s a number they look favourably upon.”

 

boeser , hamonic, dickinson .. get of rid them, don't care how but as fast as possible.

[J.I.A.H.N]

Good Morning @JM_

 

I am really having problems with what we should really do with Miller, but in the end, his personality just rubs me the wrong way. He is fantastic when everything is going his way, but pouts and makes mistakes when they do not. Last night against Nashville, again he glides to the bench as last man out of the offensive zone on a back check. Just seeing it once, says it all. I mean, what does he think a star gets, but hard minutes? He gets checkers on him, and it it does not go his way, he sags. IMO, that is not what you want out of a star veteran player. Yes, the stats look good, but does he send the right message to our young players?

 

It is for all the above, and the fact that our Cap virus Miller distribution, is out of wack, and I keep on asking myself what is more important, Miller virus a #2 young RHD, and I keep coming up with we need the RHD much more. IMO, we are just incomplete and something has to give. Again, IMO, Miller is what gives. 

 

I have been watching NY Ranger games and what I see out of Schneider is a guy that steps in and gets 20 minutes a night off the get go, so, I want him, before is value gets so ridiculous he is out of our reach. I think you have to wonder why NY Rangers are playing him so much, if he is not the real deal? Well, as he is a rookie, it is pretty incredible he is playing that much. 2o minutes a night says he is not being sheltered.

 even 

 

It is for all that, IMO, we go hard and use Miller to get Schneider, a young large, fast skating, dependable, RHD defensive Dman. I trade Miller, with some Cap retention to acquire Schneider + (plus). Schnieder on a ELC for 3 years, allows for other needs. If JR was to trade Miller for Schneider and a 1st, which sounds like an over payment, I would trust JR on this move.

 

The next thing I would do is send Hamonic packing for non performance or breach of contract, this Covid thing could go on for years, and we are throwing 3 Million away, for him to stay home with his kids. Sorry, but it is time to start playing hard ball. If not that, then an agreement for mutual voiding of the contract. It is OK to be a nice guy, but this Hamonic issue is becoming ridiculous. 

 

So, Hamonic and Miller is 8 Million this year, which is plenty of Cap to work with. As much as I like Miller's offense, he gets too much in trade to ignore. PS, Pearson is very unsung, IMO

 

I would also say, If JR is going to pull the trigger, he should do it now, and I would not be surprised to see it done over this allstar break. So get ready!

[JM_]

2 minutes ago, J.I.A.H.N said:

Good Morning @JM_

 

I am really having problems with what we should really do with Miller, but in the end, his personality just rubs me the wrong way. He is fantastic when everything is going his way, but pouts and makes mistakes when they do not. Last night against Nashville, again he glides to the bench as last man out of the offensive zone on a back check. Just seeing it once, says it all. I mean, what does he think a star gets, but hard minutes? He gets checkers on him, and it it does not go his way, he sags. IMO, that is not what you want out of a star veteran player. Yes, the stats look good, but does he send the right message to our young players?

 

It is for all the above, and the fact that our Cap virus Miller distribution, is out of wack, and I keep on asking myself what is more important, Miller virus a #2 young RHD, and I keep coming up with we need the RHD much more. IMO, we are just incomplete and something has to give. Again, IMO, Miller is what gives. 

 

I have been watching NY Ranger games and what I see out of Schneider is a guy that steps in and gets 20 minutes a night off the get go, so, I want him, before is value gets so ridiculous he is out of our reach. I think you have to wonder why NY Rangers are playing him so much, if he is not the real deal? Well, as he is a rookie, it is pretty incredible he is playing that much. 2o minutes a night says he is not being sheltered.

 even 

 

It is for all that, IMO, we go hard and use Miller to get Schneider, a young large, fast skating, dependable, RHD defensive Dman. I trade Miller, with some Cap retention to acquire Schneider + (plus). Schnieder on a ELC for 3 years, allows for other needs. If JR was to trade Miller for Schneider and a 1st, which sounds like an over payment, I would trust JR on this move.

 

The next thing I would do is send Hamonic packing for non performance or breach of contract, this Covid thing could go on for years, and we are throwing 3 Million away, for him to stay home with his kids. Sorry, but it is time to start playing hard ball. If not that, then an agreement for mutual voiding of the contract. It is OK to be a nice guy, but this Hamonic issue is becoming ridiculous. 

 

So, Hamonic and Miller is 8 Million this year, which is plenty of Cap to work with. As much as I like Miller's offense, he gets too much in trade to ignore. PS, Pearson is very unsung, IMO

 

I would also say, If JR is going to pull the trigger, he should do it now, and I would not be surprised to see it done over this allstar break. So get ready!

hey Jan. 

 

OK so I counter with this: what if NYR won't deal Schneider? 

 

I get that Miller can rub people the wrong way, I felt the same about Kesler. But some guys have that competitive fire like Kesler and Miller and you need that. 

 

What if we can get a RHD with Boeser instead?

 

 

[stawns]

16 minutes ago, JM_ said:

but you'd move Boeser too... that leaves a hell of a hole in the top 6. 

not like you won't get back pieces for them.  I don't think they'll be trading for picks, they'll be looking for young roster players or almost ready prospects.

[J.I.A.H.N]

5 minutes ago, JM_ said:

hey Jan. 

 

OK so I counter with this: what if NYR won't deal Schneider? 

 

I get that Miller can rub people the wrong way, I felt the same about Kesler. But some guys have that competitive fire like Kesler and Miller and you need that. 

 

What if we can get a RHD with Boeser instead?

 

 

I agree with your question about Schneider....what if they don't want to deal him?.........well then you go after Baron in Colorado. there has to be a deal out there somewhere Jimmy.

 

As for Miller vs Kesler, I don't see them as comparables. Mostly because Kesler had no quit............that can not be said of Miller. I mean, if given a choice, which one would you take? Kesler or Miller.........me, Kesler 7 days a week.

 

Boeser is definitely an option.

 

 

Edited February 2, 2022 by J.I.A.H.N

[JM_]

1 minute ago, J.I.A.H.N said:

I agree with your question about Schneider....what if they don't want to deal him?.........well then you go after Baron in Colorado. there has to be a deal out there somewhere Jimmy.

 

As for Miller vs Kesler, I don't see them as comparables. Mostly because Kesler had no quit............that can not be said of Miller. I mean, if given a choice, which one would you take? Kesler or Miller.........me, Kesler 7 days a week.

 

Boeser is definitely an option.

 

 

true Kesler in his prime was a beast. But was pretty pouty too, and did his own annoying things. But yes you'd take prime Kesler.

 

As the TDL draws nearer, I guess I'm not a true believer in the home run return. Its a lot for a trade partner to give up.

 

Right now yes we do have some issues with size and grit and a big hole on the right side d. But I'm not sure that weakening our C depth is the right answer.

 

Thats why I'm suggesting paying to move our over-paid meh Benning left us with. Once we have that cap space to play with its a new ball game imo. 

 

We'd also be trading Boeser from more of a position of strength if we had an extra 8 mil in cap. 

[Nucker 67]

I think they could really create a bidding war for Miller. If NYR isn't willing to part with Schneider +, then okay, go to Washington or Pittsburgh. The Rangers would love that  

[stawns]

10 minutes ago, JM_ said:

hey Jan. 

 

OK so I counter with this: what if NYR won't deal Schneider? 

 

I get that Miller can rub people the wrong way, I felt the same about Kesler. But some guys have that competitive fire like Kesler and Miller and you need that. 

 

What if we can get a RHD with Boeser instead?

 

 

they also need at least one young C as well and that can be a focal point in a Miller trade and you can use Boes or Garland to try and get a young dman somewhere.  I'd love to see Tomasino in Van........the Preds have been stuck in "almost there" mode for the better part of a decade and despite what Poile says, they have to be getting desperate to win soon with this group.  If they see the Rags, Canes, Panthers, Avs making big moves they won't have much choice but to follow suit.

[JM_]

1 minute ago, stawns said:

they also need at least one young C as well and that can be a focal point in a Miller trade and you can use Boes or Garland to try and get a young dman somewhere.  I'd love to see Tomasino in Van........the Preds have been stuck in "almost there" mode for the better part of a decade and despite what Poile says, they have to be getting desperate to win soon with this group.  If they see the Rags, Canes, Panthers, Avs making big moves they won't have much choice but to follow suit.

thats a good point. 

 

I really like getting as much C strength as we can, and would prefer to trade from the wing, even if the return is a bit less than what we'd get for Miller.

 

Its all contingent of course on a handshake between now and July 1 btw Miller and Rutherford. 

[J.I.A.H.N]

Hey, @JM_, I got to go play hockey, but you have opened up a hornets nest. Great topic! I will get back to this thread later today. Well done!

[stawns]

1 minute ago, JM_ said:

thats a good point. 

 

I really like getting as much C strength as we can, and would prefer to trade from the wing, even if the return is a bit less than what we'd get for Miller.

 

Its all contingent of course on a handshake between now and July 1 btw Miller and Rutherford. 

I just don't see any chance that MIller stays in Van, nor do I see Van wanting to shell out the kind of bucks they'd have to give him to stay.  They need to stay away from the trap of being a top heavy roster.  Keeping Miller means sacrificing depth and he'll never be more valuable, as an asset, than he is right now.  It's an absolute no brainer for me

[JM_]

9 minutes ago, J.I.A.H.N said:

Hey, @JM_, I got to go play hockey, but you have opened up a hornets nest. Great topic! I will get back to this thread later today. Well done!

its what I do.

[aGENT]

42 minutes ago, JM_ said:

whoa, who's talking 10 mil? <8x7? thats worth considering. 

 

 never was my strongest area in school 

I said near $10m.

 

And in the shorter +/-4 year term we'd need, for it to REMOTELY make sense for us to extend him, yes we're likely looking at +/-$9.5m IMO.

 

And that all but guarantees we don't improve our defense. At least not until he's off the books. 

 

Your basically committing to the same, stagnant team we have now (worse actually, as with your plan we're also both paying futures to shed cap elsewhere, AND jettisoning contributing roster players), that's already not good enough, and not fixing the defense for 4+ years. While having less assets it shore it up along the way because you spent then clearing cap. To pay a soon to be declining, mid 30's, eventual 3rd liner, near $10m.

 

Think about this critically. Does THAT sound like a good plan, to you?