aGENT Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 2 minutes ago, JM_ said: I just like our known quantity in Miller, and don't want to give it up for magic beans. If there isn't a top RHD on offer I want to keep him. Chytil, Schneider and a first isn't "magic beans" though. That's an at worst, young, 3rd line W'er/C with speed, size and a solid 2 way game, a young NHL D with basically a 2nd pair floor, and sure, a late 1st is "magic beany" (and by far the least significant portion of the trade). And we should expect at least that (or something comparable). Look what a super sketchy/injured $10m Eichel returned. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fanuck Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 10 minutes ago, JM_ said: I just like our known quantity in Miller, and don't want to give it up for magic beans. If there isn't a top RHD on offer I want to keep him. JM, remind us all what we got for Tanev/Toffy/Marky.....? All three of those guys had better chances of resigning in Vancouver than Miller does imo and we all know how that went. The more I think about it the clearer it becomes to me, Miller's value will never be higher than it is before the upcoming TDL, never. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted February 2, 2022 Author Share Posted February 2, 2022 13 minutes ago, Fanuck said: JM, remind us all what we got for Tanev/Toffy/Marky.....? All three of those guys had better chances of resigning in Vancouver than Miller does imo and we all know how that went. The more I think about it the clearer it becomes to me, Miller's value will never be higher than it is before the upcoming TDL, never. we can't make up for Bennings mistake on Tanev. What we can do is make sure we're selling at the right time. We know what Miller is, thats worth a lot. If we move him, we need to replace a top C, even if we get the RHD, etc. So who's that going to be, because right now thats not Petey. Are we going to pay Kadri 8 mil? Hertl? So yeah I agree Millers value is likely at peak, but that leaves a big hole too with an uncertain plan as to how to fit it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N4ZZY Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 4 hours ago, JM_ said: we have 4 more years of Demko. How far down the road is this new window? At 5M. After that, I’m sure he’s going to want to want a raise, especially with the way he’s been producing and playing this season. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 4 minutes ago, JM_ said: If we move him, we need to replace a top C, even if we get the RHD, etc. So who's that going to be, because right now thats not Petey. Are we going to pay Kadri 8 mil? Hertl? No, we don't. This team is going to live and die on the backs of Hughes and Petey (and Demko) long term, regardless of what we do with Miller. Until then, Horvat can 1C in the interim until Petey actually gets to his prime. Petey can 2C in a more sheltered, offensive "Sedin" role. We find a 3C via UFA, trade etc to play match up, PK and toss in occasional complimentary offense. Lammiko etc for the energy line. Fix the D, keep on trucking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N4ZZY Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 7 minutes ago, JM_ said: we can't make up for Bennings mistake on Tanev. What we can do is make sure we're selling at the right time. We know what Miller is, thats worth a lot. If we move him, we need to replace a top C, even if we get the RHD, etc. So who's that going to be, because right now thats not Petey. Are we going to pay Kadri 8 mil? Hertl? So yeah I agree Millers value is likely at peak, but that leaves a big hole too with an uncertain plan as to how to fit it. Petey’s having a bad season, for sure. I’m hoping that he bounces back next season. I think a few pieces are going to move. Miller for one. I think Boeser is probably on his way out too. And Garland, if the package is right. One of those players are going to get us a young C back. I think Miller and the Rangers will probably get done. No facts or reports. Just my gut feeling. For what comes back to Vancouver, who knows. I’m hoping that Schneider is the main piece coming back. We desperately need a promising, young, RHD, and Schneider to me hits the bill. Benning to me kind of built this team backwards. He built it from the forwards out. And the defense just sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N4ZZY Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 2 minutes ago, aGENT said: No, we don't. This team is going to live and die on the backs of Hughes and Petey (and Demko) long term, regardless of what we do with Miller. Until then, Horvat can 1C in the interim until Petey actually gets to his prime. Petey can 2C in a more sheltered, offensive "Sedin" role. We find a 3C via UFA, trade etc to play match up, PK and toss in occasional complimentary offense. Lammiko etc for the energy line. Fix the D, keep on trucking. Yeah. to me, Miller isn’t part of the core of this team. He would be if he was younger. The core to me is absolutely Hughes, Demko. Petey if he bounces back, and Bo. that’s the four that I keep moving forward and building around. Everyone else is tradeable for assets coming back. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted February 2, 2022 Author Share Posted February 2, 2022 15 minutes ago, aGENT said: No, we don't. This team is going to live and die on the backs of Hughes and Petey (and Demko) long term, regardless of what we do with Miller. Until then, Horvat can 1C in the interim until Petey actually gets to his prime. Petey can 2C in a more sheltered, offensive "Sedin" role. We find a 3C via UFA, trade etc to play match up, PK and toss in occasional complimentary offense. Lammiko etc for the energy line. Fix the D, keep on trucking. oh yes we do. Petey isn't strong enough to be a top 6 C, at least so far. I don't see how we have a chance in the playoffs without another C up there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 8 minutes ago, JM_ said: oh yes we do. Petey isn't strong enough to be a top 6 C, at least so far. I don't see how we have a chance in the playoffs without another C up there. Oh no we don't. Petey this year? No. Regular Petey? Ayyup. Even better than 'regular' Petey? Double Ayyup. There's zero reason something like this couldn't be 'bubble playoff' competitive next year: Chytil, Horvat, Boeser Garland, Pettersson, Hoglander Pearson, Paul, Podkolzin Motte, Lammiko, Highmore OEL, Myers Hughes, Schneider UFA/trade/Rathbone, Poolman/Hamonic/Schenn And again, the ENTIRE focus of this club should be building this team to the 2-7 years from now, core window. We're not a cup contender next year with or without Miller. BUILD. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted February 2, 2022 Author Share Posted February 2, 2022 3 minutes ago, aGENT said: Oh no we don't. Petey this year? No. Regular Petey? Ayyup. Even better than 'regular' Petey? Double Ayyup. There's zero reason something like this couldn't be 'bubble playoff' competitive next year: Chytil, Horvat, Boeser Garland, Pettersson, Hoglander Pearson, Paul, Podkolzin Motte, Lammiko, Highmore OEL, Myers Hughes, Schneider UFA/trade/Rathbone, Poolman/Hamonic/Schenn And again, the ENTIRE focus of this club should be building this team to the 2-7 years from now, core window. We're not a cup contender next year with or without Miller. BUILD. well... I think we're at an impasse good sir. I don't think Petey is going to be a top line C. Winger for sure. Maybe if he can get a couple of years of intense strength training in over the next couple of years. Anyway, good yap, appreciate your take as always. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 (edited) 6 minutes ago, JM_ said: well... I think we're at an impasse good sir. I don't think Petey is going to be a top line C. Winger for sure. Maybe if he can get a couple of years of intense strength training in over the next couple of years. Anyway, good yap, appreciate your take as always. He's only 23 years old JM! The kid is still 2 years away from entering his statistical prime. 4 years from his statistical peak. I think it's ridiculous to think even the good years of Petey are the best he can be. Let alone this down year, coming off a long term wrist injury, with no training camp. Your allowing recency bias to cloud your thinking. Edited February 2, 2022 by aGENT 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook007 Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 1 hour ago, stawns said: they move Miller and Boeser and they'll have plenty of dough to sign a good #2-3 centre in the off season. Lammiko has been a very welcome surprise as a #4 centre, so they're not as desperate as they'd be without him. I'd also expect a young C coming back in a deadline deal, likely as part of a Miller deal This is also what I want. A rhd and a c... maybe the get Laf out of NY+ something else?, or they get one of the coverted rhds + something else... I doubt they'll get both tbh... but hope they try for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook007 Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 2 hours ago, aGENT said: If we moved them at the TDL it would have been closer to 1/4 of that or roughly $3m at the TDL. And we could have retained 50%. don't think they wanted to... and that kind of ended the story. Linden spoke about you couldn't do that, which is either his honest opinion or they had already been asked and said no... 2 hours ago, aGENT said: Well yeah, chances are there's likely a pick in the package. But it's like you're getting a Ferrari and you're worried about the tires being used Would know as I had one, but my point still stands. I responded to a post, which said prospects a d picks wasn't enough, and I agreed to that. Had to be top prospects or roster players... roster players no likely from a team going for it, thus looking at very good prospects just about to break through. And again if a pick cones along, excellent, but we want something from the deal that is as close as possible to future top six C or top 4 rhd +.... If EP doesn't regain form (I think he does) the new players could end up have to be the core players of the future. PS. Nothing wrong with worrying about the tires... always get as much as possible for you money Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook007 Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 1 hour ago, Fanuck said: JM, remind us all what we got for Tanev/Toffy/Marky.....? All three of those guys had better chances of resigning in Vancouver than Miller does imo and we all know how that went. The more I think about it the clearer it becomes to me, Miller's value will never be higher than it is before the upcoming TDL, never. This.... this is probably the most resonable way of putting it, despite our love and loyalty towards Miller... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 3 minutes ago, spook007 said: don't think they wanted to... and that kind of ended the story. Linden spoke about you couldn't do that, which is either his honest opinion or they had already been asked and said no... And that was their right and I'm not sour we'd kept them. Love those guys. But if we're honest, pragmatic and with the gift of hindsight, look at it purely from a management/keep the window open perspective... Thankfully we're not limited at all here with Miller. Plus we have a far, FAR younger core to build around where it's pretty obvious, he doesn't fit. The twins largely were that core. 3 minutes ago, spook007 said: Would know as I had one, but my point still stands. I responded to a post, which said prospects a d picks wasn't enough, and I agreed to that. Had to be top prospects or roster players... roster players no likely from a team going for it, thus looking at very good prospects just about to break through. And again if a pick cones along, excellent, but we want something from the deal that is as close as possible to future top six C or top 4 rhd +.... We're likely getting a lesser roster player (and their cap) back in some form. Hence a 'Chytil' or similar. But yes, the main piece should be a young, blue chip, near ready, RHD and/or C. 3 minutes ago, spook007 said: If EP doesn't regain form (I think he does) the new players could end up have to be the core players of the future. PS. Nothing wrong with worrying about the tires... always get as much as possible for you money Sure. But if the tires fail to work out 6 months from now, you just get another set. Inconvenient? Sure. But you still have the Ferrari. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted February 2, 2022 Author Share Posted February 2, 2022 47 minutes ago, aGENT said: He's only 23 years old JM! The kid is still 2 years away from entering his statistical prime. 4 years from his statistical peak. I think it's ridiculous to think even the good years of Petey are the best he can be. Let alone this down year, coming off a long term wrist injury, with no training camp. Your allowing recency bias to cloud your thinking. I have no doubt he can be a ppg or close to it winger in his prime. But he's not going to be a physical player, thats not recency its just who he is. I don't see how we get through the West staying or getting smaller in the top 6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 1 minute ago, JM_ said: I have no doubt he can be a ppg or close to it winger in his prime. But he's not going to be a physical player, thats not recency its just who he is. I don't see how we get through the West staying or getting smaller in the top 6. Simple. We don't stay that way. The team's not going to just stay static and not continue evolving past a Miller trade. Podkolzin's likely going to develop in to a top 6. We have Klimovich and Mcdonagh hopefully coming along at some point. Maybe Boeser moves for a grittier/faster top 6 guy with a bit less scoring. Maybe a guy we haven't drafted develops in to one of those guys. Etc, etc. And wasn't Forsberg about the same size as Petey when he was drafted? Not that they're the same player but... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted February 2, 2022 Author Share Posted February 2, 2022 8 minutes ago, aGENT said: Simple. We don't stay that way. The team's not going to just stay static and not continue evolving past a Miller trade. Podkolzin's likely going to develop in to a top 6. We have Klimovich and Mcdonagh hopefully coming along at some point. Maybe Boeser moves for a grittier/faster top 6 guy with a bit less scoring. Maybe a guy we haven't drafted develops in to one of those guys. Etc, etc. And wasn't Forsberg about the same size as Petey when he was drafted? Not that they're the same player but... well, thats a lot that has to go right. Dunno, as we move along with these discussions I more and more like the idea of clearing cap and trying to solve our defensive gap with Boeser, vs Miller. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 (edited) 9 minutes ago, JM_ said: well, thats a lot that has to go right. Dunno, as we move along with these discussions I more and more like the idea of clearing cap and trying to solve our defensive gap with Boeser, vs Miller. A lot is going to have to go right no matter what we do. That's like the only way to win a cup... a LOT of things going right. So you give yourself as many avenues as possible for them to do so. In no way do I see saddling ourselves with a soon to be declining, $8-$10m anchor, right when our core is going to contend, and with no way to fix our defense, as a good one. Edited February 2, 2022 by aGENT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eeeeergh Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 7 hours ago, stawns said: I'm not sure why they'd want to move Pearson, he's a glue guy, imo His salary is pretty horrendous for what he does Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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