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No Core Player NEEDS to be traded...

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HKSR

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I am also not confidence to our cores.

Miller need be traded for players who can play good with Pettersson.  Pettersson has no confidence at this moment, we need someone to help him, expect he has much higher performance.

Boser is our shooter, I prefer to keep him.

We might trade Garland if the return is in good RD.

Bo is our captain, should keep him in the roster.

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6 hours ago, HKSR said:

Here's what a 4 year plan COULD look like keeping everybody we have and yet still upgrading our defence on the right hand side.

Shows we don't NEED to trade anybody in the core and still be able to improve our roster.  Hamonic should be back next year with covid hopefully in the rear view mirror.  He walks and then we can make our UFA signing of a stay at home RHD like Mayfield for 2023-24.

 

Re-signings

JT Mller at $8.5M AAV

Boeser at $7.25M AAV

Bo at $7.25M AAV

Petey at $8.5M AAV

Motte at $2M AAV

Hogs at $3M AAV (bridge)

Podz at $3M AAV (bridge)

 

Trades and Movement

Pearson traded by 2023-24

Dickinson traded by 2023-24

Poolman traded by 2023-24

Lockwood, Rathbone, and Klimovich/Karlsson joins the team

 

UFA Signing in 2023-24:  Scott Mayfield or equivalent RHD for $4.5M AAV

 

Cap-4RHD.jpg.1ca43510f51a1cb033c6f87bcf13505f.jpg

Lines by 2023-24:

 

Hoglander-Petey-Boeser

Podz-Miller-Motte

Garland-Bo-Klimovich

ELC/4F-Lamikko-Lockwood

 

Hughes-Mayfield

OEL-Myers

Rathbone-Schenn

 

Demko

 

 EDIT:  If you're interested, I did the same exercise assuming Miller is traded for Chytil and Schneider here for comparison:

 

 

 

I think we differ on players who are core.  I see Demko, Petey, Hughes, Bo as core players.  The rest (not on ELCs; Hogs, Pods) I don’t consider core.  If we can get a good young prospective return for any other player I’m hoping JR and Alvin will do that.  

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5 hours ago, HKSR said:

Ok, here we go, assume Miller is traded for a great package that includes Chytil and Schneider from the NYR. 

 

The plan apparently is to wait 2 years for the core to develop and really GO FOR IT in 3 years (2024-25)

 

Here's the rosy picture...

 

Re-signings

Boeser at $7.25M AAV

Bo at $7.25M AAV

Petey at $9.5M AAV (seems like most of you think he's gonna hit his potential without Miller around)

Motte at $2M AAV

Hogs at $3M AAV (bridge)

Podz at $3M AAV (bridge)

Schneider at $5M AAV (if he turns into that stud defenceman)

 

Trades and Movement

Pearson gone by 2024-25

Dickinson gone by 2024-25

Lockwood, Rathbone, and Klimovich/Karlsson joins the team

 

Cap-MillerTraded.jpg.7aeeeb93f73d046f1d8d3e566b8e797d.jpg

There you go... a bit of room to breathe in 2024-25, and some good space in 2025-26.  However, Hughes' last year of his cheaper contract ends in 2026-27.  Expect he'll make $10M after that, so don't go crazy spending now lol

 

Ladies and gentleman... your 2024-25 VANCOUVER CANUCKS!

 

Hoglander-Petey-Boeser

Garland-Bo-Podkolzin

Motte-Chytil-Klimovich

4F-Lamikko-Lockwood

 

Hughes-Schneider

OEL-Top4RHD

Rathbone-Poolman

 

Demko

 

So?  Waddya think?  Huge upgrades worth it to wait 3 years from now for a window of about 2 or 3 years since Hughes will make top dollar then?

 

Honestly? Even your rudimentary and probably not overly accurate example there is a pretty big improvement. I think you're overpaying a couple guys, Boeser especially and I doubt all of those guys stick around if/when additional, cheaper kids make the roster either giving us even more cap space.

 

And Hughes couple mil raise is due when OEL's $7+ comes off...almost like it was planned that way...

 

Besides, this whole thread premise is silly. Of course we don't have to move any core players. Just Miller :bigblush:

oh-snap-burn.gif

Edited by aGENT
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4 hours ago, Alflives said:

I think we differ on players who are core.  I see Demko, Petey, Hughes, Bo as core players.  The rest (not on ELCs; Hogs, Pods) I don’t consider core.  If we can get a good young prospective return for any other player I’m hoping JR and Alvin will do that.  

I agree in principle with only those 4 players being the theoretical core.  However, as I've previously mentioned, only QH & Demko will likely be considered untouchable.  Although EP40 has shown enourmous potential back in the 2019 season, he has fallen off the rails and regressed significantly.   Gods know why and I'd love nothing more for him to regain his stature but it is possible that JR shows no further patience and cashes out on him now - if he feels that this is all we'll get out of him ever again.    I would not be shocked is he's traded but hoping they give him another year to see if the damage T. green caused him (like sooooo many others) is irreversable and permanent. 

 

As for Bo, the only reason I say he's not untouchable is that JR and Co. may decide that given the massive change in direction of the management, that a leadership change is also required for a "fresh start" with the rest of changes that are likely coming.   However, they may stay the course with him if they feel that his leadership abilities are in sync with where they want this franchise to go, especially given the $ that will be freed up if he's traded and the good return they'll get back for him.   Love the guy as a person, but we all have to admit that he sort of got that "C" by default when the Sedins retired and he was about the only guy they could give it to.   So don't be surprised if he's gone too. 

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3 minutes ago, RU SERIOUS said:

I agree in principle with only those 4 players being the theoretical core.  However, as I've previously mentioned, only QH & Demko will likely be considered untouchable.  Although EP40 has shown enourmous potential back in the 2019 season, he has fallen off the rails and regressed significantly.   Gods know why and I'd love nothing more for him to regain his stature but it is possible that JR shows no further patience and cashes out on him now - if he feels that this is all we'll get out of him ever again.    I would not be shocked is he's traded but hoping they give him another year to see if the damage T. green caused him (like sooooo many others) is irreversable and permanent. 

 

As for Bo, the only reason I say he's not untouchable is that JR and Co. may decide that given the massive change in direction of the management, that a leadership change is also required for a "fresh start" with the rest of changes that are likely coming.   However, they may stay the course with him if they feel that his leadership abilities are in sync with where they want this franchise to go, especially given the $ that will be freed up if he's traded and the good return they'll get back for him.   Love the guy as a person, but we all have to admit that he sort of got that "C" by default when the Sedins retired and he was about the only guy they could give it to.   So don't be surprised if he's gone too. 

As much as we may get hope for a proper rebuild around the young core I don’t know if our owner will allow that to happen.  He seems to be more a quick retool believer.  

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1 minute ago, Alflives said:

As much as we may get hope for a proper rebuild around the young core I don’t know if our owner will allow that to happen.  He seems to be more a quick retool believer.  

Yes, he has a long track record for that but after him biting the bullet on TG & JB and their salaries and allowing JR to expand the front office (overhead)  which is costing big $'s, something tells me that he'll allow JR to "do what must be done" as JR does not seem like a pushover like Uncle Jim B was and appears like a very impatient "don't F' around" type of guy.   So, although I don't see an entire stripdown of the team, I do expect some significant moves and certainly expect at least a couple of our higher end players to be traded. 

 We'll find out soon enough and no matter what, look at it this way.  We've finished in the bottom 10 for nearly 10 years and likely will again this year. So we have little to lose at this point as this crop of players are NOT GETTING THE JOB DONE!     ...........and that is FACT!

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I think its getting to a point where it best to trade both Miller and Boeser and get some valuable pieces back and get some cap space. Canucks need more depth and more quality. I dont think we want to be some meddling team going forward. Time to start retooling.

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19 minutes ago, Alflives said:

As much as we may get hope for a proper rebuild around the young core I don’t know if our owner will allow that to happen.  He seems to be more a quick retool believer.  

I dont think we need a rebuild but more of a retool. We have Demko, Hughes, Horvat and Pettersson. Lets build around them and trade players like Boeser and Miller that will require lots of cap space to sign and we need to get valuable pieces like top 4 RHD prsopects like Schneider. Also need the cap space to re-sign Horvat and target college and european free agents. 

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9 hours ago, deus.ex.makina said:

We need to lock Miller, but we need to trade Boeser for a real difference maker. 
Boeser to Minny for Fiala. (We may add)

next sign Horvat and get ride of Dickinson Pearson and Poolman.

Make a last attempt to Tryamkin. Give him Poolman money.

Doubt Minnesota has any interest in Boeser - too slow and can't drive play anywhere close to how Fiala can.  Guerin doesn't believe in targeting local players either - he was asked about it and says he's focused on building a winning team and that doesn't factor into it at all.  Their fan favourites have been from all over the world.  

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I think management are trying to build around Pettersson, Hughes and Demko because they're hard pieces to find. We're just being very patient with Petey, but is he really the top line center we need to build around?

When you look back at the cup winners, they have a decent core of 5 or 7 players depending on how you split it. Usually it's 2 great top centers, 1 star defenceman, 1 star goalie, then 1 great winger and a great top-4 defenceman plus another forward (sometimes 3rd line center, sometimes winger). If it's 5, it's 2 great centers, 1 star defenceman, 1 star goalie plus either a winger or defenceman.

 

Bottom line with that is you build around two great centers. I suppose the Canucks are then going to build around Pettersson, Horvat, Hughes, Demko and then add onto that Boeser. Is this the core we can go deep in the playoffs with? Hughes is a fantastic defenceman who is rounding out his defensive game, but can he challenge big, strong forwards in a 7 game series? Demko is the only one on that list who really stacks up against the rest of the league. Horvat really should be a Kesler/Bergeron-type center, but even he's much too inconsistent at times.

 

I'm not sure if this young core is the one to challenge for a cup over the next 5-10 years, but it's what we've got, we just have to support it.

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22 hours ago, HKSR said:

You REALLY need to be careful about what you're waiting for...

 

If LA waited for Doughty and Kopitar to hit their primes, or Chicago waited for Kane and Toews to hit their prime (ages 27 to 30), they'd have no Cups at this point.

 

Why?  Because those guys will command $10M each, severely crippling the cap structure to the point you won't be able to surround them with the talent to win.

 

If Petey and Hughes truly become top 10 or 15 talents in this league, and you wait until they hit their prime, they'll cost $10M+ each.  Then what? 

That’s why Miller has to go.

We need the quality players coming through draft to be on ELC. 
Wich is why Benning was so stupid and stressed throwing away 1st picks before we even were a playoff team. 

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11 hours ago, RU SERIOUS said:

I agree in principle with only those 4 players being the theoretical core.  However, as I've previously mentioned, only QH & Demko will likely be considered untouchable.  Although EP40 has shown enourmous potential back in the 2019 season, he has fallen off the rails and regressed significantly.   Gods know why and I'd love nothing more for him to regain his stature but it is possible that JR shows no further patience and cashes out on him now - if he feels that this is all we'll get out of him ever again.    I would not be shocked is he's traded but hoping they give him another year to see if the damage T. green caused him (like sooooo many others) is irreversable and permanent. 

 

As for Bo, the only reason I say he's not untouchable is that JR and Co. may decide that given the massive change in direction of the management, that a leadership change is also required for a "fresh start" with the rest of changes that are likely coming.   However, they may stay the course with him if they feel that his leadership abilities are in sync with where they want this franchise to go, especially given the $ that will be freed up if he's traded and the good return they'll get back for him.   Love the guy as a person, but we all have to admit that he sort of got that "C" by default when the Sedins retired and he was about the only guy they could give it to.   So don't be surprised if he's gone too. 

 

8 hours ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

I think management are trying to build around Pettersson, Hughes and Demko because they're hard pieces to find. We're just being very patient with Petey, but is he really the top line center we need to build around?

When you look back at the cup winners, they have a decent core of 5 or 7 players depending on how you split it. Usually it's 2 great top centers, 1 star defenceman, 1 star goalie, then 1 great winger and a great top-4 defenceman plus another forward (sometimes 3rd line center, sometimes winger). If it's 5, it's 2 great centers, 1 star defenceman, 1 star goalie plus either a winger or defenceman.

 

Bottom line with that is you build around two great centers. I suppose the Canucks are then going to build around Pettersson, Horvat, Hughes, Demko and then add onto that Boeser. Is this the core we can go deep in the playoffs with? Hughes is a fantastic defenceman who is rounding out his defensive game, but can he challenge big, strong forwards in a 7 game series? Demko is the only one on that list who really stacks up against the rest of the league. Horvat really should be a Kesler/Bergeron-type center, but even he's much too inconsistent at times.

 

I'm not sure if this young core is the one to challenge for a cup over the next 5-10 years, but it's what we've got, we just have to support it.

This sums it up quite nicely, this is what we got to work with. Bo and Petey probably stick around if we are not offered a good return. The Coach really needed to have been changed  long ago but I agree, the damage has already been done. 

It sad about Bo because I think he has so much potential but he was groomed to be a Hank 2.0 and I don't think that did him any good. 

I think depending on what the return is, one of Miller, Petey or Bo is traded and probably Boeser. 

As stated before, this group is not getting it done and there needs to be changes. 

However we end being faster, bigger and more consistent, I am good with.

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25 minutes ago, Timråfan said:

That’s why Miller has to go.

We need the quality players coming through draft to be on ELC. 
Wich is why Benning was so stupid and stressed throwing away 1st picks before we even were a playoff team. 

If Benning wasn't so "stupid" we wouldn't have Miller now, to sell for all those assets, that are worth far more than we paid to obtain him.

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9 hours ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

I think management are trying to build around Pettersson, Hughes and Demko because they're hard pieces to find. We're just being very patient with Petey, but is he really the top line center we need to build around?

When you look back at the cup winners, they have a decent core of 5 or 7 players depending on how you split it. Usually it's 2 great top centers, 1 star defenceman, 1 star goalie, then 1 great winger and a great top-4 defenceman plus another forward (sometimes 3rd line center, sometimes winger). If it's 5, it's 2 great centers, 1 star defenceman, 1 star goalie plus either a winger or defenceman.

 

Bottom line with that is you build around two great centers. I suppose the Canucks are then going to build around Pettersson, Horvat, Hughes, Demko and then add onto that Boeser. Is this the core we can go deep in the playoffs with? Hughes is a fantastic defenceman who is rounding out his defensive game, but can he challenge big, strong forwards in a 7 game series? Demko is the only one on that list who really stacks up against the rest of the league. Horvat really should be a Kesler/Bergeron-type center, but even he's much too inconsistent at times.

 

I'm not sure if this young core is the one to challenge for a cup over the next 5-10 years, but it's what we've got, we just have to support it.

To be fair, Boeser was probably our best forward last year and it may be a blessing in disguise he's having an off year (and not alone), in a contract year.

 

Pettersson and Hughes haven't even sniffed their primes yet, so far too early to lament their career trajectories. And I think Hughes has proven this season, there's very little to worry about regarding him. Other than obtaining some more help for him on the right side.

 

As for Pettersson, he missed half of last season with injury, likely a lot of offseason training because of it, and then camp. And people are shocked he's having a down year...? Up until that point he was a record breaking, Calder winning phenom that had the entire league buzzing. And now he's a bust..? Ok.

 

Pettersson, Hughes, Demko and Horvat are the core. Management's job is to now throw everything they can at supporting their contention window, 2-7 years from now. 

 

 

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Lots of speculation, but it could be weeks before anything actually happens. But, for fun...

 

Heard Craig Button flirt with the idea of trading Pettersson, instead of Miller, who they would re-sign long term (5-6 years). 

 

to CBJ - (C/LW) Elias Pettersson

to VAN - 1st (2022), 1st (2022) - they have two, (LD) Jake Bean and (LW/RW) Oliver Bjorkstrand

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23 hours ago, HKSR said:

I really don't get it sometimes...

 

CDCers:  "Oh man, you wanna just keep the status quo?  They're gonna SUCK!"

Also CDCers:  "Oh man, you just wait, when these guys all hit their prime, they're gonna be awesome!  We're gonna be contenders!"

that is called a difference of opinion

 

also, last summer or any time in the last 7 years (I'm giving Ol Jim a 1 year grace period)

 

CDCers Benning sux, fire Willie/Green

also CDCers Benning is a genius and will lead us to the promise land, Hogs n Pods nPetey n Boes are elite talents, Green will grow with the team... 

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Assuming Garland is traded to BOS and Miller is traded to NYR

 

2022/23?

 

Podkolzin - Pettersson - Boeser

Pearson - Horvat - Lysell*

Hoglander - Chytil - Motte

Debrusk - Lammikko - Highmore

Lockwood

Klimovich

 

OEL - Myers

Hughes - Schenn

Lundkvist - Poolman

Burroughs

Juulsen

 

Demko

Martin

 

* not sure he'll be ready for next season though

 

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25 minutes ago, lmm said:

that is called a difference of opinion

 

also, last summer or any time in the last 7 years (I'm giving Ol Jim a 1 year grace period)

 

CDCers Benning sux, fire Willie/Green

also CDCers Benning is a genius and will lead us to the promise land, Hogs n Pods nPetey n Boes are elite talents, Green will grow with the team... 

Also a bit oversimplified to say "wait until they hit their prime, we'll be contenders!" too.

 

There's a LOT that still needs to happen around that core between now and them entering their primes to make this team a contender. It's not just about waiting for those guys to mature and crossing fingers.

 

There's very real structural issues that need to be addressed. Never mind succession issues with Hamonic gone after next year (Schenn too) and Myers the year following. And none are of an age we likely want to be re-upping...not at anything resembling term or sizeable cap (if at all).

 

Are we looking forward to a right side of Poolman, Juulsen and Woo in a couple years....?:unsure:

 

If we aren't trading Miller for some of these replacement pieces, where are they coming from? UFA?

 

If we're paying Miller $9m +/- how are we signing them as UFA's? Where's the cap coming from? I don't think a lot of people wanting to keep him, are realistically looking at those factors. Like, at all.

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