No Core Player NEEDS to be traded...

[Maddogy]

42 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Too early to tell IMO. Those guys are in their primes, ours aren't. And Hughes/Ekblad are completely different players. But I'd say Hughes is at least comparable to Makar, and they seem to be doing ok

 

They did pretty well in our little bubble there IMO. Two of our better players in fact. And they were basically both rookies still.

 

But yes, they need more support in any longer term build. And yes, that's precisely why some of us are hoping for a Miller trade that has a Schneider from the Rangers or Barron from the Avalanche coming back to be a decade long partner with Hughes.

 

Petey will be his own player. And yes, he's having a down year, after an injury, missing half a season, likely a lot of offseason training, and training camp.

 

I'm not really worried, we've seen what the real Petey can do. And if he's the player in think he is, this crap season is likely to drive him to new, higher levels IMO. He's going to use this as fuel/motivation.

 

Plus we have a pretty solid 2 way center in Horvat, to help out there

 

Pettersson is not a child. You cannot treat him as such. You cannot simply brush aside the grave consequences of his failures. Had he and Boeser played at Hughes and Demko levels, we would be touted as the up and coming contenders and J.B. as well Green would still be here. You need to treat him as an adult and let him know that he failed and partly due to his failure many people lost their jobs. There are young doctors, young nurses, young lawyers that screwed up and caused irreparable damages. This is what young professionals have to go through in their careers but you cannot defend them as if they are children. 

Edited February 4, 2022 by Maddogy

[Timråfan]

2 minutes ago, Maddogy said:

Pettersson is not a child. You cannot treat him as such. You cannot simply brush aside the grave consequences of his failures. Had he and Boeser played at Hughes and Demko levels, we would be touted as the up and coming contenders and J.B. as well Green would still be here. You need to treat him as an adult and let him know that he failed and partly due to his failure many people lost their jobs. This is what young professionals have to go through in their careers but you cannot defend them as if they are children. 

Well, I think we can build a statue of Petey as it seems he got Green and Benning fired. 
lovely aspect you brought to my attention. 

[aGENT]

17 minutes ago, Maddogy said:

Pettersson is not a child. You cannot treat him as such. You cannot simply brush aside the grave consequences of his failures. Had he and Boeser played at Hughes and Demko levels, we would be touted as the up and coming contenders and J.B. as well Green would still be here. You need to treat him as an adult and let him know that he failed and partly due to his failure many people lost their jobs. There are young doctors, young nurses, young lawyers that screwed up and caused irreparable damages. This is what young professionals have to go through in their careers but you cannot defend them as if they are children. 

I didn't.

[Gawdzukes]

1 hour ago, CanucksJay said:

That Nashville game was a huge disappointment for me. 

I want to see this team under a new light after the switch to BB. 

Cgy was disappointing but we are missing 3 D men that would normally play.  Defense didn't change for Nashville but i thought they'd play better. 

I think TDL (mid March) gives us just the right amount of time to tell whether we were pretenders under BB or whether we legitimately have a good team. 

I believe we'll get hammer back soon. 

That means we have our top 4 on defense healthy. If Burroughs and Poolman come back soon as well we'll have our full roster. 

The question then will shift to, whether the lack of offense was due to inept forwards or there wasn't a good enough breakout and puck skill from d the with half our guys  on the back end out of the line up. 

If we see our goals come up, we'll understand that lack of offense was a team issue as we were missing half our starters on defense. 

If everyone is back and we still arent generating offense and losing games, then sure, look to trade some pieces. 

 

Agreed, that game sucked. The timing is perfect though as you say. We will see but I feel we're going to come up a bit short. For me I definitely think the lack of scoring is directly related to our lack of defence quality. For most of the game we're only playing with 4 players (or less) essentially. That's why our forwards aren't scoring. They spend most of the time defending or chasing down errant pucks from our defence who can't make high level hockey plays.

 

The thing with Hamonic is it will probably take him 5-10 games to get up to speed. Tough to do when you're basically at a must win point. One way or other it's going to be exciting down the stretch.

[aGENT]

20 minutes ago, Harold Drunken said:

Speaking of narrative spins -  let's dive into that Baertschi trade a little closer since it was such a savvy trade from Jim.

 

Vancouver traded their second round pick in 2015 for Sven. Sven played 4 "meaningful" seasons in Vancouver with his best season being 35 points in 68 games, then failed to make the very average roster the following 2 years and struggled with injuries.

 

Calgary then used that second round pick to select Rasmus Andersson, now a top pairing defenseman for them and a very solid NHL player.

 

 

So....please - explain how that was a good trade. I'll wait. 

His injuries aren't the GM's fault. No guarantee we pick Andersson.

[Bure_Pavel]

5 hours ago, Russ said:

Motte at $2M AAV

 

 

Wait what?  You don't pay 4th liners 2M, and in 4 years he will less effective because I doubt he will have his speed or be able to play that agressive.

 

And we have this core already, how well is it doing?  What makes you think it'll suddenly become better?

Motte is worth 2M AAV due to the fact he is a top PKer on the team, I would be hesitant to give him anything over 2 though. 

[Harold Drunken]

25 minutes ago, aGENT said:

His injuries aren't the GM's fault. No guarantee we pick Andersson.

[Ferlands_Head]

23 hours ago, EddieVedder said:

Brock isnt a core player.

 

Not too sure what ppl are watching.  All i see is a slow and soft player that gets easily pushed off the puck and cant skate with the puck.  4 of the goals hes scored since bruce got here just happened to hit his stick.  2 others were shots that were going completey wide and deflected in.  

Wingers like Forsberg, Stone, Kaprizov, Raantenan, Huberdeau are core players..  Boeser is a 2nd liner that gets every chance under the sun to put up points yet 

On 2/3/2022 at 6:17 PM, NHL97OneTimer said:

Agree.  I've seen nothing of Boeser to suggest an upward trajectory in terms of being an all-rounder with more versatility.  $5.5M/yr would make him a great asset, but not $7.5M/yr+.  Trading Boeser is absolutely the right thing to do for the future of this club.  

I agree with both of you. I’d like to add that our goal is to win a cup and during our recent run we clearly saw who elevated their games. JT Miller EP Hughes Horvat and Demko. Brock disappeared when it mattered the most and imo is not a guy you win with. 

[Ferlands_Head]

23 hours ago, EddieVedder said:

Brock isnt a core player.

 

Not too sure what ppl are watching.  All i see is a slow and soft player that gets easily pushed off the puck and cant skate with the puck.  4 of the goals hes scored since bruce got here just happened to hit his stick.  2 others were shots that were going completey wide and deflected in.  

Wingers like Forsberg, Stone, Kaprizov, Raantenan, Huberdeau are core players..  Boeser is a 2nd liner that gets every chance under the sun to put up points yet 

On 2/3/2022 at 6:17 PM, NHL97OneTimer said:

Agree.  I've seen nothing of Boeser to suggest an upward trajectory in terms of being an all-rounder with more versatility.  $5.5M/yr would make him a great asset, but not $7.5M/yr+.  Trading Boeser is absolutely the right thing to do for the future of this club.  

I agree with both of you. I’d like to add that our goal is to win a cup and during our recent run we clearly saw who elevated their games. JT Miller EP Hughes Horvat and Demko. Brock disappeared when it mattered the most and imo is not a guy you win with. 

[Gawdzukes]

24 minutes ago, Ferlands_Head said:

 

 

[Redline]

On 2/2/2022 at 10:01 AM, Chris12345 said:

The Canucks have sucked for 10 years.

 

Change is needed. Don't need a blow up but the same core will not solve the issue.

Over the years they have been entertaining at times for sure and the Sedins bure trevor and a slew of others were fun to watch, People keep talking playoffs. I have watched and supported this team for a very long time and the grim reality is we have only been to the finals 3 times.. '82 '94 and 2011. Our team under this new management have a looong way to go to get us a cup... but I will still cheer them on!

[grandmaster]

On 2/2/2022 at 10:53 AM, NUCKER67 said:

Apparently, Dhaliwal reported a little while ago that JR met with Miller and Boeser camps yesterday, to get an idea what kinds of re-signing deals they want. Seems Miller is wanting 5-6 years at well over $7. 

 

So, Miller will be 35-36 when his next deal ends?  I don't like it, he'll be too old to be paying that kind of money to. The Canucks aren't in a position to go for it. 

 

 

I totally disagree with you. This would be a fantastic deal and I’m not concerned about his age. He has a lot of heart in his game. If you look around the NHL, you will see plenty of older players that still perform at high levels at that age. They all have heart. 

[Shirotashi]

On 2/2/2022 at 10:29 AM, Zhukini said:

In a vacuum that's fine. 

 

In real life that's a bottom 5 roster in the league by that point. 

You assume everyone's production stagnates, that may not be the case. Especially

with EP and our defence chipping in a bit more and Garland picks up again we could

start coming alive. 

[IBatch]

5 hours ago, grandmaster said:

I totally disagree with you. This would be a fantastic deal and I’m not concerned about his age. He has a lot of heart in his game. If you look around the NHL, you will see plenty of older players that still perform at high levels at that age. They all have heart. 

If we do this - resign all these guys, why did we even bother with a GM change?  We'd be doubling down on the work JB era put together to get where we are AND paying an extra 5 million or so for two of those players in BB and Miller, some more with Horvat etc..    If not Miller, then we lose a RW, who when is on ranks 10-12th or so in the league .... even now where does he rank PPG - or PGP (points per game played) overall for all the RWs in the league and goals per game including all his games ...?  Absolutely in the first line territory, and for sure top six.    Not worth over 7, and sure IF we re-sign him it will he will be headed to arbitration.    He's like Kessel-lite .... without his speed.    We have assets finally that other teams want - ones that aren't claused right up.   

 

As far as Miller goes that one's tough.   But change is required, maybe it's Horvats turn to have nice things on his wings? 

[HKSR]

8 hours ago, grandmaster said:

I totally disagree with you. This would be a fantastic deal and I’m not concerned about his age. He has a lot of heart in his game. If you look around the NHL, you will see plenty of older players that still perform at high levels at that age. They all have heart. 

 

4 hours ago, Shirotashi said:

You assume everyone's production stagnates, that may not be the case. Especially

with EP and our defence chipping in a bit more and Garland picks up again we could

start coming alive. 

Not to mention the cap limit will be WAY higher by the end of his contract.  As a % of cap hit, his cap will likely be the equivalent of 6.5 or 7m in today's cap world.  

 

And yes, the pro-trade folks here state that the other core guys will progress well in their development once Miller is gone, but for some reason if Miller stays, the core will just stagnate 

 

Edited February 6, 2022 by HKSR

[D.B Cooper]

I’m kinda confused as to why?

This is a dog pooh line up now.  
OP basically found a way to keep damn near the exact same lineup, years down the road.  
It’s not good now, why would it be better then?

 

Don't we want better?   
I know I sure do. I’m getting pretty sick of watching this slow weak team season after season. 
Go watch some other teams.  It’s like a different league watching some of these other teams.   
We aren’t even close.    This team kinda sucks. 
If we gotta sell everyone but Demko and Hughes…… let’s do it.  
 

Let’s ditch some of these passengers and kittens. 

[D.B Cooper]

On 2/4/2022 at 7:38 PM, Ferlands_Head said:

 

 

On 2/4/2022 at 8:02 PM, Gawdzukes said:

 

 

[grandmaster]

3 hours ago, IBatch said:

If we do this - resign all these guys, why did we even bother with a GM change?  We'd be doubling down on the work JB era put together to get where we are AND paying an extra 5 million or so for two of those players in BB and Miller, some more with Horvat etc..    If not Miller, then we lose a RW, who when is on ranks 10-12th or so in the league .... even now where does he rank PPG - or PGP (points per game played) overall for all the RWs in the league and goals per game including all his games ...?  Absolutely in the first line territory, and for sure top six.    Not worth over 7, and sure IF we re-sign him it will he will be headed to arbitration.    He's like Kessel-lite .... without his speed.    We have assets finally that other teams want - ones that aren't claused right up.   

 

As far as Miller goes that one's tough.   But change is required, maybe it's Horvats turn to have nice things on his wings? 

We GM changed because JB was terrible at dealing with situations. From slow negotiations where he “runs out of time” like he did with TT and not firing Green in time when that was the most obvious thing to do (that delay may have cost us the season). JB freezes under pressure. 
 

 

[aqua59]

On 2/2/2022 at 9:23 AM, HKSR said:

Here's what a 4 year plan COULD look like keeping everybody we have and yet still upgrading our defence on the right hand side.

Shows we don't NEED to trade anybody in the core and still be able to improve our roster.  Hamonic should be back next year with covid hopefully in the rear view mirror.  He walks and then we can make our UFA signing of a stay at home RHD like Mayfield for 2023-24.

 

Re-signings

JT Mller at $8.5M AAV

Boeser at $7.25M AAV

Bo at $7.25M AAV

Petey at $8.5M AAV

Motte at $2M AAV

Hogs at $3M AAV (bridge)

Podz at $3M AAV (bridge)

 

Trades and Movement

Pearson traded by 2023-24

Dickinson traded by 2023-24

Poolman traded by 2023-24

Lockwood, Rathbone, and Klimovich/Karlsson joins the team

 

UFA Signing in 2023-24:  Scott Mayfield or equivalent RHD for $4.5M AAV

 

Lines by 2023-24:

 

Hoglander-Petey-Boeser

Podz-Miller-Motte

Garland-Bo-Klimovich

ELC/4F-Lamikko-Lockwood

 

Hughes-Mayfield

OEL-Myers

Rathbone-Schenn

 

Demko

 

 EDIT:  If you're interested, I did the same exercise assuming Miller is traded for Chytil and Schneider here for comparison:

 

 

 

 

First off who's your core?

 

You have basically taken Jim Benning's fumbled up so called plan, (which we're seeing there was no plan past a quick fix patch work).

Your list is basically why Benning got fired.

 

The roster doesn't need a huge work over like Jim Rutherford mentioned but your list is a retread nightmare that would keep us mired in mediocrity. We need to get used to the fact some favorite players are going to get traded and not just core members 

 

Jim Benning put together a limited support group with a low ceiling of success. 

 

The bottom line is money and salary cap, you need to start there and pain is what that spells.

 

You better get used to some changes coming, ones we might not like. I say we not just you. 

 

 

 

 

 

[HKSR]

5 minutes ago, aqua59 said:

 

First off who's your core?

 

You have basically taken Jim Benning's fumbled up so called plan, (which we're seeing there was no plan past a quick fix patch work).

Your list is basically why Benning got fired.

 

The roster doesn't need a huge work over like Jim Rutherford mentioned but your list is a retread nightmare that would keep us mired in mediocrity. We need to get used to the fact some favorite players are going to get traded and not just core members 

 

Jim Benning put together a limited support group with a low ceiling of success. 

 

The bottom line is money and salary cap, you need to start there and pain is what that spells.

 

You better get used to some changes coming, ones we might not like. I say we not just you. 

 

 

 

 

 

If these guys play up to their potential, there's no concern.  Imagine if Petey and Boeser were playing like they should be this year.  

 

Then you can see I added a solid top 4 RHD in 2024 to play with Hughes.

 

If the young guys on this team progress like they should, scoring won't be an issue.  We know this team is top 5 on defense 5v5.  We know we have a franchise goaltender.  

 

This team has shown glimpses of what they can do.  They just need to learn to play with consistency.