No Core Player NEEDS to be traded...

[grandmaster]

2 hours ago, Alflives said:

The key is “if he wants to stay” at a reasonable price.  Has Miller bought a home here?  Nope.  Is he invested into our city?  Nope.  What indications are there Miller has any interest in staying here as a UFA?  None.  His value is highest at this TDL.  Trade him, and return assets identified (by JR and PA) that help us get to where we are better than with Miller.  IMO Miller must be traded.  Get the best deal.

Garland is the guy we trade only if it’s an overpay.  

Yes I’ve already stated that. If he wants to stay. Don’t make any assumptions either way. Only management and JT know about this aspect. Not you and not me.

[Harold Drunken]

2 hours ago, grandmaster said:

He is our MVP so I would put him as a franchise player. If he wants to stay and at a reasonable price, I say yes. Even at 6 years. This is no Louie freaking Player Name!

I would argue that Demko is our MVP but Miller is in the conversation 100%. McDavid, Matthew's, Mackinnon etc are franchise players.....Miller is a very good player but I don't use the term franchise player loosely I don't think anyone considers him a franchise cornerstone.  I'm just not keen on signing players into their mid to late 30's it rarely works out. The direction of the team doesn't coincide with signing a player like Miller long term but anything can happen. 

[HKSR]

20 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Actually, our club success hinges on Demko.  The data is already in on that matter.  When he is equal to or better than his opposite we win at about a .700 rate.  When he is stopping pucks under .880 we lose.  Demko needs to play well every game.  Petey, Boeser, Hughes, Miller, Bo, etc can have bad games here and there and we will still win providing Demko plays well.  

 

I just assume that's a given

 

I see this as Demko, Petey, and Hughes are all at their value deals right now.  Once they start breaking out of them and entering their truly BIG contracts, the cap issue will be WAY worse.  

[khay]

2 hours ago, grandmaster said:

He is our MVP so I would put him as a franchise player. If he wants to stay and at a reasonable price, I say yes. Even at 6 years. This is no Louie freaking Player Name!

Miller is a very good player but he is not a franchise player. Sedins were the last franchise players we had and it looks like Hughes will be the next franchise player and possibly Demko and hopefully Pettersson.

 

Franchise players usually spend long time with the team and puts up the numbers/awards/memorable playoff performances. Miller hasn't been here long enough to be labelled a franchise player.

 

There is too much risk if the direction of the team features a 30+ year old getting paid 9+ mil.

 

You do that only if you have a generational player like Crosby, Ovechkin, etc.

 

Miller is not a generational player.

 

[Alflives]

13 minutes ago, HKSR said:

I just assume that's a given

 

I see this as Demko, Petey, and Hughes are all at their value deals right now.  Once they start breaking out of them and entering their truly BIG contracts, the cap issue will be WAY worse.  

Demko is on a 5x5.  Hughes is under 8 for 6 more years.  Petey will be our only guy making over 8.  We shouldn’t have any Toronto or Edmonton stupid overpaid contracts to top guys that cripple our team’s depth.  

[HKSR]

6 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Demko is on a 5x5.  Hughes is under 8 for 6 more years.  Petey will be our only guy making over 8.  We shouldn’t have any Toronto or Edmonton stupid overpaid contracts to top guys that cripple our team’s depth.  

We might once Hughes and Demko are out of these value contracts.  I could see Demko double his salary, and Hughes in the $9m+ range.  

[Gawdzukes]

7 minutes ago, HKSR said:

I just assume that's a given

 

I see this as Demko, Petey, and Hughes are all at their value deals right now.  Once they start breaking out of them and entering their truly BIG contracts, the cap issue will be WAY worse.  

No, nope not at all if done correctly. JR and team have identified the cap as a problem area. If we take them for their word (I think they deserve that) they should be keenly aware of it in the future. In 4-5 years we'll have Demko still at $5m, Hughes at $7.85, and Petterson will be getting paid what he's worth(8-10). Horvat will be on a long term deal making around $6.5. That's only $28-$30m. By that time the cap should also be back to rising allowing us to ice a high quality team.

 

Demko and Hughes will need to be resigned starting in 25-26 at which point we will have a healthy look at the core in their early prime ... and hopefully no wasted money on older players. We'll see at that point who out of Petey, Bo, Hogz, (maybe Boes) and Pods possibly all stay. Myers will also be gone. It's the whole point of the thread. Ditch Miller to lose cap and get better players for cheaper for when these stars are in their prime. 

 

On the other hand we could pretend we're good enough now and blow our load early. 

[HKSR]

15 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

No, nope not at all if done correctly. JR and team have identified the cap as a problem area. If we take them for their word (I think they deserve that) they should be keenly aware of it in the future. In 4-5 years we'll have Demko still at $5m, Hughes at $7.85, and Petterson will be getting paid what he's worth(8-10). Horvat will be on a long term deal making around $6.5. That's only $28-$30m. By that time the cap should also be back to rising allowing us to ice a high quality team.

 

Demko and Hughes will need to be resigned starting in 25-26 at which point we will have a healthy look at the core in their early prime ... and hopefully no wasted money on older players. We'll see at that point who out of Petey, Bo, Hogz, (maybe Boes) and Pods possibly all stay. Myers will also be gone. It's the whole point of the thread. Ditch Miller to lose cap and get better players for cheaper for when these stars are in their prime. 

 

On the other hand we could pretend we're good enough now and blow our load early. 

We actually only have 4 more years (after this one) with Demko at 5m aav.  If he keeps playing the way he does, he's gonna be a 10m aav goalie.

 

The year after that, Hughes will be due as a UFA.

 

I'd say on their next contracts, Petey, Hughes, and Demko will combine for $28 to $30m AAV.

 

Here's my concern...

 

 

 

Edited February 6, 2022 by HKSR

[Gawdzukes]

4 minutes ago, HKSR said:

We actually only have 4 more years (after this one) with Demko at 5m aav.  If he keeps playing the way he does, he's gonna be a 10m aav goalie.

 

The year after that, Hughes will be due as a UFA.

 

I'd say on their next contracts, Petey, Hughes, and Demko will combine for $28 to $30m AAV.

 

 

Yeah that's good that we're guaranteed to have great players right? I highly doubt Demko will get that either even if he remains fairly terrific. He'll be 30 at that point as well. Either way it's the exact reason not to sign Miller for big $$ when that's the exact point in time he'll start regressing and we'll need that money to pay those younger, better players.

[HKSR]

20 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

Yeah that's good that we're guaranteed to have great players right? I highly doubt Demko will get that either even if he remains fairly terrific. He'll be 30 at that point as well. Either way it's the exact reason not to sign Miller for big $$ when that's the exact point in time he'll start regressing and we'll need that money to pay those younger, better players.

If we aren't putting faith into Hughes, Petey, and Demko, then why bother?

 

And I dont see how Demko won't want top dollar.  He's giving up several years of being underpaid until then.

[Gawdzukes]

11 minutes ago, HKSR said:

If we aren't putting faith into Hughes, Petey, and Demko, then why bother?

 

And I dont see how Demko won't want top dollar.  He's giving up several years of being underpaid until then.

We are though, holy you're confused.  That's why we're keeping those players and not Miller. I don't know man, that team you posted in the OP is pure rubbish. That's my main concern and why I want to take the logical approach. 

 

Edit: We'd better hope to win the Cup in the next 3 years with the exact same team we have now because after that it gets ugly.

 

Hoglander-Petey-Boeser

Podz-Miller-Motte

Garland-Bo-Klimovich

ELC/4F-Lamikko-Lockwood

 

Hughes-Mayfield

OEL-Myers

Rathbone-Schenn

 

 

Demko

Edited February 6, 2022 by Gawdzukes

[Timråfan]

3 hours ago, grandmaster said:

He is our MVP so I would put him as a franchise player. If he wants to stay and at a reasonable price, I say yes. Even at 6 years. This is no Louie freaking Player Name!

I hope you know that he is old and Petey young 

Petey has been better from the start. 

So if you call Miller a franchise player. What is Petey then? 

Petey has in his four first seasons 0.84PPgG

Miller has 0,66 after inflated numbers the last seasons here... 

 

[guntrix]

1 hour ago, HKSR said:

I just assume that's a given

 

I see this as Demko, Petey, and Hughes are all at their value deals right now.  Once they start breaking out of them and entering their truly BIG contracts, the cap issue will be WAY worse.  

Not just that, we also will have to factor in Podkolzin and Hoglander coming off their ELCs. 
 

Whoever’s stating that no core player needs to be traded needs to turn their PlayStation off. 

[Alflives]

6 minutes ago, HKSR said:

If we aren't putting faith into Hughes, Petey, and Demko, then why bother?

 

And I dont see how Demko won't want top dollar.  He's giving up several years of being underpaid until then.

Demko can want whatever.  His play will determine his next contract.  He plays like know he can, Bubble Boy, and we will have four years of winning.  He can be that dominant.  

[aGENT]

1 hour ago, HKSR said:

Which is fair, but everything really hinges on Petey and Boeser IMO.  If those 2 don't get going, nothing else will matter.

It all hinges on Petey, Hughes and Demko. Precisely why we need to build around them, and their prime.

 

EVERYTHING current management does, should be focused to making the team around them, as good and deep as possible between 2-7 years from now.

 

Including ripping off the Miller Band-Aid, solving our structural, succession and cap issues and getting assets that fit that window. 

[Nucker 67]

JR wants to clear cap, get high draft picks and prospects to create depth for years to come. Miller is not part of the long term core. They might not trade him this year, but I don't believe he'll be re-signing in VAN. The return would be too good to pass up and they can't really tie up that much money in a 30+ year old.

 

I really like how JR is doing this, by taking offers early on players so he'll have time to make decisions at the TDL.  I'd love to know what those offers are.

 

I'm a bit impatient, I want the to start doing things now. I still feel like nothing has changed, except for Boudreau. Same Benning roster.

[Nucker 67]

2022/23

 

X - Pettersson - Podkolzin

Hoglander - Horvat - X

X - X - X

Highmore - Lammikko - Lockwood

Bailey/Klimovich

 

Hughes - X

Ekman-Larsson - Myers

X - Schenn

Rathbone - Burroughs

Juulsen 

 

Demko

Martin

 

 

If they trade Miller, Boeser, Garland, Pearson, Motte, Dickinson, Chiasson, Poolman, and Halak

 

I think they re-sign Schenn

 

Lots of work to do if JR wants to be a contender in 2-3 years. I imagine the TDL could be very hectic for the Canucks and they might look like a different team next season.

 

 

 

 

[grandmaster]

3 hours ago, Timråfan said:

I hope you know that he is old and Petey young 

Petey has been better from the start. 

So if you call Miller a franchise player. What is Petey then? 

Petey has in his four first seasons 0.84PPgG

Miller has 0,66 after inflated numbers the last seasons here... 

 

Right now Miller is much better than Petey. I am talking now. Not 3 years ago.  Also, 28 is not old. He is in his prime and can play well in more aspects of the game. He is a difference maker unlike Petey. And like I said, there are plenty of examples of good players who go into the mid 30’s, including power forwards like JT.

[grandmaster]

5 hours ago, khay said:

Miller is a very good player but he is not a franchise player. Sedins were the last franchise players we had and it looks like Hughes will be the next franchise player and possibly Demko and hopefully Pettersson.

 

Franchise players usually spend long time with the team and puts up the numbers/awards/memorable playoff performances. Miller hasn't been here long enough to be labelled a franchise player.

 

There is too much risk if the direction of the team features a 30+ year old getting paid 9+ mil.

 

You do that only if you have a generational player like Crosby, Ovechkin, etc.

 

Miller is not a generational player.

 

1) If JT signs an extension, that would cement his stay here as a franchise player. He is the best power forward we have had since Bert. JT in fact does more than what Bert did; PK, face offs, leadership skills on and off the ice, etc. He is better than Petey. Sorry but not sorry.

 

2) you don’t need to be a “generational” player to be extended into your 30’s and don’t assume his extension will cost 9M per (you make way too many assumptions by the way).

[ShawnAntoski]

9 hours ago, Alflives said:

Yzerboy made his mistake missing on getting a goalie.  Cossa is an obvious Bustaroo bonsai.  Plus, Slow Mo and Dim Wit aren’t D to build around.  No, the ?Wings are craperolla.  Plus, is there a more disgusting NHL city?  Detroit is a ****hole.

We are in a way better position with Demko, Petey, and Hughes.  Plus, we live in Vancouver.  

At this point, the Redwings are still [patiently] rebuilding - but there is already, a lot of good pieces in there roster. Good chance, just like with Vasilevsky in Tampa, Yzerman will be focusing on goaltending - in the next few drafts.

 

Don't care too much about the city, at all but I will be following, the Redwings' progression from a patient rebuild, to where ever it will lead.  Yzerman, made his name in Tampa and he seems to had learned, a lot from his time there.    

Edited February 7, 2022 by ShawnAntoski