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Poll and Comments on Trade Deadline Strategy

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JamesB

Canuck Strategy at the Trade Deadline  

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As long as the Canucks look close in contention for a wildcard spot, I don't think Allvin can trade off major pieces as it sends a message that they are rebuilding which could sour certain players. May even make certain players want to leave and not resign with this group. I think even though in reality they are a middling group, JR and Allvin will allow this team to try and fight its way into the playoffs. 

 

I think if they continue to be around the playoff picture, the more major deals like Miller, Boeser, Garland etc will come in the offseason. Guys like Motte, Halak, etc will likely be the pieces that will be used to gain picks and younger pieces.

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16 minutes ago, CRAZY_4_NAZZY said:

As long as the Canucks look close in contention for a wildcard spot, I don't think Allvin can trade off major pieces as it sends a message that they are rebuilding which could sour certain players. May even make certain players want to leave and not resign with this group. I think even though in reality they are a middling group, JR and Allvin will allow this team to try and fight its way into the playoffs. 

 

I think if they continue to be around the playoff picture, the more major deals like Miller, Boeser, Garland etc will come in the offseason. Guys like Motte, Halak, etc will likely be the pieces that will be used to gain picks and younger pieces.

Actually, I don't believe this will be an issue at all.

 

Communication is clearly a strength of this management group as a whole and I'm sure they will have conversations with the core players they plan to keep about the direction they will go. JR has already told us they will be making moves that help us contend in two years.

 

This team cannot stand pat for the reason I mentioned in another thread:

 

10 hours ago, MrCanuck94 said:

As JR said, we can't be a capped out team as well as a non playoff team. Can they be better? Sure. Is the roster quality close to cup contending quality. Not close.

 

We need to bring in more younger assets with potential that can eventually add value for the dollar through ELC/lower $ amounts as well as finding good value for the dollar players in general through trades and free agency.

Edited by MrCanuck94
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20 minutes ago, CRAZY_4_NAZZY said:

As long as the Canucks look close in contention for a wildcard spot, I don't think Allvin can trade off major pieces as it sends a message that they are rebuilding which could sour certain players. May even make certain players want to leave and not resign with this group. I think even though in reality they are a middling group, JR and Allvin will allow this team to try and fight its way into the playoffs. 

 

I think if they continue to be around the playoff picture, the more major deals like Miller, Boeser, Garland etc will come in the offseason. Guys like Motte, Halak, etc will likely be the pieces that will be used to gain picks and younger pieces.

Does it though? Because the reality is teams usually make changes when the current on-ice product isn't good enough. Teams are always shuffling things around, either to find that combination that gets them deep come playoff time or that simply get to the playoffs in the first place. Settling for mediocrity or unsatisfactory results also sends a message. And folks can spin it any way they like, we've done x under Bruce or whatever, but the bottom line is if we miss we'll have made the playoff twice in nine seasons. We barely made the playoffs that one year under Green, we got in because of a combination of Hughes and Markstrom playing out of their mind, and math. We'd been sliding prior to the season being canceled after Markstrom went down, had it continued there's a strong chance we'd have missed. I haven't seen a consistently good Canucks team since maybe that Sedin/Vrbata team under Willie. 

 

And let's be real, the future direction is about more than just the few players who could be soured by significant moves. I don't care if moving a larger personality out, or a big piece out, ruffles some feathers. I care about having a roster that can consistently make the playoffs and legitimately compete, not this "let's just get to the playoffs" bit we've seen from JB over the last few years. It's about more than any individual player, or even about this present group, it's about being consistently competitive and I sure as hell haven't seen that since the early 2010's. I'm more than willing to be patient if management is actually willing to take a more patient approach, players will always come and go, that's just the way the business works. 

 

A rebuild would be a teardown, we have enough pieces in place that we likely don't require a teardown. Having Hughes and Demko alone are enough to negate that sort of approach imo. Could we see the roster shuffled around though? Faces moving in and out of our offense and D? Absolutely. And we should, because as JR said, this team has holes and a lot of question marks. 

Edited by Coconuts
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23 minutes ago, CRAZY_4_NAZZY said:

As long as the Canucks look close in contention for a wildcard spot, I don't think Allvin can trade off major pieces as it sends a message that they are rebuilding which could sour certain players. May even make certain players want to leave and not resign with this group. I think even though in reality they are a middling group, JR and Allvin will allow this team to try and fight its way into the playoffs. 

 

I think if they continue to be around the playoff picture, the more major deals like Miller, Boeser, Garland etc will come in the offseason. Guys like Motte, Halak, etc will likely be the pieces that will be used to gain picks and younger pieces.

J.B. went "all in" during the offseason and the players got him fired. Pettersson and Boeser were the chief culprits. If they are not happy trade them. If Bo does not wanna lead this team anymore trade him. 

Edited by Maddogy
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13 minutes ago, aGENT said:

As I've posted elsewhere, there's very real structural issues that need to be addressed. Never mind succession issues with Hamonic gone after next year (Schenn too) and Myers the year following. And none are of an age we likely want to be re-upping...not at anything resembling term or sizeable cap (if at all).

 

Are we looking forward to a right side of Poolman, Juulsen and Woo in a couple years....?:unsure:

 

If we aren't trading Miller for some of these replacement pieces, where are they coming from...? UFA?

 

If we're paying Miller $9m +/- how are we signing them as UFA's? Where's the cap coming from?

 

I don't think a lot of people wanting to keep him, are realistically looking at those factors. Like, at all.

 

IMO, it's not a matter of could/should/would. They HAVE to make some of these changes.

I know you're kind of locked into moving Miller, but there might be other avenues to improvement, like Boeser and Garland, and moving other contracts. 

 

But for sure there are some real issues on the right side defence that aren't going to be solved any other way if we're looking at a competitive window sooner than later. 

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Scoring & defence are probably the two biggest concerns, with speed/toughness being factors that elevate how competitive a team is from “decent” to “challenging”.  

 

Assuming Miller doesnt want to sign a reasonable term and cap hit, and Brock is looking for a payday on his next contract, I would:

 

re-sign (if possible):

 

Motte 3-4 years at 1.75-2mill

Lammikko 2-3 years at 1-1.5mill

Highmore 2-3 years at 1-1.5mill

 

Trade:

 

Miller

Boeser

Hamonic

Poolman (Burroughs can step in)

Garland (only if necessary/in the context of other trades )

Halak

 

Keep (for now):

 

Meyers

Pearson

Schenn

 

Re-sign (eventually):

Horvat

 

Try and address the needs above with youth. 

 

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1 minute ago, King Heffy said:

Sellers.  Make it clear to the players that the main reason is because of the hole Green dug and measures are being taken to make the team more competitive next year.

You forgot the worst franchise centre this season Elias Pettersson. 

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3 minutes ago, Maddogy said:

You forgot the worst franchise centre this season Elias Pettersson. 

He's started to play better now that he doesn't have a coach actively destroying his confidence.  It's going to take a while to undo all the damage Green caused to Petey and the rest of the players.

Edited by King Heffy
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17 minutes ago, MrCanuck94 said:

Actually, I don't believe this will be an issue at all.

 

Communication is clearly a strength of this management group as a whole and I'm sure they will have conversations with the core players they plan to keep about the direction they will go. JR has already told us they will be making moves that help us contend in two years.

 

This team cannot stand pat for the reason I mentioned in another thread:

 

 

12 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

Does it though? Because the reality is teams usually make changes when the current on-ice product isn't good enough. Teams are always shuffling things around, either to find that combination that gets them deep come playoff time or that simply get to the playoffs in the first place. Settling for mediocrity or unsatisfactory results also sends a message. And folks can spin it any way they like, we've done x under Bruce or whatever, but the bottom line is if we miss we'll have made the playoff twice in nine seasons. We barely made the playoffs that one year under Green, we got in because of a combination of Hughes and Markstrom playing out of their mind, and math. We'd been sliding prior to the season being canceled after Markstrom went down, had it continued there's a strong chance we'd have missed. I haven't seen a consistently good Canucks team since maybe that Sedin/Vrbata team under Willie. 

 

And let's be real, the future direction is about more than just the few players who could be soured by significant moves. I don't care if moving a larger personality out, or a big piece out, ruffles some feathers. I care about having a roster that can consistently make the playoffs and legitimately compete, not this "let's just get to the playoffs" bit we've seen from JB over the last few years. It's about more than any individual player, or even about this present group, it's about being consistently competitive and I sure as hell haven't seen that since the early 2010's. I'm more than willing to be patient if management is actually willing to take a more patient approach, players will always come and go, that's just the way the business works. 

 

A rebuild would be a teardown, we have enough pieces in place that we likely don't require a teardown. Having Hughes and Demko alone are enough to negate that sort of approach imo. Could we see the roster shuffled around though? Faces moving in and out of our offense and D? Absolutely. And we should, because as JR said, this team has holes and a lot of question marks. 

 

9 minutes ago, Maddogy said:

J.B. went "all in" during the offseason and the players got him fired. Pettersson and Boeser were the chief culprits. If they are not happy trade them. If Bo does not wanna lead this team anymore trade him. 

All very fair points. I do think though JR and Allvin will take some time to decide on the bigger pieces like Miller, Boeser, and Garland. I think the more immediate moves are Motte, Halak, and some other pending UFA's/RFA's. I could definitely be wrong, somehow my mind keeps thinking the Miller and bigger pieces will less likely happen should this team still be contention, and the more immediate moves will come with the more peripheral pieces as I listed above.

 

I do believe overall the long term vision needs to accumulate young pieces, picks and better building blocks. Part of me is just not sure those bigger names will be the one's move until the offseason. I do get that the Miller piece, he is at the height of his value and teams could have him for two playoff runs instead of one and we desperately need to accumulate young pieces.

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If we make the playoffs we will have played with a tremendous amount of success over the last 50 games.

This is not a 'limped in' position; if we make it, we're hot, and consistently so for more than half the season.

 

Because your poll options do not include standing pat until we see where we're at come the deadline, I reluctantly had to vote stand pat.

But my vote does not include standing pat through the TDL if we have fallen too far off this torrid pace.

 

I think JR is quite shrewd, if I remember correctly his trades with us, and him keeping both Gino and Sid, and surrounding them with good support.

So I also voted that I thought he would be making some moves, some of which may be difficult to understand until the dust settles; like after the 2022 draft.

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28 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

He's started to play better now that he doesn't have a coach actively destroying his confidence.  It's going to take a while to undo all the damage Green caused to Petey and the rest of the players.

During the main time we have to sell the players who actually played well so that Pettersson will have more time to find himself. He is such a precious little flower. 

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3 minutes ago, Maddogy said:

During the main time we have to sell the players who actually played well so that Pettersson will have more time to find himself. He is such a precious little flower. 

You're really underestimating how much of a problem a locker room cancer like Green can be.  Naslund almost requested a trade thanks to Keenan, should be have been moved?

 

This is the first time in Petterson's career they he has played under an NHL quality coach, and he's finally responding.  It makes no sense to sell low.

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7 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

You're really underestimating how much of a problem a locker room cancer like Green can be.  Naslund almost requested a trade thanks to Keenan, should be have been moved?

 

This is the first time in Petterson's career they he has played under an NHL quality coach, and he's finally responding.  It makes no sense to sell low.

Have you looked at his stats or watched any games...that's your idea of responding???????????

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We have Petterson, horvat, Garland, miller, boeser. Yet still having problems scoring? 

Personally think we need more grit on the top two lines to go along with the skill. 

I'm looking to trade boeser and garland.( Did you notice the play of that Jeanott kid the other night?)

I really like Pearson but I think he's trending down.

My trade plan would be as follows:

Have a discussion with the Miller camp and see if they are willing to discuss his extension. If they aren't or if the price is to high then he needs to be moved. 

Trade Pearson 

Trade Boeser

Trade garland.

 

Our focus should be  draft picks for these 3 players.  If we are going to replace these guys I would rather do it through free agents. 

I'm not sure how else we are going to get our prospect pool where it should be? 

For miller though I would like at least one quality roster player in addition to youth (picks, prospects) preferably I want truculance on this team. At least 2 forwards that can hit and play hockey. 

So my vision over the next two years is to build up the prospect pool and get meaner. 

The two biggest key things for this team right now are to get Pete back to his old self and handling the miller situation and get as much from that as we can. It's huge. 

I'm not sold on Martin or dipietro. 

Not sure what those two are worth, but I'd be looking to replace them both. 

Kyle Burroughs is a keeper. 

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The 32 thoughts guys, who are very dialed in said that Brock's name isn't even coming up as a trade prospect other teams are asking about.  Brock has to go because he's about to get too rich for the team's cap.  I agree with Elliott that of course Rutherford and crew will listen to offers for Miller, but unless they blow their socks off, he'll be here until the summer.  He's more likely to be traded around draft time than he is at the deadline, especially if the Canucks still have a shot at the playoffs. There's no rush to trade Miller since he's on a very team friendly contract through next season.  It sounds like NJ is interested in Garland, but he too has term, so there's no rush to trade him.  I think Halak goes for sure, I'm surprised they didn't find a team for him after his last game.  There are some contenders looking for goalkeeping help right now.  Halak has to go because his next game means a contract incentive kicks in that will count against the cap, plus Spencer Martin has earned that spot with his three outings while Halak and Demko were shut down.  I don't see any of our top DMen going as long as the team has a shot at the playoffs, maybe they'll move Hunt or Schenn as a depth guy to a contender, which would open a spot for Rathbone to get a look.  I could also see them moving Motte to give Lockwood a shot, but it all depends on where they are in the WC race.

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3 minutes ago, Moe Knows said:

Have you looked at his stats or watched any games...that's your idea of responding???????????

He's finally starting to score a little more now that Boudreau has had time with him.  Realistically, it will probably be next year before the damage Green caused is fully undone.  I'd rather give him the opportunity rather than write him off just because of Green's incompetence and lack of professionalism.

 

Have your never had a boss that was sabotaging your career?

Edited by King Heffy
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