Poll and Comments on Trade Deadline Strategy

[RU SERIOUS]

On 2/3/2022 at 12:52 PM, Maddogy said:

You forgot the worst franchise centre this season Elias Pettersson. 

 

On 2/3/2022 at 12:56 PM, King Heffy said:

He's started to play better now that he doesn't have a coach actively destroying his confidence.  It's going to take a while to undo all the damage Green caused to Petey and the rest of the players.

I agree with both comments.    While Petersson has looked like a borderline 4th liner/AHL player most of the season, he has recently resurfaced into what we should/would expect of him.    I say keep him one more year and see where we're at then.    Only Demko, QH and EP40 should be untouchable this year.   Everyone else should be shopped around to determine trade value - which is exactly what the Mgmt group is doing now.  If "The Right Deal" comes around - then pull the trigger.  We all know that this team MUST be reorganized and revamped - as JB & green left a hodge-podge of a mess to fix and it will require major surgery to get us where we need to be.

[IBatch]

3 hours ago, Fred65 said:

Don't worry most are just part of the flock. The concept of lookng and making your own mind up about player is foreign to most ( I plead not guilty) It was popular to believe trading JT was a good thing ( flock think) and now it's not popular ( flock think ) IMHO this concept of continually looking to the future is an off shoot of "the grass is always greener etc etc. Fans for some reason ( even after Juolevi and Virtanen ) think drafting a 1st round player some how = great success. It's not an automatic, little better than flipping a coin. The first move JR..PA is to clear some cap space ( how tthey get rid of Poolman on a long term contract is a cunundrum ) and scour the system that offer FA's .... NCAA, EU, CHL  Being Boeser of JT is dependent on what is offered, nothing to do with us  

Definitely agree that the draft is far from a science.   This league isn't easy to break into.   Gone is the era where you could quite literally fight your way into it. Clearing cap space won't be easy without removing an impact player.   Sure we could trade Motte and Schenn for a second a piece.   And maybe we should doesn't help much though.   Maybe 2-4 years down the road it would.    Agree it's all about the offer and who the heck knows what that could be.  Anyones guess.  A first a grade A prospect and a roster player back in both scenarios.   Lesser players of course otherwise why'd the other team bother.   Maybe there is a pure future deal available as well and maybe Allvin goes there.    Going to find out soon enough but there are quite a few posters that i respect in the "flock" given i can see they get the game well enough.   If you lean one way or the other I can respect that. 

[ShawnAntoski]

On 2/3/2022 at 12:00 PM, JamesB said:

There have been many comments on the Canucks' trade deadline strategy in various threads so I thought I would collect overall opinion by using a poll. Also, I wanted to make comments on a distinction that I have not seen previously discussed -- the distinction between what people think the club SHOULD do and what they think it WILL do.  

 

The three options are i) being sellers, ii) standing pat or iii) being buyers. I don't don't think the third option is a likely option but I included it for completeness. "Standing pat" could include small "hockey trades" -- trading one player for another at about the same career stage, like trading a depth forward for a depth defenceman or whatever. 

 

My answers are as follows.

 

SHOULD

 

First, as for what the Canucks should do, I think they should be sellers. I think they should make at least one big move (Miller and/or Boeser) and one or more smaller but still significant moves (Motte, Schenn, Halak, etc. ) and, for the right deal, it could make sense to move Garland, Myers, or Pearson. 

 

The argument against the seller option is the Canucks have been doing well since Boudreau took over, have an outside chance of making the playoffs this year, and would be favored to make the playoffs next year if they stand pat. 

 

The problem is that the Canucks are not as good as they looked during the initial Boudreau winning streak. Yes, they are better than they looked in the first part of the season and Boudreau is a better coach than Green. But a big part of their early success with Boudreau was having a red-hot goaltender. In that period Demko was the best goalie in the NHL with a save percentage around 95%. Demko is good, but that performance level is unsustainable. Also, the Canucks benefitted from the temporary energy boost that teams often get from a coaching change but that is also unsustainable. And that win streak had a lot of close games that could have gone either way. Also the quality of opposition was no more average.

 

As recent games indicate, the Canucks are not in same class as the top teams in the league and are no more than marginal playoff contenders. I would also add that the Canucks are a relatively slow team and a relatively soft team. And they do not generate have scoring. They would be unlikely to do well in the playoffs even if they did make it this year.

 

Also, if the Canucks do try to stand pat, they will decline after next year as they have a weak pipeline, aging players in key positions (OEL, Myers) and will almost certainly lose Miller. And it is doubtful that they even can stand pat as they do not have enough cap room to qualify Boeser. Something has to give. 

 

And, personally, I want to see a Cup in my lifetime. I have been following the Canucks since they entered the NHL and I want to see the team try to build a Cup contender. The current team is not a Cup contender. But, they have a chance to build a contender around an excellent goalie, a potential Norris-quality D-man (Hughes) and other two other key players who are still young (Horvat and Pettersson). They have a great opportunity to acquire assets that will allow for a window of opportunity to make Cup runs possibly as early as next year and quite likely two or three years down the road. 

 

WILL

 

I am pretty sure that JR will make significant moves. First, based on his comments, my sense is that he views the situation in a similar way to what I have just described. Second, I am sure he wants to put his mark on the team. He will not to run with the Benning team, which is what he has right now.

 

GM's and team presidents never explicitly criticize the people they replace. JR has come as close to explicit criticism as I have seen for such a situation. He has said that a team that is not in a playoff position should not be so cap-constrained. He also said that a team in the Canucks' position should not be trading high draft picks (like the Canucks have just done--going without first round picks for the past two years.) He has also indicated that the age structure of the team is not ideal. 

 

I think JR dislikes what I see as the Benning model -- mortgage the future in attempt to maybe sneak into the playoffs "now". I think JR wants to rebuild the prospect pipeline and realign the age distribution of the team so that an affordable group of high quality players peak together to open a Cup window.

 

JR said he would observe the team through January and then decide on strategy. The moves will not necessarily start right away and there is probably some advantage until waiting until closer to the deadline. JR could wait until the season is over, but you can often get the best possible deals at the deadline. It is certainly the easiest time to pick up draft picks. 

 

In any case, I am sure JR did not come to Vancouver to just oversee the team built by Benning. I think he is eager to get moving on restructuring the team. 

 

With the playoff push: Dickenson and Halak are the only expendable players. The more important roster moves can wait till the offseason.  

 

Give JBs' roster with Demko, a chance to make the playoffs.

Edited March 13, 2022 by ShawnAntoski

[NHL97OneTimer]

5 hours ago, ShawnAntoski said:

With the playoff push: Dickenson and Halak are the only expendable players. The more important roster moves can wait till the offseason.  

 

Give JBs' roster with Demko, a chance to make the playoffs.

Disagree.  If they can't get an affordable extension with Boeser, they'll have to trade him before the deadline.  Surely there's a contender that would love Boeser for a run.  

 

In a perfect world for me though, Boeser would sign a team-friendly extension this week and the core of this team can have a run at it.  EP, Garland and Hogs have all underperformed this year.....so I'm thinking about how good this team could be with all of them firing.  What this team really needs are excellent forecheckers and PK specialists.  

[JamesB]

8 hours ago, ShawnAntoski said:

With the playoff push: Dickenson and Halak are the only expendable players. The more important roster moves can wait till the offseason.  

 

Give JBs' roster with Demko, a chance to make the playoffs.

 

2 hours ago, NHL97OneTimer said:

Disagree.  If they can't get an affordable extension with Boeser, they'll have to trade him before the deadline.  Surely there's a contender that would love Boeser for a run.  

 

In a perfect world for me though, Boeser would sign a team-friendly extension this week and the core of this team can have a run at it.  EP, Garland and Hogs have all underperformed this year.....so I'm thinking about how good this team could be with all of them firing.  What this team really needs are excellent forecheckers and PK specialists.  

The Canucks have done so well under Boudreau that I am now inclined to agree with @ShawnAntoskithat  they should and probably will give the current team a chance to see if they can make the playoffs. The odds are still less than 50-50 but they have a solid chance. They might be underdogs but they are not longshots. However, I would mention that there is very little chance of trading either Dickinson or Halak as no-one would take them (and Halak has an NMC). I am sure the Canucks would love to trade Halak if they could.

 

But I agree with @NHL97OneTimer that the one exception to the stand pat policy should be Boeser. His qualifying offer is too high given the Canucks' cap situation and if they get a good offer they should probably take it.  

[Hairy Kneel]

Dickinson on ltir

[ShawnAntoski]

5 hours ago, Hairy Kneel said:

Dickinson on ltir

They are burying him to use the LTIR, to add a rental - another 1st, for a rental ?   Hope, not !

[Hairy Kneel]

8 minutes ago, ShawnAntoski said:

They are burying him to use the LTIR, to add a rental - another 1st, for a rental ?   Hope, not !

Cap flexibility roster flexibility. 

We're not missing him at all. 

[ShawnAntoski]

13 hours ago, JamesB said:

 

The Canucks have done so well under Boudreau that I am now inclined to agree with @ShawnAntoskithat  they should and probably will give the current team a chance to see if they can make the playoffs. The odds are still less than 50-50 but they have a solid chance. They might be underdogs but they are not longshots. However, I would mention that there is very little chance of trading either Dickinson or Halak as no-one would take them (and Halak has an NMC). I am sure the Canucks would love to trade Halak if they could.

 

But I agree with @NHL97OneTimer that the one exception to the stand pat policy should be Boeser. His qualifying offer is too high given the Canucks' cap situation and if they get a good offer they should probably take it.  

Boeser is just headed into his prime; and Kotkaniemi type signing can be done with Boeser, as well: he had a 6.1 million QO at season's end; and just like Boeser they are both not worth there projected QO.   Instead, he signed a long term contract with an annual hit of 4.25. So a deal can be done but it will come down to how JR & crew will convey there message/plan to who they think, should remain.  It has been interesting, to watch a GM, like Sakic keep his core together, whilst, building a legit prospect pool - just in case, he needs to make a move or bring up a capable depth piece.

Edited March 13, 2022 by ShawnAntoski

[ShawnAntoski]

Just now, Hairy Kneel said:

Cap flexibility roster flexibility. 

We're not missing him at all. 

Yeah, he has played himself out of the lineup, but the move to LTIR, is an obvious move for cap space.  A little concerning, if another 1st gets move for a rental. 

 

With Boudreau doing a good job earning points and the playoffs within reach - I am sure the itch to chase is there.   

[ShawnAntoski]

11 hours ago, NHL97OneTimer said:

Disagree.  If they can't get an affordable extension with Boeser, they'll have to trade him before the deadline.  Surely there's a contender that would love Boeser for a run.  

 

In a perfect world for me though, Boeser would sign a team-friendly extension this week and the core of this team can have a run at it.  EP, Garland and Hogs have all underperformed this year.....so I'm thinking about how good this team could be with all of them firing.  What this team really needs are excellent forecheckers and PK specialists.  

Just like the Kotkaniemi signing with his ludricous QO, a similar deal with Boeser can be done.  It will come down to how JR & Allvin, will sell there plan to the players they deemed, as the core.  Preferably, they keep Boeser (if he will signed a Kotkaniemi type deal) cause he is still headed into his prime.

[Nucker 67]

So many unknowns. IMO keep:

 

Miller - Pettersson - Podkolzin

?? - Horvat - ??

?? - ?? - ??

Highmore - Lammikko - ??  

 

Hughes - ??

OEL - ??

?? - Schenn

Burroughs

 

Demko

?? (Martin?)

 

Leaving Boeser, Garland, Hoglander, Pearson, Motte, Dickinson, Myers, Hamonic, Poolman and Halak to trade for improvements, prospects and picks.

[aGENT]

2 hours ago, ShawnAntoski said:

Yeah, he has played himself out of the lineup, but the move to LTIR, is an obvious move for cap space.  A little concerning, if another 1st gets move for a rental. 

 

With Boudreau doing a good job earning points and the playoffs within reach - I am sure the itch to chase is there.   

Can't see, after all the comments they've made about building a contender, acquiring assets, younger, faster, lower cap etc that that would be their angle. Like at all.

 

More likely table setting for potentially bringing back expiring cap in any potential trades to acquire those younger, faster, cheaper players, picks etc.

[Alflives]

1 hour ago, NUCKER67 said:

So many unknowns. IMO keep:

 

Miller - Pettersson - Podkolzin

?? - Horvat - ??

?? - ?? - ??

Highmore - Lammikko - ??  

 

Hughes - ??

OEL - ??

?? - Schenn

Burroughs

 

Demko

?? (Martin?)

 

Leaving Boeser, Garland, Hoglander, Pearson, Motte, Dickinson, Myers, Hamonic, Poolman and Halak to trade for improvements, prospects and picks.

If we are keeping Miller then why not play him at centre?  That's a fantastic team down the middle.  Hughes and OEL on D and Demko in net.  That's strong.

[ShawnAntoski]

38 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Can't see, after all the comments they've made about building a contender, acquiring assets, younger, faster, lower cap etc that that would be their angle. Like at all.

 

More likely table setting for potentially bringing back expiring cap in any potential trades to acquire those younger, faster, cheaper players, picks etc.

Yeah, the plan laid out, in the presser was very refreshing.  Just interesting, about the teams current situation: the last GM, paid alot in cap & futures to build a roster, that is meant to make the playoffs and the current regime  does not agree, it is ready to contend.  Perhaps the plan, by the last regime was - just to make the playoffs and hope for the best ?

 

As a fan, I am just enjoying the playoff push and waiting on what direction JR, will decide with the roster.

Edited March 13, 2022 by ShawnAntoski

[ShawnAntoski]

18 minutes ago, Alflives said:

If we are keeping Miller then why not play him at centre?  That's a fantastic team down the middle.  Hughes and OEL on D and Demko in net.  That's strong.

Team needs cap space and prospect to fill those spots and be cap conpliant.  Will a third straight rookie GM, be able to deliver ?

[aGENT]

5 minutes ago, ShawnAntoski said:

Yeah, the plan laid out, in the presser was very refreshing.  Just interesting, about the teams current situation: the last GM, paid alot in cap & futures to build a roster, that js meant to make the playoffs and the current regime  does not agree, it is ready to contend.  Perhaps the plan, by the last regime was just to make the playoffs and hope for the best ?

 

As a fan, I am just enjoying the playoff push and waiting on what direction JR, will decide with the roster.

I think the plan was that we had a little "mini-window" (playoff, not "contender") there with the young core on their ELC's. Worked out for one year and got them some valuable playoff experience that season.

 

Now however, is the time to cash in some of the valuable veteran pieces he brought in, at their peak value, to support that core in THEIR upcoming prime/contention window.

 

BUILD.

[Nucker 67]

I find it interesting that Benning and Green were fired and JR hired over 3 months ago, and the roster is the exact same. JR is apparently known for making a lot of trades. He said back then they would have the team assessed by the end of January, and they wanted to clear cap, and get younger and faster.  

 

But here we are in mid-March and things have changed drastically. VAN has actually clawed their way back and are now in the hunt for a playoff spot.

 

I'm starting to think that the only players in play for a trade at the TDL are the UFAs:  Motte, Chiasson, Hunt and Halak

 

They'll want to see how this season plays out, and then I believe they'll make some blockbusters in the summer.

[ShawnAntoski]

8 minutes ago, aGENT said:

I think the plan was that we had a little "mini-window" (playoff, not "contender") there with the young core on their ELC's. Worked out for one year and got them some valuable playoff experience that season.

 

Now however, is the time to cash in some of the valuable veteran pieces he brought in, at their peak value, to support that core in THEIR upcoming prime/contention window.

 

BUILD.

Yeah, hope they sell high on players above a certain age, that doest match JRs' projected compete windows for the roster.  Just like Yzerman, with Mantha: he sold high when he was, at age 25

[NHL97OneTimer]

4 hours ago, ShawnAntoski said:

Just like the Kotkaniemi signing with his ludricous QO, a similar deal with Boeser can be done.  It will come down to how JR & Allvin, will sell there plan to the players they deemed, as the core.  Preferably, they keep Boeser (if he will signed a Kotkaniemi type deal) cause he is still headed into his prime.

Agree - that type of deal would be excellent.  I'm not against Boeser.  We do need his scoring.  I just feel like he's not playing up to the contract that he will likely demand.  If this team wants to win a cup, guys like Miller and Boeser will have to step up and sign contracts that leave some money on the table.  I sure hope that happens.