[Proposal] Keep Miller, Move Brock for Brock

[Wolfgang Durst]

9 hours ago, Horvat is a Boss said:

I think trading Boeser would be bad for the Canucks for the following reasons:

 

1. Boeser is a goal scorer and goal scorers are rare, more so than I think most people realize. Boeser is a good one and if we moved him we would be trying to replace him for a long time. 
2. Boeser's contract concerns are overblown in my opinion. A long term contract around 7.5M is right in line with what players of Boeser's production get. Anything over 8 and it's more of a concern, but I genuinely don't think it will get that far. 
3. Boeser is an original core member that has grown with the young players and veterans in the organization. We all witnessed how the 2020 offseason when Tanev, Toffoli, Markstrom and Stetcher all left. Now is the time when we should commit to keeping our core players around and facilitating their growth. 
4. Boeser actually has proven that he is effective in the Playoffs. He was very, very solid for us in three rounds in the 2020 Playoffs. He scored some big goals, some greasy goals, was responsible defensively and didn't back down. 11 points in 17 games is pretty good for his first time in the Playoffs. 
5. Boeser is young enough to still align with our new window of contention. This is the main reason why I think it makes more sense to move Miller than Boeser (not that Miller will be bad, but Boeser just fits more cleanly). 

 

I know he's been in rumours for what feels like the last 2-3 years, but I hope he doesn't get moved. 

are you serious, man? Boeser's production does not justify a 7.5M contract. Boeser is slow and therefore has his strengths in the east-west game down low. If you want to make this team a better team you have to start bringing in players , wingers that can skate fast and back-check hard. Boeser's 24 points in 46 games so far, is a joke, it's underwhelming performance, no doubt about it.

[Noble 6]

14 hours ago, filthycanuck said:

Goal scorers are rare yes, but thats the 35 - 40 goal + variety LOL. You make it sound like Brock is a rare commodity, a guy thats NEVER scored 30 goals. To put in perspective if he's such a rare commodity, he's on pace for about 25 goals. Theres 2 other guys in our team currently in that pace and another 2 will be close. I hardly think Brock is elite

 

The reasons why we are more likely to move Miller than Boeser is because Boeser's value is nowhere near as high, and he's got no leverage commanding 7.5 million on a long term deal. Point a game guy like Miller, that plays centre, can play PP and PK, he's going to command top dollar

 

Brock Boeser has only had one playoff run. Lets not carried away here that he's all of a sudden Johan Franzen or Peter Forsberg, who turns into an absolute juggernaut in the playoffs

 

In his first two years Boeser scored 29 and 26 goals in 62 and 69 (nice) games respectively. Over full 82 game seasons his pace would put him at 38 and 31 goals respectively. He had a down year the next year in terms of goals but was still a good producer while battling injuries and his bum wrist. Last year was his first ever fully healthy season and he lead our team in scoring and posted his best season since his rookie year in terms of PPG with 0.88. Since Boudreau has taken over, Boeser has 8 goals and 14 points in 18 games. 

 

He's only had one Playoff run, but he showed well in it. That's better than having a bad showing in a Playoff run or not having one at all. He deserves some credit for that. 

 

I wouldn't say Boeser is elite or worthy of being considered among the top-5 or top-10 best wingers in the league, but I do think he would be harder to replace than most people realize. If we sign him for less than his qualifying offer then great. If Boeser wants >7.5M AND management doesn't feel comfortable with it, then move him. 

[Noble 6]

7 hours ago, Wolfgang Durst said:

are you serious, man? Boeser's production does not justify a 7.5M contract. Boeser is slow and therefore has his strengths in the east-west game down low. If you want to make this team a better team you have to start bringing in players , wingers that can skate fast and back-check hard. Boeser's 24 points in 46 games so far, is a joke, it's underwhelming performance, no doubt about it.

 

Since Boudreau took over Boeser has 8 goals and 14 points in 18 games, which would be a pace of around 36 goals and 64 points in a full year. Its a small sample size but given that he's been productive for 3/4 years in his career and last year he was fully healthy and lead our team in scoring, its not a crazy to imagine that a 30+ goal pace from Boeser over a full season could be normal. Now imagine those numbers if Pettersson bounced back and looked closer to how he did in the first two years. 

[filthycanuck]

9 hours ago, Horvat is a Boss said:

 

In his first two years Boeser scored 29 and 26 goals in 62 and 69 (nice) games respectively. Over full 82 game seasons his pace would put him at 38 and 31 goals respectively. He had a down year the next year in terms of goals but was still a good producer while battling injuries and his bum wrist. Last year was his first ever fully healthy season and he lead our team in scoring and posted his best season since his rookie year in terms of PPG with 0.88. Since Boudreau has taken over, Boeser has 8 goals and 14 points in 18 games. 

 

He's only had one Playoff run, but he showed well in it. That's better than having a bad showing in a Playoff run or not having one at all. He deserves some credit for that. 

 

I wouldn't say Boeser is elite or worthy of being considered among the top-5 or top-10 best wingers in the league, but I do think he would be harder to replace than most people realize. If we sign him for less than his qualifying offer then great. If Boeser wants >7.5M AND management doesn't feel comfortable with it, then move him. 

I'll agree with you on that one LOL

 

I suspect if Brock is going to be kept, his contract will probably be 6.5 range and will probably include a longer term. Boeser is not at that point where he can turn down a long term offer thats somewhat in his QO range. If he goes in the open market, I don't think he's going to get 7.5

[IBatch]

On 2/4/2022 at 7:34 PM, NUCKER67 said:

Looks good to me, even if it's within the division. For some reason I think playing against Boeser wouldn't be that hard. 

 

On another note:

 

It could be either Miller or Horvat leaving. I didn't think they would even consider trading Bo, seeing as he's the captain and a C great at faceoffs,  but Miller is also very good in that regard, and a more potent scorer and playmaker. One could even argue, a better leader.

 

Horvat will be due a raise after next season. What will he make? Maybe a million less than Miller?  They're only two years apart in age.

 

The question is: Who would you want leading the team into the playoffs every year?  Bo or JT?

 

 

That's a very tough one.   Horvat scored ten goals in 17 playoff type games in the  bubble for us, and was a big reason we beat St Loius.   He was assigned to play against one of the best two way C's in the game in O'Reilly - and that was a very dangerous line to us.      I'd stick with Horvat even though i love Miller - Horvat to me at least,  has more potential still.   Miller has or is peaking.  Horvat gets Pearson and LE lol and still out performed Miller last time.    

 

How would EP-Horvat-BB do?   Won't know unless you try it.    BB best season was with Horvat and Bear on the scoresheet at least.   On pace for close to 40 goals.    
 

Miller should be traded in 90% certain of that.   I don't want to trade him - it's just the cap.    The other option is to trade EP and keep Miller.   Brock meh - i think we are stuck with him unless we just perceive him as a cap dump.    

Edited February 6, 2022 by IBatch

[IBatch]

5 hours ago, filthycanuck said:

I'll agree with you on that one LOL

 

I suspect if Brock is going to be kept, his contract will probably be 6.5 range and will probably include a longer term. Boeser is not at that point where he can turn down a long term offer thats somewhat in his QO range. If he goes in the open market, I don't think he's going to get 7.5

It all depends on his view and his stupid agent who was too greedy last time.   Kudos to JB for not accepting that.    In the end he gave in - don't blame him for that, his agent took complete advantage.   

 

This is why i think the NHLPA and NHL need to make adjustments.   RFAs shouldn't be allowed to sign UFA type deals but still get away with it.    Also think that UFA contracts need to limited as well.   Overall the players also win because inevitable buy-outs can be avoided.   

[Noble 6]

11 hours ago, filthycanuck said:

I'll agree with you on that one LOL

 

I suspect if Brock is going to be kept, his contract will probably be 6.5 range and will probably include a longer term. Boeser is not at that point where he can turn down a long term offer thats somewhat in his QO range. If he goes in the open market, I don't think he's going to get 7.5

 

If Boeser went to market this offseason, I don't think there would be a shortage of teams willing to give him 7.5M on a long term deal. LA, ANA, SEA, CHI, NJD, BUF, DET, OTT, etc. are all teams that have the cap space and are looking to improve. In particular LA, ANA and NJD would be all over him. If you have the cap space to add someone who could potentially score 30+ goals consistently and put them with Byfield, Zegras or J. Hughes long term without giving up any assets, you jump on it. 

 

Ideally for the Canucks, Boeser would get somewhere between 6.5M - 7.5M on a long term deal. His qualifying offer says his next deal has to start at 7.5M though, which is the issue. At the end of the day, I think Boeser at 7.65M long term would be better than trying to replace him, but if management disagrees then I don't have much problem with trading him either. However, management better have an idea for replacing him quickly because finding effective players for your top-6 is difficult. 

[Alflives]

Trade Miller.  It has to be done.  All others we can wait.  

[aGENT]

3 minutes ago, Horvat is a Boss said:

His qualifying offer says his next deal has to start at 7.5M though, which is the issue. 

 

Nope...

[garthsbutcher]

Flow should probably go

[Canucks Curse]

Miller to COL for Newhook and Justin Barron, boom, re-tool complete