We need a dominant Defenseman (Discussion)

[IBatch]

17 hours ago, J.I.A.H.N said:

I am not saying he can not but more so, he is not that dynamic, take control of a game type player, that the other are........

 

It is not that Hughes is not very skilled and it is not a contest, he simply can not dominate a game.....that is not his skill set

 

really glad he is here, and I would not want to trade him.......I am just saying

Brian Campbell dominated games without contact.    And QHs can too.   Don't have to be a Chris Chelios type (junkyard dog - way undersized for how he played) to be successful as a small D these days either.   He's night and day compared to last season and do think that's part of the OEL Myers pairing who does a lot of the heavy lifting .... playing 28plus minute games with some regularity under Bruce is pretty impressive.   

 

One of the things that bugged me - about calling QHs a number one D - was that his D game was hurting us and that he didn't kill penalties....Pronger, Hedman, Lidstrom, Borque - Weber, Doughty, first pairing guys that also play on both special teams.   Bruce is letting him and he's done decently enough so far.    Keep waiting for him to get hammered .... Like Garland really tough to hit and when he's clobbered pops right back up (so far at least).

 

I still have my doubts but a lot of that's going away.   Back to Campbell - he was a thorn in our side against CHI ... and i'd say their most important D before he got traded - then Kieth took over.   Another small PMD in a tougher era.

 

QHs no longer hurts us 5 x 5 .... at least this year.   Was also insulated last season but Edler Schmidt isn't as nearly as good as OEL Myers either... can say i'm now cautiously optimistic he's got a good chance of becoming a number one D (both special teams and 5 x 5 required)...where as last year no way.  

[c00kies]

18 hours ago, hammertime said:

I mean so are like 80% of the teams in the league though. Yet half of CDC wants to dump Myers like hot trash when he's the only guy on the squad who can actually do the things you discribe. Is he consistent at it lol no if he was he would be a unicorn like Chara. Ill take chaos Giraffe. 

 

I think more importantly what we need on D Is a righty who can play steady defense and is a threat to shoot. Not having a point shot is like playing 3 on 5 in the O zone and why a team like Calgary's wet blanket system can hold us to 2 shots or whatever through 40 mins and multiple PP's. 

 

The problem.... There really isn't a guy like that available for trade that isn't pushing retirement age or out of our price range. Petry/Hamilton

 

Maybe we draft Chesley he's got a really deceptive quick release and plays a stable defensive game with a sprinkle of sand. But he's 2 or 3 years away I'm afraid there isn't really a short term fix unless maybe Petry but he's 34 with 3 years left after this. That's gonna be a hard sell to this youth obsessed fanbase.

We are missing Sami Salo. He was one of my favorite defensemen for us because he had a big, pretty accurate slapper (not like Phaneuf) and he was good defensively as well. 

 

I guess you could argue for someone bigger and meaner to clear the crease, but a Salo would be a good addition.

[komodo0921]

19 hours ago, aGENT said:

The best answer is Miller for Schneider.

 

Draft another D or C this summer with our early-ish first.

 

Keep on trucking.

Moving Miller definitely fits the narrative of stepping back.

Schneider is definitely at the top of my wish-list and would signal the beginning of a blue-line re-tool.

Hughes     Schneider

Great pairing for a lot of years.

Miller for Schneider, Othmann, and their first 2023

This year's draft is not very deep. 

I'm willing to wait a year for the first.

[aGENT]

39 minutes ago, komodo0921 said:

Moving Miller definitely fits the narrative of stepping back.

Schneider is definitely at the top of my wish-list and would signal the beginning of a blue-line re-tool.

Hughes     Schneider

Great pairing for a lot of years.

Miller for Schneider, Othmann, and their first 2023

This year's draft is not very deep. 

I'm willing to wait a year for the first.

I'd take it on the off chance we could package it with ours to move up and get Jiricek too 

[hammertime]

1 hour ago, c00kies said:

We are missing Sami Salo. He was one of my favorite defensemen for us because he had a big, pretty accurate slapper (not like Phaneuf) and he was good defensively as well. 

 

I guess you could argue for someone bigger and meaner to clear the crease, but a Salo would be a good addition.

JR: Salo and Willie Mitchell git er dunn Alvin.

PA: But sir they've been retired for a decade.

JR: I said git er dunn! 

[RWJC]

8 hours ago, c00kies said:

We are missing Sami Salo. He was one of my favorite defensemen for us because he had a big, pretty accurate slapper (not like Phaneuf) and he was good defensively as well. 

 

I guess you could argue for someone bigger and meaner to clear the crease, but a Salo would be a good addition.

Agreed except for the “fragile - handle with care” sticker that he came with.

[DownUndaCanuck]

I agree and always have, when you look at Cup winners they often have a number 1 guy who plays 25 minutes in the playoffs and checks opposing team's top players to death. Several teams have a guy like this in their organisation, usually from drafting top-3, but many teams don't. Do you need them to win a Cup? Most likely. Not many teams have won the Cup without one (looking back, you've got Carolina ages ago). You really need a star defenceman in your core and not just offensively but someone big and strong who can defend well.

Hedman is the perfect example of what you really need - big, strong, highly drafted and offensively skilled defenceman. Sadly these guys are hard to come by. Owen Powers may be the next Hedman, who knows. Ekblad certainly is following in Hedman's footsteps a bit too, as is Makar. 

 

You have to mention Hughes in the conversation but I don't think he's strong or physical enough to contend in a 7 game series against big, strong forwards. He's a brilliant defenceman, one of the best offensively but when it comes down to a grinding playoff series you know he's going to get targetted and guys are going to run him. Players can't physically crush guys like Hedman but Hughes is going to get rocked any chance other teams get, and I worry he won't last several playoff series. 

 

For this team to be really successful IMO we need another star defenceman, someone who can put up around 30-50 points but more importantly a young, strong guy who can shutdown other teams. Is Schneider that guy? Maybe, but I worry he's not as "elite" as these other guys.

 

The best way to acquire these defencemen is via the draft, otherwise no team will trade them because they're so valuable. We've got a better chance acquiring picks than trading for a guy like Power. When you look at the next generation of these guys, players like Byfield and Nurse aren't going to get traded away for anything.

Sadly the Canucks are never bad enough to end up drafting top-3 to pick one of these generational defencemen so our best bet is to defend by committee, in which we're still ways off, and build around Hughes to try and get him a shutdown defenceman to essentially have 2 players do the work of one Hedman.

[aGENT]

7 hours ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

Hedman is the perfect example of what you really need - big, strong, highly drafted and offensively skilled defenceman. Sadly these guys are hard to come by. Owen Powers may be the next Hedman, who knows. Ekblad certainly is following in Hedman's footsteps a bit too, as is Makar. 

 

You have to mention Hughes in the conversation but I don't think he's strong or physical enough to contend in a 7 game series against big, strong forwards. 

You can't include Makar in that conversation and exclude Hughes.

 

That said, I generally agree, we need a "Seabrook" to Hughes "Kieth".

 

And like Seabrook, we don't need that guy (Schneider?) to be a #1 "Hedman" type with Hughes. A solid #2 in his prime will be fine. Particularly if we can build out a solid D behind them as well (draft Jiricek?).

[Nucker 67]

Hoping Jett Woo turns into an NHL player one day, and Juulsen continues to develop. I've liked his game so far.

 

Of course, these guys won't be helping the Canucks a whole lot next season. Allvin needs to upgrade that D, and maybe trading OEL or Myers (to free up cap) might be part of it?

 

So curious to see what Allvin's first trade/move will be

 

 

 

[higgyfan]

1 hour ago, NUCKER67 said:

Hoping Jett Woo turns into an NHL player one day, and Juulsen continues to develop. I've liked his game so far.

 

Of course, these guys won't be helping the Canucks a whole lot next season. Allvin needs to upgrade that D, and maybe trading OEL or Myers (to free up cap) might be part of it?

 

So curious to see what Allvin's first trade/move will be

 

 

 

Although I understand some fans are frustrated with their pay scale, I really don't think it would be that easy to fill their huge minute munching game with a young player.  OEL needs to show his offensive flair more, but his salary isn't the issue; it's his term.  Myers' offensive #s have dropped of this season as well, so it may be due to deployment issues for both of them.  OEL and Myers also play well in the more physical games as well.

 

For now, I think the Nucks need these two players until a young player(s) can develop their games enough to replace  either one of them.

 

As far as finding a good partner for Hughes; he doesn't need a stud dman.  He requires a RD that can play the heavy defensive game when needed, but has some offensive acumen to support Hughes in his offensive rushes and his duration in the o-zone.

[komodo0921]

On 2/7/2022 at 8:18 AM, aGENT said:

I'd take it on the off chance we could package it with ours to move up and get Jiricek too 

Another guy that was brought up in another post, is Luke Prokop.

This could be a sneaky pick up. 

[IBatch]

I think to get a dominant D you've either got to overpay for one when they become a UFA or draft them.   Of the two drafting of course is a better avenue.   Not easy to find one - but quite a few have been found in the second and third round historically.    Can't remember what team did this - but used every single pick on defenseman and missed on all of them.   It's not easy either way.     Hamilton and before him AP from St. Louis, before them EK.   Your going to almost certainly overpay going the free agent route.    Getting ARI to retain gets him closer to actual value ... there are actually quite a few D's around or over 7 that aren't worth it.   

 

And it's extremely rare to get a D that's amazing from the start even highly touted ones like Dahlin and Hedman.   When Doughty was drafted there was some discussion if Bogosian was the better pick.   It's not close to a science either way you want to do it.