IBatch Posted February 7, 2022 Share Posted February 7, 2022 14 hours ago, Alflives said: Miller is highly likely to leave as a UFA. Sure we can add for next season, but what does our team look like after Miller leaves as a UFA and we don’t have the young assets we could have had trading him? He then goes from been a fan favourite to a JB and also, really an Allvin mistake as well. The moment we get an offer too nice to not take - you trade Miller. If it doesn't come (yes i know we've all drooled at what his value could be) you still trade him. The only reason not to, is if you want playoff experience for your younger guys. We probably lose the equivalent of a late first by keeping him on the team until next season's TDL...not the worst thing in the world. But likely not ideal - with retention we lose a first and second rounder this year - also risk even more if he gets injured and or regresses (unlikely but it's also a valid metric). 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted February 7, 2022 Share Posted February 7, 2022 13 hours ago, JamesB said: The net trade value of this group of players is (Halak, Hominic, Poolman, Pearson, and Chaisson) is probably zero. Halak has positive value but Poolman and Hominic probably have negative value -- they are overpaid and have been disappointing with the Canucks. You would probably need to give up something to get someone to take them. Chiasson is a replacement level player. He has 9 pts in the 37 games, which is a pretty standard 4th line level, but that includes more PP time and more PP points than most 4th liners normally get. And his defence is below average. I don't think he has trade value. Pearson might have have positive value if the Canucks retain salary. He is a good enough player to improve a lot of teams but his cap hit is too high and he is signed for 2 more years after this year. We could add Dickinson. Lammikko and Highmore to the list of guys with very little if any trade value. If Allvin/JR can get any net positive from this group of players I would be impressed. Even if JR could get rid of Poolman, Hominic and Pearson for a net zero in terms of assets that would be probably be good as it would free up cap space that the Canucks desperately need. The Canucks do have players with significant positive value. This includes: Miller Boeser Garland Motte Schenn Possibly Myers could be added to the this group, although his cap hit is high. I am not saying these guys should be traded. It depends on what the Canucks could get in return. I don't think OEL is going anywhere. I think the list of untouchables consists of Demko, Hughes, Pettersson, Horvat, Hoglander and Podkolzin.. Lammy and Highmore have been playing really well with Motte so i'm not so sure about that. Given a second rounder has a 50% chance of playing as much as they likely will ... is it even worth it to us? Not really. Cheap depth helps win cups. Both are playing their ways into our future - especially Highmore. Motte for sure is a decent trade chip but would only go there if the team is worried about his ability to stay healthy, which is his only issue. Might be worth trading Motte - if a team considered him equal to a Coleman etc ... take the late first and be happy about it. A late second would be a tough choice. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted February 7, 2022 Share Posted February 7, 2022 (edited) 13 hours ago, khay said: The notion that we can retool without trading at least one of the core pieces is untrue. Halak maybe a good draft pick. Not much for everyone else. Miller is leaving this team for sure, it's just the timing and in what manner. 1. This TDL at 50% retained to maximize the return on Miller. We don't need much use for cap space next year as we are in a retool. 2. In the off season after finding out that he wants to test the market. 3. Next TDL. Probably a 1st + B level prospect? He is not going to get us much back unless there is a bidding war. 4. Leaves via UFA. No asset recouped. But this is not the worst case. 5. There is an off chance that we do re-sign him. I would guess that scenario would involve us overpaying him well above his market value, in which case, his agent would advise Miller to sign the deal. I can see this case happening if Miller is offered something like 10 mil x 7 or 8 year deal. He would be stupid not to take that deal. Because his true worth isn't anywhere near that except on this team void of any star offensive player that can put the puck in the net with regularity. If scenario 5 takes place, then he is leaving us in the similar way Player Name left. We will see Player Name Wat emoji be replace by Miller' Wat emoji in a few years. I prefer scenario 1, then scenario 2, then scenario 3, and none of those work out, I'd still rather let him walk to UFA than to sign him to a back crippling contract suggested in scenario 5. Those of you that think he will sign 8 mil x 5 years is just dreaming. I mean, if he signs that deal in the off season, I'd love to keep him. And I'd love to be proven wrong. I'd love for Miller to come out and say that he loves it here and he wants to stay a Canuck long term. Haven't heard once and he's had many chances to do so. No team is offering him that much money unless they are mental. Do think your pretty close with the 8 x 5 - think it will be more like 9 x 5 or 8 x 6 .... and that he'd take the extra year gaurenteed money. Not sure any team is going to pay him until he's 37/38....but do agree we are probably better off letting him walk then re-signing his legacy deal. The only deal i'd take is something like 6 x 8. He commits to being a Canuck for the rest of his career, the money overall is about the same but the cap hit doesn't hurt us. That would also make us the team that does pay him until he's 37/38 ... in which case he's likely bought out. Edited February 7, 2022 by IBatch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted February 7, 2022 Share Posted February 7, 2022 11 hours ago, Father Ryan said: Me as a GM looking at this list. Hamonic - pass; he would cost an asset and likely not provide more than 50 games total. And that's if he would even report. His preference for Western Canada leaves Calgary as the best option...and they likely would say "no". Pearson - I'd be mildly interested, but the deal would have to be spiced up a little. Alone, maybe a 5th. Maybe Poolman - hard pass. For what he provides, I can get that a couple of weeks after the start of Free Agent season, and probably for not much above league minimum Halak - IF he waives, a 3rd Chiasson - TDL...maybe a 7th. This summer...no more than a PTO Miller - I'd be jumping up and down, until I realized the cost would be likely my best D prospect, a good C prospect and this year's 1st, at least. Likely would be my best young D already playing. I'd have to think on that, real hard Boeser - I'll include him in the speculation. I'd open with a 3rd + 2nd best D prospect and a B+ wing prospect. Might get bargained up in one of those three, but not two of them. He really hasn't shown any serious consistency since his rookie year, and looks to be becoming "injury prone" Garland - Bargaining starts with a 2nd, +either A- wing or D prospect. Not sure I'd part with three players there. Brock, Miller and Garland are all valuable players worthy of value back. Brock is the trickiest of them - but if you involved his agent and him in the deal - placed him where he wants to sign long term we could get some good things back. Otherwise we are stuck with him. Garland is absolutely valuable why teams are kicking tires on him already - a lot of teams would love to have cost certainly with a guy like him locked up for his entire peak prime. Wouldn't trade him unless it's to keep Miller and Horvat. Difficult/impossible to navigate this season so he'd have to stay on. Miller - enough has been said about him. The return might not be nearly as amazing as some hope - but i'd expect with retention it would be very solid at least. At least one first, a grade A prospect and roster player coming back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted February 7, 2022 Share Posted February 7, 2022 Schenn, Motte and Miller are the three guys i think we will see gone at the TDL. We will end up with a couple extra seconds, a third and a first - plus a roster player (C or RHD) and grade A prospect. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smithers joe Posted February 7, 2022 Share Posted February 7, 2022 the only ones i'm hearing any interest in are; miller, garland, boeser, motte, schenn and halak. you might be able to wave the other guys and home someone picks them up for nothing. then you could fold up the team. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewbieCanuckFan Posted February 7, 2022 Share Posted February 7, 2022 14 hours ago, Angry Goose said: Poolman would have some value, given hes a RH shot and could be of value to a rebuilding team that needs some stability in the back end. Maybe a B level prospect, or 3rd round pick. I dunno. He’s a bottom pairing defenseman signed on for three more seasons after this with a 2.5 million cap hit. I’d be ticked at Rutherford if he gave up anything to trade for a player like that. Being a RH has some value but it’s hardly like he excels at anything defensively or offensively. He’ll have value as depth in the final year of his contract. Can unload him for something then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook007 Posted February 7, 2022 Share Posted February 7, 2022 17 hours ago, JamesB said: The net trade value of this group of players is (Halak, Hominic, Poolman, Pearson, and Chaisson) is probably zero. Halak has positive value but Poolman and Hominic probably have negative value -- they are overpaid and have been disappointing with the Canucks. You would probably need to give up something to get someone to take them. Chiasson is a replacement level player. He has 9 pts in the 37 games, which is a pretty standard 4th line level, but that includes more PP time and more PP points than most 4th liners normally get. And his defence is below average. I don't think he has trade value. Pearson might have have positive value if the Canucks retain salary. He is a good enough player to improve a lot of teams but his cap hit is too high and he is signed for 2 more years after this year. We could add Dickinson. Lammikko and Highmore to the list of guys with very little if any trade value. If Allvin/JR can get any net positive from this group of players I would be impressed. Even if JR could get rid of Poolman, Hominic and Pearson for a net zero in terms of assets that would be probably be good as it would free up cap space that the Canucks desperately need. The Canucks do have players with significant positive value. This includes: Miller Boeser Garland Motte Schenn Possibly Myers could be added to the this group, although his cap hit is high. I am not saying these guys should be traded. It depends on what the Canucks could get in return. I don't think OEL is going anywhere. I think the list of untouchables consists of Demko, Hughes, Pettersson, Horvat, Hoglander and Podkolzin.. Pretty close James... I'm not even sure Hogz is out of the woods yet... If a deal for great D prospect or C prospect hangs in the balance, I could easily see a swap of young roster players happening involving Hogs... Agree with Petey, as his value is at an all time low just now, and if he recoups his swagger, he'd be too important to us... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 7, 2022 Share Posted February 7, 2022 6 hours ago, DontMessMe said: Kinda salty we gave up the 9th overall pick for him. Shouldve stayed the course and not made that trade with ARZ for OEL as well sigh Important to keep the draft class in mind. There are a few 2022 draft eligible players outscoring Dylan Guenther in the WHL at the moment. We will see how he pans out, but last year's draft was generally considered to be a weak one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appleboy Posted February 7, 2022 Share Posted February 7, 2022 One or two would bring you a late round pick the rest would cost you to move out. Plus you would probably have to retain salary. Benning left his hand cuffs behind. It will take two years to get out of this mess unless they through away high picks. This is why some of us think that they will have no choice but to trade a couple of higher end talents. Then comes the issue with how your other core players see their future when they see a player like Miller moved. I still think they should reset this clubs age and build around the very young. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted February 7, 2022 Share Posted February 7, 2022 5 hours ago, IBatch said: Lammy and Highmore have been playing really well with Motte so i'm not so sure about that. Given a second rounder has a 50% chance of playing as much as they likely will ... is it even worth it to us? Not really. Cheap depth helps win cups. Both are playing their ways into our future - especially Highmore. Motte for sure is a decent trade chip but would only go there if the team is worried about his ability to stay healthy, which is his only issue. Might be worth trading Motte - if a team considered him equal to a Coleman etc ... take the late first and be happy about it. A late second would be a tough choice. The other reason would be if he has no plans to extend for anything resembling a reasonable $1.5-$2m deal. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khay Posted February 7, 2022 Share Posted February 7, 2022 6 hours ago, IBatch said: No team is offering him that much money unless they are mental. Do think your pretty close with the 8 x 5 - think it will be more like 9 x 5 or 8 x 6 .... and that he'd take the extra year gaurenteed money. Not sure any team is going to pay him until he's 37/38....but do agree we are probably better off letting him walk then re-signing his legacy deal. The only deal i'd take is something like 6 x 8. He commits to being a Canuck for the rest of his career, the money overall is about the same but the cap hit doesn't hurt us. That would also make us the team that does pay him until he's 37/38 ... in which case he's likely bought out. I don't like to bash on Jim Benning especially now that he is gone. But, I think JB would have offered whatever Miller asked to keep him here. JB doesn't do too well with UFA negotiations. Signing Miller to 9-10 mil for 7-8 years would be the end of our cup contention. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesB Posted February 7, 2022 Share Posted February 7, 2022 6 hours ago, IBatch said: Lammy and Highmore have been playing really well with Motte so i'm not so sure about that. Given a second rounder has a 50% chance of playing as much as they likely will ... is it even worth it to us? Not really. Cheap depth helps win cups. Both are playing their ways into our future - especially Highmore. Motte for sure is a decent trade chip but would only go there if the team is worried about his ability to stay healthy, which is his only issue. Might be worth trading Motte - if a team considered him equal to a Coleman etc ... take the late first and be happy about it. A late second would be a tough choice. I pretty much agree. Lammy and Highmore have been pretty good as defensively-oriented bottom 6 players. And both guys are getting paid approximately the league minimum and both are RFAs. So I think they do have positive value for the Canucks. But I still think their trade value is low. Forwards scoring at a 4th line level (as they are) rarely go for anything of value at TDL. I think there is no way any team is giving up a second or even a third round pick for either guy. They could be sweeteners in a bigger deal or they could be traded in a minor "hockey trade". But I don't see either guy generating a significant asset in return. I agree that they could provide useful depth for the Canucks in the future. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BPA Posted February 7, 2022 Share Posted February 7, 2022 7 hours ago, IBatch said: No team is offering him that much money unless they are mental. Do think your pretty close with the 8 x 5 - think it will be more like 9 x 5 or 8 x 6 .... and that he'd take the extra year gaurenteed money. Not sure any team is going to pay him until he's 37/38....but do agree we are probably better off letting him walk then re-signing his legacy deal. The only deal i'd take is something like 6 x 8. He commits to being a Canuck for the rest of his career, the money overall is about the same but the cap hit doesn't hurt us. That would also make us the team that does pay him until he's 37/38 ... in which case he's likely bought out. No way is Miller gonna sign for $6M x 8yr. He would be paid less than than EP and QH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted February 7, 2022 Share Posted February 7, 2022 (edited) 24 minutes ago, BPA said: No way is Miller gonna sign for $6M x 8yr. He would be paid less than than EP and QH. Yep. But why would we sign him for more when even with him in the lineup we are not a contender. That's kind of the point isn't it? Edit: Also as far as overall contract size goes - 48 million is for sure within range - think about it. Edited February 7, 2022 by IBatch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted February 7, 2022 Share Posted February 7, 2022 27 minutes ago, JamesB said: I pretty much agree. Lammy and Highmore have been pretty good as defensively-oriented bottom 6 players. And both guys are getting paid approximately the league minimum and both are RFAs. So I think they do have positive value for the Canucks. But I still think their trade value is low. Forwards scoring at a 4th line level (as they are) rarely go for anything of value at TDL. I think there is no way any team is giving up a second or even a third round pick for either guy. They could be sweeteners in a bigger deal or they could be traded in a minor "hockey trade". But I don't see either guy generating a significant asset in return. I agree that they could provide useful depth for the Canucks in the future. Exactly. So keep them. Second rounders get a few games mostly, and half don't work out. Yet here we are with a fourth line that works and doesn't cost us 10 million dollars like the JB era. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted February 7, 2022 Share Posted February 7, 2022 1 hour ago, aGENT said: The other reason would be if he has no plans to extend for anything resembling a reasonable $1.5-$2m deal. Heck if Motte can go get himself a Dickinson deal power to him - and think he could if he played even 80% of his games which he doesn't. Really like the guy but wouldn't be that upset if we traded him either. Miller and Schenn and Motte are for sure the low hanging fruit this year. Said the same with Pearson last season never happened... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kloubek Posted February 7, 2022 Share Posted February 7, 2022 20 hours ago, Angry Goose said: Poolman would have some value, given hes a RH shot and could be of value to a rebuilding team that needs some stability in the back end. Maybe a B level prospect, or 3rd round pick. I dunno. Not sure about that. He's a bottom pairing D-man without any standout skills, and on a somewhat overpaid contract for another 3 (?) years. If we moved him without getting anything back, I'd be ok with that. I think Schenn is a far more impactful player - even if he too is bottom pairing, at least he makes under a million. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.I.A.H.N Posted February 7, 2022 Share Posted February 7, 2022 So, if we are going to take a step backwards..............then in for a penny, in for a pound! But you can't sell the whole farm! My list is this.............at least today! LOL 1. Miller at 50%..........Miller at 2.6 Million for a year and a half has huge value..........most definitely the least he gets is a A prospect, and a 1st.....probably more 2. Halak......................IMO, he gets a late 2nd. His bonus will have been paid, and his play and stats are solid, as insurance, he is the best goalie out there 3. Motte......................Well, I think Motte has a great name around the league, and has proven his ability..............he will get a late 2nd 4. Chaisson................A team trades for him because he is a guaranteed commodity, a veteran, who can sit and come in and give consistancy............a 4th I like Pearson's honest game, he plays heavy on the boards, and no one has forced him off of Horvat's line. Until that time comes, he is here. Pearson's game is not flashy, but his consistency should be noted. Total team player, never ever creates drama. He can play 3 rd line if asked. does not get the credit he deserves. Although Poolman is a dime a dozen type player. He is playing pretty good for what he is. He is a plus 3. That is pretty dependable. His draw back this year is his contract size, but if he plays as well as he has (3rd pairing) next year, he would have some value. Hamonic, is a waste of space, and it befuddles me, why Benning signed him again, knowing his views on Covid. Plus his injury history! IMO, he has no trade value, and would cost us asset to get rid of him. He has been extremely disappointing to me. I keep Boeser because of his age, for now. IMO, he gets 6.75 to 7.00 with JR at the negotiating table. (Yes, I know he will not be doing it, but he driving the boat!) Garland is a keeper, especially right now. He plays a big game, and his cap hit is awesome, in the same way as Miller's is. I am not sure Garland is worth a 9th OA pick, but he plays a full 60 minutes at a pretty high level. His contract is a beauty! Anyways, there is my 4...............for what it is worth! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustABandwagoner Posted February 7, 2022 Share Posted February 7, 2022 5 hours ago, VancouverHabitant said: Important to keep the draft class in mind. There are a few 2022 draft eligible players outscoring Dylan Guenther in the WHL at the moment. We will see how he pans out, but last year's draft was generally considered to be a weak one. 27 goals in 36 games is pretty good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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