Liberal Dissension

[24K PureCool]

What I would prefer is to scrap this whole idea of regional or population based idea of representation. We assume that everyone know enough about every subject to make these decisions while the simple fact is our world is now too complex for anyone to have a good grasp on everything hence how effective mis-information is to political expediency.

 

I would like it to be changed to representatives by sectors. Have a block of representatives from each sector voted by people in said sector. This way we have experts in each field that can make decisions based on professional expertise voted in by people that are experts themselves. So what we would have is engineers and scientist voting for fellow scientist or engineers into the block of technology representatives and healthcare workers voting in doctors and nurses to implement healthcare policies and so on. 

 

This will help reduce party politics, geographical bickering, and implementation of dubious policies for political expediency. May also get rid of career politicians which is a nice bonus. 

 

I know this ain't ever gonna be implemented but I think if this pandemic had taught us nothing else is that we need people in power that actually know what they are talking about when it comes to their field rather than lawyers trying or political scientist majors trying to dictate health and environmental policies. 

[Industrious1]

1 minute ago, 24K PureCool said:

What I would prefer is to scrap this whole idea of regional or population based idea of representation. We assume that everyone know enough about every subject to make these decisions while the simple fact is our world is now too complex for anyone to have a good grasp on everything hence how effective mis-information is to political expediency.

 

I would like it to be changed to representatives by sectors. Have a block of representatives from each sector voted by people in said sector. This way we have experts in each field that can make decisions based on professional expertise voted in by people that are experts themselves. So what we would have is engineers and scientist voting for fellow scientist or engineers into the block of technology representatives and healthcare workers voting in doctors and nurses to implement healthcare policies and so on. 

 

This will help reduce party politics, geographical bickering, and implementation of dubious policies for political expediency. May also get rid of career politicians which is a nice bonus. 

 

I know this ain't ever gonna be implemented but I think if this pandemic had taught us nothing else is that we need people in power that actually know what they are talking about when it comes to their field rather than lawyers trying or political scientist majors trying to dictate health and environmental policies. 

Like an actual meritocracy.  

 

It would certainly create an efficient society, but I could see politicians of every party resisting a system like this every step of the way....so naturally it is probably one of the better fits 

[24K PureCool]

52 minutes ago, 6of1_halfdozenofother said:

Like how it is in HK with their functional constituencies?  Thanks but no thanks.  It never worked for them.

Well HK allows corporation to vote which is not what I was suggesting. Voter under what I envision still only get one vote but their vote goes to a representative in their area of expertise. If multiple expertise then the voter get to choose which block they would like to vote in. 

 

Still one person one vote, just splitting the representatives differently.

 

HK's failure is due to corporations getting to vote and one person can vote in multiple constituencies. 

[NewbieCanuckFan]

...

Edited February 9, 2022 by NewbieCanuckFan

[24K PureCool]

15 minutes ago, 6of1_halfdozenofother said:

 

Forgot to mention that the system you propose is predicated on every citizen has a "sector" they belong to; however, there will be those who will become disenfranchised by such an arrangement, due to not "belonging" to any sector.  That's probably even worse than those with multiple votes that can be cast in an election.

Nah, we can have a culture sector to put everyone else in. Doesn't have to be professional based sectors. 

[Bure_Pavel]

1 hour ago, 24K PureCool said:

What I would prefer is to scrap this whole idea of regional or population based idea of representation. We assume that everyone know enough about every subject to make these decisions while the simple fact is our world is now too complex for anyone to have a good grasp on everything hence how effective mis-information is to political expediency.

 

I would like it to be changed to representatives by sectors. Have a block of representatives from each sector voted by people in said sector. This way we have experts in each field that can make decisions based on professional expertise voted in by people that are experts themselves. So what we would have is engineers and scientist voting for fellow scientist or engineers into the block of technology representatives and healthcare workers voting in doctors and nurses to implement healthcare policies and so on. 

 

This will help reduce party politics, geographical bickering, and implementation of dubious policies for political expediency. May also get rid of career politicians which is a nice bonus. 

 

I know this ain't ever gonna be implemented but I think if this pandemic had taught us nothing else is that we need people in power that actually know what they are talking about when it comes to their field rather than lawyers trying or political scientist majors trying to dictate health and environmental policies. 

Along the same lines, I think to qualify to run for PM of Canada, there should be a minimum education requirement such as a masters degree is Economics or Law. In today's age it is all just a popularity contest in the States and Canada, so we are seeing teachers, TV personalities, and musicians run for office.   

 

an example below from Wikipedia

 

Justin Trudeau's education:

 

Trudeau has a bachelor of arts degree in literature from McGill University and a bachelor of education degree from the University of British Columbia. In his first year at McGill, Trudeau became acquainted with his future principal secretary, Gerald Butts, through their mutual friend, Jonathan Ablett.^[64] Butts invited Trudeau to join the McGill Debating Union.^[65] They bonded while driving back to Montreal after a debate tournament at Princeton University,^[64] in which the Princeton team included Ted Cruz, who would go on to be elected a U.S. senator for Texas in 2013 and be candidate for the U.S. Republican Party's presidential nomination in 2016.^[66] After graduation, Trudeau stayed in Vancouver where he became a substitute teacher at local schools such as Killarney Secondary and worked permanently as a French and math teacher at the private West Point Grey Academy. He became a roommate at the Douglas Lodge^[67] with fellow West Point Grey Academy faculty member and friend Christopher Ingvaldson.^[64][68] From 2002 to 2004, he studied engineering at the École Polytechnique de Montréal, affiliated with Université de Montréal.^[69] He started a master's degree in environmental geography at McGill but withdrew from the program to seek public office.^[70]

In August 2000, Justin Trudeau attended the Kokanee Summit in Creston, British Columbia, to raise funds in honour of his brother Michel Trudeau and other avalanche victims. After the event, an unsigned editorial in the Creston Valley Advance (a local newspaper) accused Trudeau of having groped an unnamed female reporter while at the music festival. The editorial stated Trudeau provided a "day-late" apology to the reporter, saying, "If I had known you were reporting for a national paper, I never would have been so forward".^[71][72] In 2018, Trudeau was questioned about the groping incident but said he did not remember any negative incidents from that time. His apology and later statement about the event have been described as hypocritical, while responses to the story have been described as a witch hunt or non-story.^[73]

 

 

Pierre Trudeau's education: 

 

From the age of six until twelve, Trudeau attended the primary school, Académie Querbes, in Outremont, where he became immersed in the Catholic religion. The school, which was for both English and French Catholics, was an exclusive school with very small classes and he excelled in mathematics and religion.^[14] From his earliest years, Trudeau was fluently bilingual, which would later prove to be a "big asset for a politician in bilingual Canada."^[15] As a teenager, he attended the Jesuit French-language Collège Jean-de-Brébeuf, a prestigious secondary school known for educating elite francophone families in Quebec.^[16][17]

In his seventh and final academic year, 1939–1940, Trudeau focused on winning a Rhodes Scholarship. In his application he wrote that he had prepared for public office by studying public speaking and publishing many articles in Brébeuf. His letters of recommendations praised him highly. Father Boulin, who was the head of the college, said that during his seven years at the college (1933–1940), Trudeau had won a "hundred prizes and honourable mentions" and "performed with distinction in all fields".^[18] Trudeau graduated from Collège Jean-de-Brébeuf in 1940 at the age of twenty-one.^[19]

Trudeau did not win the Rhodes Scholarship. He consulted several people on his options, including Henri Bourassa, the economist Edmond Montpetit, and Father Robert Bernier, a Franco-Manitoban. Following their advice, he chose a career in politics and a degree in law at the Université de Montréal.^[20]

 

Trudeau continued his full-time studies in law at the Université de Montréal while in the COTC from 1940 until his graduation in 1943.

Following his graduation, Trudeau articled for a year and, in the fall of 1944, began his master's in political economy at Harvard University's Graduate School of Public Administration (now the John F. Kennedy School of Government). In his Memoir, he admitted that it was at Harvard's "super-informed environment", that he realized the "historic importance" of the war and that he had "missed one of the major events of the century in which [he] was living.^[21] Harvard had become a major intellectual centre as fascism in Europe led to the great intellectual migration to the United States.^[31]

Trudeau's Harvard dissertation was on the topic of communism and Christianity.^[32] At Harvard, a predominantly Protestant American university, Trudeau who was French Catholic and was for the first time living outside the province of Quebec, felt like an outsider. ^[33] As his sense of isolation deepened,^[34] in 1947, he decided to continue his work on his Harvard dissertation in Paris, France.^[35] He studied at the Institut d'Études Politiques de Paris. The Harvard dissertation remained unfinished when Trudeau briefly entered a doctoral program to study under the socialist economist Harold Laski at the London School of Economics (LSE).^[36] This cemented Trudeau's belief that Keynesian economics and social sciences were essential to the creation of the "good life" in a democratic society.^[37] Over a five-week period he attended many lectures and became a follower of personalism after being influenced most notably by Emmanuel Mounier.^[38] He also was influenced by Nikolai Berdyaev, particularly his book Slavery and Freedom.^[39] Max and Monique Nemni argue that Berdyaev's book influenced Trudeau's rejection of nationalism and separatism.^[39]

In the summer of 1948, Trudeau embarked on world travels to find a sense of purpose.^[40] At the age of twenty-eight, he travelled to Poland where he visited Auschwitz, then Czechoslovakia, Austria, Hungary, Yugoslavia, Bulgaria, and the Middle East, including Turkey, Jordan and southern Iraq.^[41] Although he was wealthy, Trudeau travelled with a back pack in "self-imposed hardship".^[15] He used his British passport instead of his Canadian passport in his travels through Pakistan, India, China, and Japan, often wearing local clothing to blend in.^[42] According to The Economist, when Trudeau returned to Canada in 1949 after an absence of five years, his mind was "seemingly broadened" from his studying at Harvard, the Institut d'Études Politiques, and the LSE and his travels. He was "appalled at the narrow nationalism in his native French-speaking Quebec, and the authoritarianism of the province's government.^[15]

Edited February 9, 2022 by Bure_Pavel

[King Heffy]

3 minutes ago, Bure_Pavel said:

Along the same lines, I think to qualify to run for PM of Canada, there should be a minimum education requirement such as a masters degree is Economics or Law. In today's age it is all just a popularity contest in the States and Canada, so we are seeing teachers, TV personalities, and musicians run for office.   

How about we also allow a bachelor's if it is accompanied by military service?

[Industrious1]

Common sense approaches by both Bure and Heff.  I could support either of them, and would at a referendum.  

 

Running a nation has never been a simple task and is just getting more complicated as people and technology evolve.  Having some standards applied to a candidate may reduce the amount of detritus government seems to collect in the modern era.  

[Bure_Pavel]

3 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

How about we also allow a bachelor's if it is accompanied by military service?

Depends on what the bachelor degree is for, Economics or Law coupled with reaching a certain rank in the military I'm fine with. An arts degree and a couple years in the reserves, then no. 

[24K PureCool]

1 hour ago, Bure_Pavel said:

Depends on what the bachelor degree is for, Economics or Law coupled with reaching a certain rank in the military I'm fine with. An arts degree and a couple years in the reserves, then no. 

Why shut out natural scientist and engineers? If you want people being objective those are prime candidates.

 

Political science should also be in there. 

[Warhippy]

1 hour ago, Bure_Pavel said:

Along the same lines, I think to qualify to run for PM of Canada, there should be a minimum education requirement such as a masters degree is Economics or Law. In today's age it is all just a popularity contest in the States and Canada, so we are seeing teachers, TV personalities, and musicians run for office.   

 

an example below from Wikipedia

 

Justin Trudeau's education:

 

Trudeau has a bachelor of arts degree in literature from McGill University and a bachelor of education degree from the University of British Columbia. In his first year at McGill, Trudeau became acquainted with his future principal secretary, Gerald Butts, through their mutual friend, Jonathan Ablett.^[64] Butts invited Trudeau to join the McGill Debating Union.^[65] They bonded while driving back to Montreal after a debate tournament at Princeton University,^[64] in which the Princeton team included Ted Cruz, who would go on to be elected a U.S. senator for Texas in 2013 and be candidate for the U.S. Republican Party's presidential nomination in 2016.^[66] After graduation, Trudeau stayed in Vancouver where he became a substitute teacher at local schools such as Killarney Secondary and worked permanently as a French and math teacher at the private West Point Grey Academy. He became a roommate at the Douglas Lodge^[67] with fellow West Point Grey Academy faculty member and friend Christopher Ingvaldson.^[64][68] From 2002 to 2004, he studied engineering at the École Polytechnique de Montréal, affiliated with Université de Montréal.^[69] He started a master's degree in environmental geography at McGill but withdrew from the program to seek public office.^[70]

In August 2000, Justin Trudeau attended the Kokanee Summit in Creston, British Columbia, to raise funds in honour of his brother Michel Trudeau and other avalanche victims. After the event, an unsigned editorial in the Creston Valley Advance (a local newspaper) accused Trudeau of having groped an unnamed female reporter while at the music festival. The editorial stated Trudeau provided a "day-late" apology to the reporter, saying, "If I had known you were reporting for a national paper, I never would have been so forward".^[71][72] In 2018, Trudeau was questioned about the groping incident but said he did not remember any negative incidents from that time. His apology and later statement about the event have been described as hypocritical, while responses to the story have been described as a witch hunt or non-story.^[73]

 

 

Pierre Trudeau's education: 

 

From the age of six until twelve, Trudeau attended the primary school, Académie Querbes, in Outremont, where he became immersed in the Catholic religion. The school, which was for both English and French Catholics, was an exclusive school with very small classes and he excelled in mathematics and religion.^[14] From his earliest years, Trudeau was fluently bilingual, which would later prove to be a "big asset for a politician in bilingual Canada."^[15] As a teenager, he attended the Jesuit French-language Collège Jean-de-Brébeuf, a prestigious secondary school known for educating elite francophone families in Quebec.^[16][17]

In his seventh and final academic year, 1939–1940, Trudeau focused on winning a Rhodes Scholarship. In his application he wrote that he had prepared for public office by studying public speaking and publishing many articles in Brébeuf. His letters of recommendations praised him highly. Father Boulin, who was the head of the college, said that during his seven years at the college (1933–1940), Trudeau had won a "hundred prizes and honourable mentions" and "performed with distinction in all fields".^[18] Trudeau graduated from Collège Jean-de-Brébeuf in 1940 at the age of twenty-one.^[19]

Trudeau did not win the Rhodes Scholarship. He consulted several people on his options, including Henri Bourassa, the economist Edmond Montpetit, and Father Robert Bernier, a Franco-Manitoban. Following their advice, he chose a career in politics and a degree in law at the Université de Montréal.^[20]

 

Trudeau continued his full-time studies in law at the Université de Montréal while in the COTC from 1940 until his graduation in 1943.

Following his graduation, Trudeau articled for a year and, in the fall of 1944, began his master's in political economy at Harvard University's Graduate School of Public Administration (now the John F. Kennedy School of Government). In his Memoir, he admitted that it was at Harvard's "super-informed environment", that he realized the "historic importance" of the war and that he had "missed one of the major events of the century in which [he] was living.^[21] Harvard had become a major intellectual centre as fascism in Europe led to the great intellectual migration to the United States.^[31]

Trudeau's Harvard dissertation was on the topic of communism and Christianity.^[32] At Harvard, a predominantly Protestant American university, Trudeau who was French Catholic and was for the first time living outside the province of Quebec, felt like an outsider. ^[33] As his sense of isolation deepened,^[34] in 1947, he decided to continue his work on his Harvard dissertation in Paris, France.^[35] He studied at the Institut d'Études Politiques de Paris. The Harvard dissertation remained unfinished when Trudeau briefly entered a doctoral program to study under the socialist economist Harold Laski at the London School of Economics (LSE).^[36] This cemented Trudeau's belief that Keynesian economics and social sciences were essential to the creation of the "good life" in a democratic society.^[37] Over a five-week period he attended many lectures and became a follower of personalism after being influenced most notably by Emmanuel Mounier.^[38] He also was influenced by Nikolai Berdyaev, particularly his book Slavery and Freedom.^[39] Max and Monique Nemni argue that Berdyaev's book influenced Trudeau's rejection of nationalism and separatism.^[39]

In the summer of 1948, Trudeau embarked on world travels to find a sense of purpose.^[40] At the age of twenty-eight, he travelled to Poland where he visited Auschwitz, then Czechoslovakia, Austria, Hungary, Yugoslavia, Bulgaria, and the Middle East, including Turkey, Jordan and southern Iraq.^[41] Although he was wealthy, Trudeau travelled with a back pack in "self-imposed hardship".^[15] He used his British passport instead of his Canadian passport in his travels through Pakistan, India, China, and Japan, often wearing local clothing to blend in.^[42] According to The Economist, when Trudeau returned to Canada in 1949 after an absence of five years, his mind was "seemingly broadened" from his studying at Harvard, the Institut d'Études Politiques, and the LSE and his travels. He was "appalled at the narrow nationalism in his native French-speaking Quebec, and the authoritarianism of the province's government.^[15]

So that would ensure Poiliverre and Scheer neverr had the chance to run

[NewbieCanuckFan]

2 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

So that would ensure Poiliverre and Scheer neverr had the chance to run

At least Poiliverre is Quebecois.  Scheer was American.  Loved it when Scheer questioned a past Governor Generals loyalties because they were dual citizens.  Jackazz himself didn't bother to state at the time he himself was a dual citizen.

[Warhippy]

1 minute ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

At least Poiliverre is Quebecois.  Scheer was American.  Loved it when Scheer questioned a past Governor Generals loyalties because they were dual citizens.  Jackazz himself didn't bother to state at the time he himself was a dual citizen.

I can't help but cringe knowing what our options are.

 

Poiliverre will be the next Con leader and he's worthless, like literally worthless.  Trudeau probably won't step down and that ensures our options are Trudeau again, or should he lose the most unappealing social conservative leader in Canadian history with less actual life and work experience than any sitting PM before him that is beholden to the pro life christian supporters.

 

Like seriously...how are these the best we can come up with?

 

[JoeyJoeJoeJr. Shabadoo]

2 hours ago, Bure_Pavel said:

Depends on what the bachelor degree is for, Economics or Law coupled with reaching a certain rank in the military I'm fine with. An arts degree and a couple years in the reserves, then no. 

D's get degrees. What an incredibly myopic stipulation to become PM.

[Bure_Pavel]

17 hours ago, Warhippy said:

So that would ensure Poiliverre and Scheer neverr had the chance to run

Yeah would result in better candidates throughout all parties. 

 

There are many jobs that require masters degrees in an applicable field for consideration, how if leader of the country not one of them. 

 

17 hours ago, 24K PureCool said:

Why shut out natural scientist and engineers? If you want people being objective those are prime candidates.

 

Political science should also be in there. 

Natural sciencists and Engineer don't really translate to running a country, they seem more like guys you hire as part of a support staff. A masters in political science would be fine I would think but should be the minimum. 

Edited February 10, 2022 by Bure_Pavel

[Gurn]

There needs to be no restrictions, other than age, put on  running and holding, any political office.

Every Canadian, of at least 18 yrs of age, should have a chance.

 

[Bure_Pavel]

16 hours ago, JoeyJoeJoeJr. Shabadoo said:

D's get degrees. What an incredibly myopic stipulation to become PM.

If masters degrees are so easy to get then it shouldn't be a problem. Soooo Myopic to use a education requirement for a job, whats next a resume?  

[Bure_Pavel]

2 minutes ago, gurn said:

There needs to be no restrictions, other than age, put on  running and holding, any political office.

Every Canadian, of at least 18 yrs of age, should have a chance.

 

Then people need to stop complaining when the Trumps of the world hold office, I could see Justin Bieber putting in a term or two.  

[NewbieCanuckFan]

Just now, Bure_Pavel said:

Then people need to stop complaining when the Trumps of the world hold office, I could see Justin Bieber putting in a term or two.  

Well Dotard does have a BS (oh how that acronym is so fitting) in Economics.  Likely bought & paid for by his dad.

[Gurn]

5 minutes ago, Bure_Pavel said:

Then people need to stop complaining when the Trumps of the world hold office, I could see Justin Bieber putting in a term or two.  

I'm not saying you have to vote for "unqualified " people; only that they must be able to run.

Not having better qualified people run is the fault of the parties, and to an extent ours.

In order to have the "moral authority" to hold political power, everyone should be allowed to participate.