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Moritz Seider (Discussion Proposal)


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15 hours ago, Alflives said:

Why n holy hell do we want “SLO-Mo?  

Just say no to these super slow guys.  

1. he plays a physical game, throws heavy hits on forwards

2. he is playing big minutes for Detroit

3. he is scoring goals in OT, goals I haven't seen from Quinn Hughes in OT.

4. given his size he is a great skater

5. one day he will be a norris trophy winner, something Quinn Hughes will never achieve in his career.

6. he is not slow, by no means. You are talking bull$&!# like so many times. clueless, absolutely clueless.

 

take your time to watch this vid, I hope you are not drunk when you watch this vid.

 

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15 hours ago, Alflives said:

Why n holy hell do we want “SLO-Mo?  

Just say no to these super slow guys.  

in two or three more season in the NHL he will dominate the game like Hedman in his prime. Mark my words. For me he 's the rookie of the year. I know there are more than 30 games left in this seaon, but no other rookie does even come close to his impact on the ice.

Seider is way better than any of the current Canucks Defenseman, because he is a complete D-Man.

 

He is skating faster than OEL, faster than Myers, faster than Hunt , faster than Burrroughs, faster and Poolman, faster than Hamonic. The only D-Man from the Canucks that can keep up with Seider's speed is maybe Hughes, but Hughes is way smaller and therefore maybe a little faster.

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it really sucks that detroit drafted him at 6th overall.

Read a couple of weeks before the draft in a german newspaper that the Red Wings are going to draft seider.

Steve Yzerman flew to Germany and scouted Seider several times. Stevie had also several talks with the headcoach and GM of the Mannheim Adler, Seider's team.

The first time Stevie watched Seider was in December 2018.

Stevie is a damn good GM.

I hoped that Canucks would get him at 10, but after Seider's impressive performance at the Worlds it was crystal clear that he won't make it to 10.

$&!# happens.

 

 

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28 minutes ago, Wolfgang Durst said:

it really sucks that detroit drafted him at 6th overall.

Read a couple of weeks before the draft in a german newspaper that the Red Wings are going to draft seider.

Steve Yzerman flew to Germany and scouted Seider several times. Stevie had also several talks with the headcoach and GM of the Mannheim Adler, Seider's team.

The first time Stevie watched Seider was in December 2018.

Stevie is a damn good GM.

I hoped that Canucks would get him at 10, but after Seider's impressive performance at the Worlds it was crystal clear that he won't make it to 10.

$&!# happens.

 

 

Yup, he just kept climbing and climbing up the rankings......................right past us

 

All Jim's useless wins at the end of the season!

 

 

Edited by J.I.A.H.N
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As the owner of this thread, let me say that there are 2 players that have similar potential in the top 10 this year, with Jiricek, and Nemec

 

If we end up at around 12, we will see neither..................

 

So, it will be interesting to see what JR does. If he sells Miller, then we dip, if we keep him, we keep rising.............

 

But here is the rub, as far as I am concerned. What and where are the kids that will make a difference in 2 years coming from, if we keep him? (Miller)

 

This is the question. Yes we we could get to the playoffs, but where are the kids that raise us to the top, other than the ones we have already.

 

The point of this post, is where do we get that Seider level guy? Do we buy him, or do we draft him? Buying is expensive, as you are seeing in this post.

 

So, the best move, if JR sees the need is to sell Miller and dip, which in it's self still may not be enough, because some of the other teams have a head start!

 

IMO, as much as I suggested it, selling the farm, doesn't do it, time wise.

 

Trading Miller, should get us a Schneider  or Barron level player, but more than that, it gets us other parts that will be able to step in during when our core is ready.

 

A late first is not the end all to be all by itself, but added to a 9/10 overall, may get you up into the 5/6 OA, where those young draft RHD are.....

 

If you want a Hughes/Seider/Maker/Hiskanen, then you go draft him, because the Fox scenario, just isn't something that comes along often

 

Would I trade that bundle that I suggested at the start of this thread? You bet your arse , I would! 

 

Is it enough........I don't think Yzerman would think so!

 

 

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

In response to my own question above I did find 2 instances:

 

In 2001 - Chara from NYI to OTT...Chara was 24 at the time and had not yet fully established himself as a top defender

In 1978 - Randy Carlyle from TML to PIT...Carlyle went on to win a Norris

 

As for the Shea Theodore thing, well, a lot of teams got fleeced by VGK, not just ANA. But I would put that as a black mark against their management at the time, poor asset management and poor scouting as to Theodore's future ability. And in the same light, I guess the jury is still out on Vince Dunn to the Krackheads...STL might regret that one down the road as well, but then again, he might just pan out to be solid top 4 guy...not necessarily a stud.

 

Top young stud d-men just don't get traded...until they're 30+

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On 2/8/2022 at 8:21 PM, J.I.A.H.N said:

Why do you think Seider is slow, Alf...................? :wacko: LOL

 

I am also deferring to JR thinking he is worth it.........don't you trust JR?

 

 

Have you not got the memo yet?  Any players not drafted by our team are almost certainly "busteroo's"...also Hedman and Alex Petrelangelo aren't exactly fast - neither is/was Weber.   Modest skaters.     Those guys are invaluable - to answer your question - yes id do that IF he's actually that good, but not the first - we'd need that pick. 

 

Have to ask what is EP and what is BB worth on their own recycled?   Quite a bit i'd think.    Feel EP value is almost or equal to a top RHD...

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13 hours ago, ABNuck said:

I'm racking my brain to try and think of a time when a future stud d-man was ever traded, for anything. Help me out CDC, when was the last time that a top d-man prospect was traded, and what was the return?

Stevens for one.   Shanny.   Pronger was too...

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13 hours ago, ABNuck said:

In response to my own question above I did find 2 instances:

 

In 2001 - Chara from NYI to OTT...Chara was 24 at the time and had not yet fully established himself as a top defender

In 1978 - Randy Carlyle from TML to PIT...Carlyle went on to win a Norris

 

As for the Shea Theodore thing, well, a lot of teams got fleeced by VGK, not just ANA. But I would put that as a black mark against their management at the time, poor asset management and poor scouting as to Theodore's future ability. And in the same light, I guess the jury is still out on Vince Dunn to the Krackheads...STL might regret that one down the road as well, but then again, he might just pan out to be solid top 4 guy...not necessarily a stud.

 

Top young stud d-men just don't get traded...until they're 30+

Scott Stevens, Chris Pronger...Seth Jones ... Subban (just won a Norris)...Seth Jones would be the most recent one given his draft slot and the age ... going back earlier Chris Chelios to CHI... There enough to say it does happen Zubov might be the best example ... he was traded twice, two years as a Ranger - including his rookie 94 season where he led his team in scoring, played the lockout shortened year and then to PIT, then to Dallas the following year - every year over or right at a PPG D.   So was traded twice his first 3 seasons...that would be like Makar already been traded twice.   Stevens was traded at 25 and was a Devil at 27...Bet Biestra would have a lot more to add as well.  Also Phanuef -know his career didn't go the way folks thought it would but early on he was a Norris contender - and only played 5 seasons with Calgary ... 25 i think at the time.  Was a big deal back then. 

 

And finally, our very own Dave Babych, was traded after going second overall at 24/25 to the Hartford Whalers.   Wasn't "tough enough" lol.  even though he scored at close to a PGP and today would be considered an incredible defensenman given his strength and penchant for big goals/offense.   Was back then too, just played on really bad teams.   Leagues "strongest man" - glad we got him in the end.   Solid top four vet for us. 

Edited by IBatch
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On 2/8/2022 at 9:19 PM, Junkyard Dog said:

I don't think Detroit will trade him. Only guy we could offer is Hughes and that's a no for us.

I'd absolutely consider that trade in fact would welcome it.   Detroit gets 5 more seasons of QHs at 7.85, we get the cap relief we desperately need and very possibly the better player.   Why wouldn't we consider this!!!?  

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20 minutes ago, IBatch said:

I'd absolutely consider that trade in fact would welcome it.   Detroit gets 5 more seasons of QHs at 7.85, we get the cap relief we desperately need and very possibly the better player.   Why wouldn't we consider this!!!?  

Seider is already playing hard minutes as a rookie, in one of the toughest divisions. Yeah, Hughes might the better offensive player, but Seider is having an outstanding rookie campaign. Possibly better than Hughes’ rookie season.

Edited by shiznak
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1 minute ago, shiznak said:

Seider is already playing hard minutes as a rookie, in one of the toughest divisions. Yeah, Hughes might the the better offensive player, but Seider is having an outstanding rookie campaign. Possibly better than Hughes’ rookie season.

No doubt.    I'd do this trade one for one. 

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2 hours ago, IBatch said:

I'd absolutely consider that trade in fact would welcome it.   Detroit gets 5 more seasons of QHs at 7.85, we get the cap relief we desperately need and very possibly the better player.   Why wouldn't we consider this!!!?  

Both players are already working well for both teams. I don't see why either team does it. DET has him on ELC anyway and he plays the right side which is more coveted. Makes no sense to trade him for a older player who's already signed to a big contract.  Hughes may be the most fair value we could offer but it doesn't mean it makes sense. Our problem isn't Hughes and DET's isn't Seider.

 

Simply put there's no sensible deal to be had.

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6 hours ago, IBatch said:

Why not trade QHs then?  Two years of cap relief is hard to quantify but must be worth something. 

The problem is if you trade Hughes or Demko for someone like Seider you fill one huge hole but then you create another huge hole in the lineup. 
 

Trading one superstar for another isn’t really going to move this team forward. 
 

At the end of the day the only way to fix this is to trade guys that don’t align with the long term plans of the team but still have good market value to another team. Miller and Boeser are those two guys.  If somebody wants to also take Pearson and Dickinson off our hands then that would speed up our retool even more. 

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