Pearson, Horvat, Boeser, Myers, The frustrating 4

[Johnny Torts]

If you are frustrated with Myers in the lineup, just wait until he's not...

[CanuckleHorse]

An idiot who didn’t take into account it was the second of a back to back GTFOH with that s#*t.

Edited February 12, 2022 by CanuckleHorse

[Odd.]

Add Dickinson

[Odd.]

On 2/12/2022 at 1:23 PM, CanuckleHorse said:

An idiot who didn’t take into account it was the second of a back to back GTFOH with that s#*t.

You’re delusional 

[luongianone]

6 hours ago, Odd. said:

You’re delusional 

These people are tripping. You're 100% right. Those 4 should be top of the list to go. Why is Bo so protected? He's already peaked, never scored more than 61 points in his career, never had a positive +/-, can't kill penalties, isn't shutting anyone down. He'sa 3C on a championship team, he can't be a 2C. He's not even a great leader IMO. Miller should stay, trade Bo and Brock first. Pray someone will take Myers contract. Dickinson, Pearson, Hamonic, Poolman all gotta go too. Doubt it's possible unfortunately. &^@# Benning.

[CRAZY_4_NAZZY]

On 2/11/2022 at 3:43 PM, CaNuCkSLoUiE23 said:

Horvat is a playoff performer. You don’t get rid of guys like that. 

Have to get to the playoffs first in order to show that off. 

 

He says he wants to win, yet his effort level hasnt nearly shown the desperation to win. 

[Timråfan]

10 hours ago, luongianone said:

These people are tripping. You're 100% right. Those 4 should be top of the list to go. Why is Bo so protected? He's already peaked, never scored more than 61 points in his career, never had a positive +/-, can't kill penalties, isn't shutting anyone down. He'sa 3C on a championship team, he can't be a 2C. He's not even a great leader IMO. Miller should stay, trade Bo and Brock first. Pray someone will take Myers contract. Dickinson, Pearson, Hamonic, Poolman all gotta go too. Doubt it's possible unfortunately. &^@# Benning.

What is Miller good at more than disrupting a team and get points for himself? 

Egotrippin much huh.... 

 

[iinatcc]

8 hours ago, CRAZY_4_NAZZY said:

Have to get to the playoffs first in order to show that off. 

 

He says he wants to win, yet his effort level hasnt nearly shown the desperation to win. 

He's saving it for the playoffs 

[TBoneous84]

Long time reader of the forum but first time poster.

 

When Jim Benning let Markstrom and Tanev go (even Stetcher to some degree) we lost our true emotional leaders. To make matters worse we then lost Edler, Roussel and Beagle which all were certainly past their best before dates but all brought emotion to the team and leadership. We have no one other than Miller, EP (recently) and Garland who play with emotion as forwards and none of our top players have shown leadership other than Miller. OEL does on occasion so does Myers on defence and Schenn does as well but on a good team he is your 7/8 defence men.

 

my opinion is we need to trade Horvat, Boeser, Pearson, and Motte (need cheaper replacement only reason) at the deadline (I believe you get a better return than the offseason. During the off-season, resign Miller and clear rest of the dead weight.

 

Unrelated but has to be said, the bubble season and playoffs were not a true reflection of this core/team. Think about how the team came together after what happened with Markstoms, Stetcher and Boesers fathers… that team would lay in front of a Webber slapper to the groin to win for each other. This team won’t throw a few gloved punch’s after a bad hit on their team mate.

 

On my phone, so I apologize in advance for any spelling or grammar.

 

 

[IBatch]

23 hours ago, TBoneous84 said:

Long time reader of the forum but first time poster.

 

When Jim Benning let Markstrom and Tanev go (even Stetcher to some degree) we lost our true emotional leaders. To make matters worse we then lost Edler, Roussel and Beagle which all were certainly past their best before dates but all brought emotion to the team and leadership. We have no one other than Miller, EP (recently) and Garland who play with emotion as forwards and none of our top players have shown leadership other than Miller. OEL does on occasion so does Myers on defence and Schenn does as well but on a good team he is your 7/8 defence men.

 

my opinion is we need to trade Horvat, Boeser, Pearson, and Motte (need cheaper replacement only reason) at the deadline (I believe you get a better return than the offseason. During the off-season, resign Miller and clear rest of the dead weight.

 

Unrelated but has to be said, the bubble season and playoffs were not a true reflection of this core/team. Think about how the team came together after what happened with Markstoms, Stetcher and Boesers fathers… that team would lay in front of a Webber slapper to the groin to win for each other. This team won’t throw a few gloved punch’s after a bad hit on their team mate.

 

On my phone, so I apologize in advance for any spelling or grammar.

 

 

Why would we trade Motte?   A late first isn't likely to get what he's doing for us right now.    And since he arrived.   And bet people as a second rounder as "yeah great trade!"...  Stetcher?   Why even bring him up.   Can't make a go of it with Detroit lol.   Sorry lost you there.   Markstrom vs Demko ... ED looming ... JB wins that one too.   Tanev yes - that was a bad mistake.    Think your overvaluing quite a lot about that Bubble team, but thanks at least for not bringing up Toffoli.   He wouldn't take a hit to make a play against Vegas - Brock did though - starting in MIN...food for thought.   Horvat was on pace to pass Bure's or match his record and blast by Linden.   The right players with the excepting of Tanev were kept.   And we all knew that the cap crunch was coming - which it did.    We should keep the angst towards LE mostly for that.   Beagle?  AR who really cares that much, their cap hits also cost us better players- they cashed out rather then chase a cup. 

 

Edit: Edler?  Sure would have been nice to keep him this year ... but have to look long term.  OEL is his replacement - and doesn't have cement shoes.   Edler - who knows maybe we can re-sign him next season for 2?  He's almost done. 

Edited February 22, 2022 by IBatch

[TBoneous84]

On 2/22/2022 at 9:23 AM, IBatch said:

Why would we trade Motte?   A late first isn't likely to get what he's doing for us right now.    And since he arrived.   And bet people as a second rounder as "yeah great trade!"...  Stetcher?   Why even bring him up.   Can't make a go of it with Detroit lol.   Sorry lost you there.   Markstrom vs Demko ... ED looming ... JB wins that one too.   Tanev yes - that was a bad mistake.    Think your overvaluing quite a lot about that Bubble team, but thanks at least for not bringing up Toffoli.   He wouldn't take a hit to make a play against Vegas - Brock did though - starting in MIN...food for thought.   Horvat was on pace to pass Bure's or match his record and blast by Linden.   The right players with the excepting of Tanev were kept.   And we all knew that the cap crunch was coming - which it did.    We should keep the angst towards LE mostly for that.   Beagle?  AR who really cares that much, their cap hits also cost us better players- they cashed out rather then chase a cup. 

 

Edit: Edler?  Sure would have been nice to keep him this year ... but have to look long term.  OEL is his replacement - and doesn't have cement shoes.   Edler - who knows maybe we can re-sign him next season for 2?  He's almost done. 

There is nothing wrong with what Motte has brought to the team but he is a replaceable player. In my opinion we need more size not just speed in our bottom six. We need players that can win board battles and retrieve pucks against some of the heavier teams and wear down their defence. So you trade him to get something as I do not think we will resign him the off-season. 
 

I do not feel like I am over valuing the bubble team. My point is the team dynamic and how the unfortunate circumstances with Stetchers, Markstoms and Boesers fathers would have likely created a team bond that is hard to replicate during normal circumstances (you could just see how close that team was based on how they battled in the bubble). We then proceeded to let two of those players go (as the next season more players from that team the next off-season) and it is no surprise the team “regressed”. It was not a true indication of where the core players were in their development. Not that I am advocating for Stetcher to be on the team.

 

We need players though that will drag the team into the fight consistently each night and the players I listed (to be traded) are not those types of players consistently which does not make them bad players. I just do not believe having those types of players win you championships especially in your top six.

 

I am not saying the decisions that were made will not be in the long term best interest of the team (I agreed with all the decisions at the time) but I believe it highlights what the team is missing and drastic changes to the team are needed to bring some of what was lost with those types of players (not those specific players). It cannot just be bottom six players though we need that in our top six as well to have a balanced team. A team that is not easy to play against.

 

I am concerned if we trade JT we are losing more than just his points because of everything else he brings to the table (good and bad). I honestly cannot say the same for Boeser and Horvat even though I like them as players. I believe they can get the type of assets we would need to get a more balanced team around the core of Pettersson, Hughes and Demko.

 

Anyways, looking forward to any debate regarding the above. Building high performing teams are hard but you need a variety of skill sets and personalities… can not have too many of the same types of players / personalities just as in the boardroom which is why I am excited for the future of the team with the changes made in management.

Edited February 25, 2022 by TBoneous84

[IBatch]

6 hours ago, TBoneous84 said:

There is nothing wrong with what Motte has brought to the team but he is a replaceable player. In my opinion we need more size not just speed in our bottom six. We need players that can win board battles and retrieve pucks against some of the heavier teams and wear down their defence. So you trade him to get something as I do not think we will resign him the off-season. 
 

I do not feel like I am over valuing the bubble team. My point is the team dynamic and how the unfortunate circumstances with Stetchers, Markstoms and Boesers fathers would have likely created a team bond that is hard to replicate during normal circumstances (you could just see how close that team was based on how they battled in the bubble). We then proceeded to let two of those players go (as the next season more players from that team the next off-season) and it is no surprise the team “regressed”. It was not a true indication of where the core players were in their development. Not that I am advocating for Stetcher to be on the team.

 

We need players though that will drag the team into the fight consistently each night and the players I listed (to be traded) are not those types of players consistently which does not make them bad players. I just do not believe having those types of players win you championships especially in your top six.

 

I am not saying the decisions that were made will not be in the long term best interest of the team (I agreed with all the decisions at the time) but I believe it highlights what the team is missing and drastic changes to the team are needed to bring some of what was lost with those types of players (not those specific players). It cannot just be bottom six players though we need that in our top six as well to have a balanced team. A team that is not easy to play against.

 

I am concerned if we trade JT we are losing more than just his points because of everything else he brings to the table (good and bad). I honestly cannot say the same for Boeser and Horvat even though I like them as players. I believe they can get the type of assets we would need to get a more balanced team around the core of Pettersson, Hughes and Demko.

 

Anyways, looking forward to any debate regarding the above. Building high performing teams are hard but you need a variety of skill sets and personalities… can not have too many of the same types of players / personalities just as in the boardroom which is why I am excited for the future of the team with the changes made in management.

That is a solid post bones - the reality is JB cap crunch and early days with those wonder kids had a price.    Rebuild contracts to bottom six guys and of course LE and Luongo was a massive pile of cap space.   Markstrom vs Demko with the ED looming, JB made the correct choice.   If Markstrom goes down, so does CAL.    Tanev sucked.   He made a mistake not offering the same deal for him to stay.     Again glad you didn't mention TT, he was a rental, price paid in full.   I'm glad we have new ownership, JB time was done.     Miller at 5.25 is huge for us right now .... I'd be happy to re-sign him, as long as it's something like 8 x 8.    Next years play will somewhat determine that (if he's still on our team).... right now his value is sky high to a good team or a contender.   Or a team that's missing one piece in the middle of the NHL pack which could offer something just too hard to say no too.    He's as valuable as a RHD.   And tough to find.    We have to accept that players move on once free agents - both Markstrom and Tanev were offered deals that worked for the team.   JB was also responsible for the mess aside from covid and Luongo - without covid maybe ... but he's gone now.   What we have now is a core that is 100% not claused up.    IF and when a trade comes in we have to be ready for it even if it's one of our favourite guys.   On Motte.   What exactly do you think he's going to get us?  A second rounder from a contender?  Their is tiny odds that player will become a Motte.   A late first ... that is tempting i suppose but even then...50/50 if he becomes a Motte and not for 2-3 years.    Motte has better value as a keeper most likely.   We finally have our fourth line grooving - and well they are playing third line minutes a lot of nights.  So no thanks unless the ask is something else - to me that starts as a first rounder.  

 

 Same thing with Myers.   He's played himself into trade conversations - but who the heck is going to replace him?   There isn't one RHD expected to come up the next two years (UFA's)  that comes close to offering what he does (playing against the best in the world night in night out - some truculence especially in the playoffs etc)....we are better off keeping them both for now. 

Edited February 25, 2022 by IBatch

[Baggins]

On 2/21/2022 at 2:02 AM, Timråfan said:

What is Miller good at more than disrupting a team and get points for himself? 

Egotrippin much huh.... 

 

What good is Miller? The Canucks have played 16 forwards so far this season....

 

1st among all forwards in both goals and assists (a 20 pt lead)

1st among all forwards in PP points (10 pt lead)

1st among forwards in game winning goals (5)

The only player with OT goals (3)

Tied 2nd among all forwards in shootout goals

3rd among all forwards in hits per 60 minutes

2nd among all forwards in blocked shots per 60 minutes

2nd among all centers at faceoffs

1st among all forwards in PK time per game

Has fought opponents in defense of teammates

Says it like it is in interviews rather than those standard PR script answers

 

Who wants "that guy" on their team? 

 

[Timråfan]

Just now, Baggins said:

What good is Miller? The Canucks have played 16 forwards so far this season....

 

1st among all forwards in both goals and assists (a 20 pt lead)

1st among all forwards in PP points (10 pt lead)

1st among forwards in game winning goals (5)

The only player with OT goals (3)

Tied 2nd among all forwards in shootout goals

3rd among all forwards in hits per 60 minutes

2nd among all forwards in blocked shots per 60 minutes

2nd among all centers at faceoffs

1st among all forwards in PK time per game

Has fought opponents in defense of teammates

Says it like it is in interviews rather than those standard PR script answers

 

Who wants "that guy" on their team? 

 

It was a bit over the top. 
But I believe he is one reason the team tilted towards him instead of a more equal team. 
I’ve talked about the one sided attack that Miller was part of. 

[Baggins]

5 minutes ago, Timråfan said:

It was a bit over the top. 
But I believe he is one reason the team tilted towards him instead of a more equal team. 
I’ve talked about the one sided attack that Miller was part of. 

I missed it. Feel free to enlighten me. To me he's a real team guy, Hits, blocks shots, and will stand up for teammates. Plus since he's been here has a commanding lead over Pettersson, Boeser, and Horvat in assists. To me he's anything but selfish. 

 

[Timråfan]

4 minutes ago, Baggins said:

I missed it. Feel free to enlighten me. To me he's a real team guy, Hits, blocks shots, and will stand up for teammates. Plus since he's been here has a commanding lead over Pettersson, Boeser, and Horvat in assists. To me he's anything but selfish. 

 

Well, before him it revolved around Petey. Petey managed to get a lot of points with players almost none here think has any value, Goldobin, Loui etc…
When Miller came he shifted the dynamics to the left side where Hughes and Boeser were. 
PP with Hughes, Boeser and Miller on left side. Petey on the right side all stale and Horvat in front of goalie. 
I wouldn’t say a thing if the top players were dynamic all the time shifting positions back then. 
Now it’s better but Petey is probably twice the player Miller is and that will show in a couple if years if you don’t want to compare their earlier years. The years that shows Petey is head, shoulder and waist above Miller. 
 

[Baggins]

1 hour ago, Timråfan said:

Well, before him it revolved around Petey. Petey managed to get a lot of points with players almost none here think has any value, Goldobin, Loui etc…
When Miller came he shifted the dynamics to the left side where Hughes and Boeser were. 
PP with Hughes, Boeser and Miller on left side. Petey on the right side all stale and Horvat in front of goalie. 
I wouldn’t say a thing if the top players were dynamic all the time shifting positions back then. 
Now it’s better but Petey is probably twice the player Miller is and that will show in a couple if years if you don’t want to compare their earlier years. The years that shows Petey is head, shoulder and waist above Miller. 
 

Wouldn't that be a coaching call, who plays where on the PP, rather than an individual players call? Plus whoever is low, behind the goal line, moves from one side of the net to the other depending on which side the puck is at. Sometimes it's Boeser low and somethimes it Miller. I think you're looking for reasons to justify disliking, or moving, Miller. Or perhaps your' just trying to defend Petey's lack of production early in the season. Looking at the assist totals since Miller came it appears he's anything but selfish. If anything you should put the blame on Hughes. Being a left side d-man he tends towards the left side on the PP. If Hughes has the puck on the left side low player will be on the left side. If Hughes is on the right side the down low with be on the right side. Hughes is the QB of the PP, not Miller, and he has the most control over which side the puck is on. It would also help if it didn't take Hughes three tries to get the puck in the sweet spot for Petey. When it isn't in the sweet spot Petey has to get control and usually puts it back to Hughes. More often than not Hughes heads back to the left side again.

 

Petey "can be" as good, or better, than Miller. But he hasn't grown into that yet and saying he's twice the player is just plain exaggeration at this point. His wrist injury certainly didn't help in moving towards the player he can be either. In the end I think your Swedish roots are showing.

[Timråfan]

1 hour ago, Baggins said:

Wouldn't that be a coaching call, who plays where on the PP, rather than an individual players call? Plus whoever is low, behind the goal line, moves from one side of the net to the other depending on which side the puck is at. Sometimes it's Boeser low and somethimes it Miller. I think you're looking for reasons to justify disliking, or moving, Miller. Or perhaps your' just trying to defend Petey's lack of production early in the season. Looking at the assist totals since Miller came it appears he's anything but selfish. If anything you should put the blame on Hughes. Being a left side d-man he tends towards the left side on the PP. If Hughes has the puck on the left side low player will be on the left side. If Hughes is on the right side the down low with be on the right side. Hughes is the QB of the PP, not Miller, and he has the most control over which side the puck is on. It would also help if it didn't take Hughes three tries to get the puck in the sweet spot for Petey. When it isn't in the sweet spot Petey has to get control and usually puts it back to Hughes. More often than not Hughes heads back to the left side again.

 

Petey "can be" as good, or better, than Miller. But he hasn't grown into that yet and saying he's twice the player is just plain exaggeration at this point. His wrist injury certainly didn't help in moving towards the player he can be either. In the end I think your Swedish roots are showing.

If it was my swedish roots talking why do I think Hughes is amasing then?

Objectivity is a biatch…

Edited February 27, 2022 by Timråfan

[Baggins]

2 hours ago, Timråfan said:

If it was my swedish roots talking why do I think Hughes is amasing then?

Objectivity is a biatch…

Because you're fan fan of his Petey's struggles can't possibly be his fault. Objectivity hasn't been your strong suit here. 

[Timråfan]

1 hour ago, Baggins said:

Because you're fan fan of his Petey's struggles can't possibly be his fault. Objectivity hasn't been your strong suit here. 

Nah, Petey has fallen so easy etc and has been a lightweight in this league. 
But Miller has only done a few goals similar to Peteys highlights and Petey is how much younger than Miller? 
Theres a reason Petey is called an Alien and Miller just recently, backed up by some really good players like Hughes and Petey, reached fame and soon fortune.