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[Discussion] Examining how good this team actually is

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3 hours ago, khay said:

Hamonic can be that stay home defenceman that lets OEL go on the offensive and I bet we will see OEL score more.

 

Problem is this year I trust Myers wayyyyyy more defensively than Hamonic.  Hamonic has been a replacement level D this year and not very good at defense.

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Like JR said, our goalie covers up a lot of our problems.

 

We have some good pieces but need to bring in more cap value and build up the prospect pipeline and increase the quality of depth.

 

Our goal should be to build a contender, not just be "good" and make the playoffs.

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Your #1 is already BS. It wasn't because of Pettersson's "wrist", he was making boneheaded plays, slow reaction time, falling down under pressure, not moving his legs. He was like that last season too, just wasn't as apparent and he had points so nobody noticed. 

 

He is playing a lot better now, hope it keeps up. 

 

Im opposed to making sellers trade like trading Miller. Ok with hockey trades like Boeser for a RHD + pick. Losses like vs NJ are not occasional, please. 

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6 hours ago, VegasCanuck said:

So, I'm not sure how many major trades that the Canucks will do coming into the deadline, but they have stated that they want to add guys from free agency from College etc, and at the moment, we have 47 out of 50 contract slots used.

 

Guys that I think Canucks will look to dump for picks, just to clear the contract spot for free agents are:

 

Brad Hunt

Madison Bowey

Luke Schenn

Alex Chiasson

 

I haven't mentioned anyone on the farm as I think there are some guys down there, who they view as capable of filling some spots if needed.

 

I think it's possible that Motte could be moved if his contract demands are too high, as they might see the option to just call up Lockwood as a viable replacement.

Y would you dump schenn?  Hes been excellent.   No one on our system can replace him.

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13 hours ago, VegasCanuck said:

Remember on Boeser, just because his QO is over 7 million, doesn't mean that we couldn't sign him to a 6 or 8 year extension at 6 - 6.5 million. Few players of his stature, accept a 1 year QO. They want stability of a long term deal.

 

We all know that he's better than his numbers reflect right now, I would think lock him up long term for around 6 million per, personally.

 

QO's are generally only accepted by guys coming off their ELC, who want a year to prove that they deserve a much higher number.

 

In my mind Boeser should get TJ Oshie numbers on his next contract. They are very comparable to me in the roles they play.

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Some people ( myself included at first ) want to make a move for the sake of making one. It’s the shiny new toy with New management in place and you can’t wait to get home before you rip open the box in excitement. ( yes I have a 4 year old boy ) It’s not the way to do it though and other than moving a meh piece or two all we should be focused on is finding a way to clear up all the bonus money this year. 
The draft is where you do the big moves, that’s where you have more time to assemble a list of targeted players who you want playing for the Canucks. Draft picks are usually more available as teams know where they are picking so there is less risk involved between both teams. Prospects get drafted and teams miss out on “their guy” and these are the type of opportunities we need to be ready to pounce on. We are the ones with the assets teams want and are trying to get, not the other way around so theoretically, we should be in the driver seat. 
 

Only one star player we should potentially move is JT Miller and that’s due to his age, contract and no clue if he will even resign. 
You need to maximize the value here as everyone aside from Hughes and Demko is having a down year, why sell low? If you don’t get the value you think you deserve you’ll still have two more major opportunities to trade him after this year so it’s not the end of the world. ( draft/next deadline )
 

You always see the patient GM’s wait and win the trade due to some other team panicking to save his job etc ( sound familiar ). I for one want to be on the side of the winning team for once, I also want to have confidence in my new management team. 

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4 hours ago, MrCanuck94 said:

Like JR said, our goalie covers up a lot of our problems.

 

We have some good pieces but need to bring in more cap value and build up the prospect pipeline and increase the quality of depth.

 

Our goal should be to build a contender, not just be "good" and make the playoffs.

As the guys in Sportsnet said. Motte is a good player but not the one Canucks should be extending considering where they are at the moment. 

 

What he brings is more suited for teams that are ready for a deep playoff run which the Canucks aren't. 

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2 hours ago, EddieVedder said:

Y would you dump schenn?  Hes been excellent.   No one on our system can replace him.

I agree. Schenn if anything has been a suprise that hes playing pretty well. If he is ever going to be traded, I would not be taking anything less than a 1st rounder. Its overpayment, but fact is, like you mentioned, no one in the farm can replace him. Theres also no UFA thats going to come here, play top 4 minutes, and get paid under 1 million. Schenn is found money and he's under contract for another season.

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4 hours ago, MrCanuck94 said:

Like JR said, our goalie covers up a lot of our problems.

 

We have some good pieces but need to bring in more cap value and build up the prospect pipeline and increase the quality of depth.

 

Our goal should be to build a contender, not just be "good" and make the playoffs.

To some extent i agree, but considering the last 7 seasons of trash we've seen, I don't think anybody would be complaining if we were even just a legit playoff team for the next few seasons. Florida coming to this season weren't expected to be stanley cup contenders, and here they are now one of the top teams in the league

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I think it's one of those things that comes down to do we want to be a team that can make the playoffs or do we want to be a team that can dominate them? If it's the later then we need to make moves.  It might make us worse in the short term but in the long term it should pay off.  We no longer have any prospects that we know of that are going to be difference makers and we are a Cap team so free agents are out of the question.  That really only leaves the trade route to improve the team.  1 or 2 really smart trades could be all we need to turn this team into something special, of course trades don't always work out the way you hope.

 

I'm hoping this management team wont be happy just being a playoff team and is willing to take the risks needed to turn us into a contender.

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We are the best worst team in the league. Team is filled with flaws top to bottom, Horribly inconsistent play on a period to period basis. Either the players move and the puck doesn't or the puck moves and the players don't on the PP. We had one of the worst coaching staffs of all time, Probably one of the lowest payrolls not including players. We were one of the worst teams with the worst record for 2 months. Historically near the worst PK of all time....

Yet here we are, All the flaws and many many more... but right in the thick of things in a very competitive west this year. It's actually kind of crazy. 
Now we have one of the best coaches, Hall of fame president, LOADED front office.

If we want to be serious about competing for cup in a few years, We need to be sellers at the TDL. If we can add a quality young guy to replace said players along with picks, I think we can gain assets, Get younger and faster AND remain on this level of play.

It's a shame hes already 29 with a massive deal, Because i'd be looking at something like horvat for sean couturier. High end offensive with some really solid D in EP, Followed by High end defense with some really solid offense. A selke caliber top 2 center is one thing we will need for cup runs.
( Unlike most this fanbase, I understand you need to give up value to get value, Poolman / Pears / Dicky and a 3rd isn't going to get you anything of value lol )

Will be an exciting end to the year non the less!

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I see a team with an all star goalie that is pretty average everywhere else, is built for regular season and somehow lacks size, speed and toughness all at the same time. 
Oh yeah and capped out with significant dead space on the cap 

The forward lines are deeper than they have been in previous years under Benning, which is scant praise, but are really, really small in the top 6/9.  Yes, some of the smaller players play above their size but when you 5’6”-5’8” that isn’t saying much and when you add a beanpole like Pettey there isn’t a hit coming that is going to hurt much especially since we lack the speed to really get the forecheck going anyway. 
There is also a general lack of balance. Adding Podz as an effective top 9 power forward has helped but need another couple like that. Hogz physical game has faded out since he hit a slump. 
The emergence of Lammiko has really helped in bringing some better balance to the forward lines. 
D looks a lot better with Hamonic in. Myers has been better this year but like JTM will always have some tragic brain farts. They do need the room to do that to be creative so these will happen.  JTM’s production more than buffers the brain farts though.  Myer’s not as much, but as a frequent Myers critic, I think he has been good this year.

Q has been great and can’t really ask much more other than keep working on your shot Q. 
I think JR has it right, we need size, speed, depth an better balance. I said last year our highest priority if spending assets should be getting Quinn a high end long term partner and JB did everything but that. So again, I think first priority is getting Quinn a long term partner and adding some speed, size and forechecking presence. 

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Well, Coach Bruce just said, 'we are nowhere near as good as the Leafs'. That statement probably sums it up quite well. However, if the question here is: can the Canucks make the playoffs and go far, I believe the answer is that it's possible. Just take a look at what the Habs did last year on the strength of a resurgent Carey Price. I would argue that Demko can do those types of performances as well especially given that he has been facing and stopping a lot of quality shots this year. That said, there are some pretty strong teams out West so you'll need to have people have their peak performances: JT Miller right now, Boeser of last year, playoffs Bo, 2nd-year Petey, I'll take OEL of 2-3 years ago, Hughes of right now, Garland of last year, etc. 

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If it's just about clearing cap space, I hope they can trade Hamonic and Poolman before trading Myers. 

 

I believe Boeser, Motte and Halak will also be traded. Maybe Lockwood can fill in Motte's spot eventually? (next season)

 

 

 

 

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On 3/4/2022 at 1:44 PM, RU SERIOUS said:

I'm generally on board with your thought process - BUT - I strongly suspect Boeser is traded as he is a one-dimensional player (a shooter.) that we will likely not afford to keep and don't be surprised if Horvat is gone too - if the management is truly intent on changing the culture of this team from a passive-agressive, neutered Euro/Swede finesse style Sedin-Like led team, to a more rugged team of fast skaters of size, grit and comsistant play.  That would not susprise me one bit and I'm almost expecting it at this point.   (Besides, we all know who the true leader on this team is!)

 

Ditto for some of our softer and less talented & consistant players like Hoglander, Pearson, Hunt, Chiasson, Hamonic to name a few.   All of the above and possibly some of our higher priced defenceman like Myers & OEL (to name a few) might be offloaded to free up cap space and bring in younger, hungrier D's that can actually score on occassion, as we essentially have close to "ZERO" output (except for QH) from our back end and will never go far without that.

This all sounds great in theory - but even the mighty Bruce can't deal with that much roster change without a couple seasons.   The only way out is a lopsided trade or two - and or the draft still.    If we don't want these guys - how are we going to trade them?  Brock yes ... the rest a lot tougher - and back to overpayment with UFAs to fill spots. 

 

Edit: And core ascension....

Edited by IBatch
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14 hours ago, EddieVedder said:

Y would you dump schenn?  Hes been excellent.   No one on our system can replace him.

My post wasn’t saying that we should, only that I think they will. 

 

I like him too, think he adds toughness that we would miss.

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On 3/4/2022 at 1:31 PM, luongianone said:

Our team has began struggling 5v5 defensively over a lot of metrics in the past little while. They have performed admirably for most of the year but it's still an issue. They're poor at breaking the puck out and don't create nearly enough offence. Your back end needs to be a scoring threat. At the moment only Hughes is. That's a big, big problem. We have 13 mill accumulated to OEL and Myers and they provide minimal offensively. 

 

PK is a huge problem that needs to be addressed for sure. Part of that equation is still a defender. 

 

Our teams mindset is definitely an issue. We need a culture change in the locker room. Some sandpaper guys that drag you into the fight whether you like it or not. Just once I wanna see these guys stand up for each other aggressively. Not just hold someone by the jersey for a few seconds. Not enough players on this team play pissed off like JT does.

Tyler Minors does.  He uses his size at least and obviously holds back given his post season play, and not just with Vancouver.    I don't mind either OEL or Myers - yes their cap hits aren't the best.   QHs has worse stats on the PK - he's played admirably though (since Bruce)....thing is it takes a village.   Is the composition right?  No.   Myers and Brock are the low hanging fruit to fix our cap.   We don't have a succession plan for either so we need some of that coming back OR we can expect to likely overpay to fill their spots.   There isn't a RHD on the market coming up the next two years.... Miller is the wild card because of what the return could be ... Is either Horvat or EP ready to be the main guy?  Maybe we should just wait and see.     Will find out soon enough anyways.   At least we have players to trade (finally) and at also it's hard not to ignore what the teams achieved under Bruce either. 

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On 3/5/2022 at 4:16 PM, VegasCanuck said:

My post wasn’t saying that we should, only that I think they will. 

 

I like him too, think he adds toughness that we would miss.

Get that too.   We could easily trade both Motte and Schenn for seconds ... maybe even a little more depending on the market.   Garland would get us a first and a player - Miller a player and possibly two firsts.    That's the crux though.   Think we do nothing if we still in it other maybe a minor move or two.   Brock is the main quandary.   A team looking to boost goal scoring ... but again don't think he should just be a cap dump.    Thing the team needs to work on is deciding whether or not to continue with the JB era idea that our core keeps ascension.   If it can manage that then our window actually opens now.   If not then we need a trade or two to help for later on.   The mushy middle isn't a fun place to be in .... another playoff would be ideal as far as a deciding factor goes.   It's hard not to like this team right now.   Making the playoffs and winning a  round or two would help make a decision on what to do next. 

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