Is there really a need to trade ANYONE?

[Dekey Pete]

1 hour ago, Tyndall2 said:

We can score with the players we have.  Our goalkeeping is sound.  What we need are some defensemen who can defend but skate and add something to the offense.  We thought OEL was that guy but hmmmmm.....Hughes is terrible as a defenseman but great in the other end.  This is where we need help.

You must be joking, or talking about his brother.  Hughes is actually pretty good in his own end.  He often is the one recovering the puck, settling things down and starting things the other way.  

[Canuckfanforlife82]

I am sort of confused after hearing they may not trade anyone about what direction the team is going or who they are as a team? Yes they are playing well but they aren’t a fast or physical team and it would be nice to have one of those features. I don’t think it means we trade everyone but keeping the team the same doesn’t really make sense when we know they aren’t good enough to compete with the big boys. Is anyone else confused hearing they may stay with the status quo. How does that help us free up money or build on the players we have here already. I would just like to be able to say our team plays this style but right now it still doesn’t feel like we know what we are.

Edited March 10, 2022 by Canuckfanforlife82

[DSVII]

24 minutes ago, HKSR said:

No disrespect, but it's a stupid argument, and the guys on 650 had a whole segment talking about.  You're basically taking the franchise player out of a lineup and arguing how the team would be a lot worse.  Horvat and Boeser are not the equivalent of a Demko because Demko is likely top 3 or top 5 in the entire NHL at his position.

 

This is no different than saying EDM would be so much worse if McDavid was taken out of their lineup.  Matthews was taken out of TOR's lineup.  Heck Miller out of the Canucks lineup (I believe the record is 1-14-1 when Miller doesn't get a point).  Shesterkin out of the NYR lineup.  You get the idea.

 

EDIT:  Honestly, Demko hasn't been playing AMAZING the past couple weeks.  He's playing well, but not amazing, yet the Canucks keep on winning.  Even last night, he didn't look that great.  That should tell you what kind of team this is.

 

That's fine haha we can have a difference of opinion, I don't even listen to 650 anymore so not even sure what that segment said.

 

I guess it just comes down to the nub of it, who do you think stole more games for their respective teams? McDavid or Demko? I think you can make the case that players like Shesterkin and Demko have been saving their teams more than McDavid and Matthews have been outscoring their team's problems. But there's so many nuances to consider it isn't worth our time to go over it.

 

And yeah, was at the game last night, those goals weren't Demko's fault. Maybe one of them, but the rest was defensive breakdowns.

 

And yes The team definitely is rounding out. Loving what Boudreau has brought to the team. But there's still a visible hole in the team on the RHD side this season, I'm cautiously optimistic this season. but it's keeping the whole gang together for the next year that's got me concerned. But I'm confident we'll find a way. 

Edited March 10, 2022 by DSVII

[wildcam]

1 hour ago, CanucksJay said:

Mabe I got my facts incorrect but this is what I currently see signed for next year

2022 NHL Cap = 82.5m

 

Petterson, Horvat, Miller, Garland, Pearson, Dickinson, Podz, Hogz = 31M

Left to sign = (Boeser 7m, Motte, 2.5, Lammiko 1m, Highmore 1m) 11m  (My hope would be that we would get Boes down to 6.75 and Motte down to 2m)

12 Forwards signed @ 42.5m

 

Hughs, OEL, Myers, Hamonic Schenn, Burroughs, Poolman = 28.25 m

 

Demko = 5m

 

Holtby and JV dead cap = 2.4m

 

Total cap hit = 78.15m

 

13th forward <1m  (Dowling, Lockwood, Bailey, DiGiuseppi)  , backup goalie  <1m  (Martin,  DiPietro)

 

Team cap 80.15m  Capspace left 2.35m

 

After next year when Horvat and Miller are due, 2.4M in dead cap is gone so we should have 4.75m between Horvat and Miller raises

Horvat is due for a moderate raise while Miller a bit more. Even if we give Horvat 7m and Miller 8m, thats only 4.25M.  We technically have even up to 4.75

Hammer, Burroughs and Schenn contracts are done 4.6m. We need to re-sign them then or fill with younger guys like Woo, Rathbone

 

Since BB took over, we are 21-8-4.  Most of our losses came when we were icing an AHL calbre roster due to covid.

I don't see why we need to trade anyone this year. We aren't pressed against the cap next year.

Even the following year, if we are playing well at the TDL, who knows, we might even buy.

 

I think most of us are gettign caught in the media hype of TDL. Our cap situaton seems fine to me?

Some key deals are that we have Demko locked in at 5m, we have Hughes at <8m, we have Garland <5m

 

PPL might then worry about Petey's new contract but guess what? Dickinson and Pearson contracts are done then...

I havent even factored whethr cap would be going up the following season either...

 

Anyway, dont buy into the hype guys.  We can easily run it back next year and the year after etc.

The only reason why I would trade is if I am not sold on some players on this team and we can get good value on a trade but right now, there is no point in selling low on anyone of our guys. We have the leverage and think it's absurd that we need to tade ppl to make capspace

 

 

 

 

 

I would still trade Miller 29 yrs old  if offer is good.. Miller will demand 6yrs X 7.8 million next summer 30yrs old....

Trade with NYR, LA Kings or Colorado..

NYR- Schneider 6'2, RD  , Chytil, 6'3, Barron, 23, 6'4 W -- 2nd rounder -----NYR. Miller - Motte

B -trade - Lundkvist 21 RD -- Kravtsov 22, 6'2 W-- Barron6'4 W-- 1st rounder ---- Miller---3rd rounder 2023

 

LA have several very good prospect  and Colorado...

 

This trade would set up the future...Not trading Miller for the big offer would be a mistake for future..

We don't want 30 yr olds locked up for 5 or 6 years...

[Devron]

1 hour ago, Tyndall2 said:

Hughes is terrible as a defenseman but great in the other end

Ummmm no sorry. Quinn is great in both ends 

[Bure_Pavel]

1 hour ago, CanucksJay said:

Mabe I got my facts incorrect but this is what I currently see signed for next year

2022 NHL Cap = 82.5m

 

Petterson, Horvat, Miller, Garland, Pearson, Dickinson, Podz, Hogz = 31M

Left to sign = (Boeser 7m, Motte, 2.5, Lammiko 1m, Highmore 1m) 11m  (My hope would be that we would get Boes down to 6.75 and Motte down to 2m)

12 Forwards signed @ 42.5m

 

Hughs, OEL, Myers, Hamonic Schenn, Burroughs, Poolman = 28.25 m

 

Demko = 5m

 

Holtby and JV dead cap = 2.4m

 

Total cap hit = 78.15m

 

13th forward <1m  (Dowling, Lockwood, Bailey, DiGiuseppi)  , backup goalie  <1m  (Martin,  DiPietro)

 

Team cap 80.15m  Capspace left 2.35m

 

After next year when Horvat and Miller are due, 2.4M in dead cap is gone so we should have 4.75m between Horvat and Miller raises

Horvat is due for a moderate raise while Miller a bit more. Even if we give Horvat 7m and Miller 8m, thats only 4.25M.  We technically have even up to 4.75

Hammer, Burroughs and Schenn contracts are done 4.6m. We need to re-sign them then or fill with younger guys like Woo, Rathbone

 

Since BB took over, we are 21-8-4.  Most of our losses came when we were icing an AHL calbre roster due to covid.

I don't see why we need to trade anyone this year. We aren't pressed against the cap next year.

Even the following year, if we are playing well at the TDL, who knows, we might even buy.

 

I think most of us are gettign caught in the media hype of TDL. Our cap situaton seems fine to me?

Some key deals are that we have Demko locked in at 5m, we have Hughes at <8m, we have Garland <5m

 

PPL might then worry about Petey's new contract but guess what? Dickinson and Pearson contracts are done then...

I havent even factored whethr cap would be going up the following season either...

 

Anyway, dont buy into the hype guys.  We can easily run it back next year and the year after etc.

The only reason why I would trade is if I am not sold on some players on this team and we can get good value on a trade but right now, there is no point in selling low on anyone of our guys. We have the leverage and think it's absurd that we need to tade ppl to make capspace

 

 

 

 

 

Status Quo isnt going to do it against the premier teams in the league, Canucks need to make improvements to depth and blue line especially. 

[Canuckfanforlife82]

10 minutes ago, Bure_Pavel said:

Status Quo isnt going to do it against the premier teams in the league, Canucks need to make improvements to depth and blue line especially. 

Ya, that’s why it’s confusing that everything will remain the same even though the chances of them missing the playoffs are still pretty slim.

[Bure_Pavel]

5 minutes ago, Canuckfanforlife82 said:

Ya, that’s why it’s confusing that everything will remain the same even though the chances of them missing the playoffs are still pretty slim.

I dont think the Canucks missing the playoffs is slim, looking like 50-50 at this point, this home stand is the deciding factor. Still need to take a long term approach to build a true contender. Playoff exp would help though. Three games against Vegas is also huge, not sure we stack up to them yet.   

Edited March 10, 2022 by Bure_Pavel

[CanucksJay]

Just now, Canuckfanforlife82 said:

I am sort of confused after hearing they may not trade anyone on what direction the team is going. Yes they are playing well but they aren’t a fast or physical team and it would be nice to have one of those features. I don’t think it means we trade everyone but keeping the team the same doesn’t really make sense when we know they aren’t good enough to compete with the big boys. Is anyone else confused hearing they may stay with the status quo. How does that help us free up money or build on the players we have here already. I would just like to be able to say our team plays this style but right now it still doesn’t feel like we know what we are.

I feel like our identity has been formed under BB

We are an aggressive, good skating, forechecking team.

We pressure as a  unit. 

Miller talked about the change since BB took over and basically everybody is moving as a 5 man unit and pressuring up ice.  He talked about feeling the accountability to skate hard because when he looks over and sees Pearson and Boeser going in full speed, he knows he needs to get in there too or the forecheck will fall apart.

 

He talked about how Mtl did that to them last year and its good to be on the giving end of those forechecks.  

I think we are a fast team.  We arent fast like Carolina but team speed wise, I think we're pretty solid.

 

I guess the concern with staying status quo is that is the record under BB is a mirage and team reverts back to TG levels...

If we look at performance under BB though, we've beat a lot of good teams (TOx2, Carolina, Bruins, Caps, Flames, Preds)

 

I feel like if we make it into the playoffs, we'll surprise a lot of people. 

For one, I dont think we would approach the Vegas series the same way if we played them again.  We would be the one putting pressure on their defence all game.

TG's plan of going into a passive box for 60 minutes got us to game 7 with Demko standing on his head but I do wonder what would have happened if we pressured Vegas instead.

 

I look at that 3-1 loss to St Louis when we were battling covid. We outshot them 39 to 17. Husso played well and Mikey D had a rough night and we lost 3-1 but I thought we dominated.

 

It'll be interesting during this home stretch when we play Caps, Lighting, Flames in the remaining 6 games.  

Team needs to prove whether they are contenders or pretenders.

 

[Canuckfanforlife82]

10 minutes ago, Bure_Pavel said:

I dont think the Canucks missing the playoffs is slim, looking like 50-50 at this point, this home stand is the deciding factor. Still need to take a long term approach to build a true contender. Playoff exp would help though. Three games against Vegas is also huge, not sure we stack up to them yet.   

You have teams in front and with games in hand. You can’t over look that. Plus you have a really tough schedule after the deadline which will be more of a realistic way of knowing if we are pretenders or contenders. By then it’s too late to do anything.

Edited March 10, 2022 by Canuckfanforlife82

[IBatch]

1 hour ago, CanucksJay said:

The only concern I have is that while I am a fan of Boeser, he has been a perennial 60-70 pt guy (over 82 games) in the league. 

His 2 way game is near the bottom of the team between him and Hogz. (literally every forward is better in that respect) 

His skating is also 2nd worst on the team in front of Chiasson. 

I dunno if his hands and scoring prowess is worth 7m at 65pts / season... 

 

I have no idea what 7m gets you nowadays... 

 

You can't just use this year as his sample size for his "two-way game".... he's actually pretty decent if you look a little deeper into his advanced stats overall.    I don't think he's worth his qualifying offer, but do think he's just fine as supporting core player much like Sharp was in CHI.    5.5.-6.5 x 5 seems about right. 

[Alflives]

There is an absolute need to trade Miller.  His value is through the roof.  Rags would offer Lafreniere, Schneider, Kakko, and a first.  That's got to be tempting for PA and JR to accept.

[IBatch]

13 minutes ago, Bure_Pavel said:

I dont think the Canucks missing the playoffs is slim, looking like 50-50 at this point, this home stand is the deciding factor. Still need to take a long term approach to build a true contender. Playoff exp would help though. Three games against Vegas is also huge, not sure we stack up to them yet.   

Good post.  Also think Stone is > then Eichel.   At least right now.   Vegas lost some depth too.... they aren't the same team we met in the playoffs anymore and neither are we.   Think we can easily split those games. 

[CanucksJay]

1 minute ago, Canuckfanforlife82 said:

You have teams in front and with games

in hand. You can’t over look that.

Totally

 

But at the rate we are winning, and I know that's a big IF but IF we can keep it up, it would only seem a matter of time before we catch Dallas, Nashville or Vegas?

We play Dallas twice and Vegas 3x.

 

 

[Rindiculous]

16 minutes ago, Bure_Pavel said:

I dont think the Canucks missing the playoffs is slim, looking like 50-50 at this point, this home stand is the deciding factor. Still need to take a long term approach to build a true contender. Playoff exp would help though. Three games against Vegas is also huge, not sure we stack up to them yet.   

The question is are we already built as a contender minus a #4 D to replace Schenn?  We've basically played half the season as a top 5 team in the league.  This is a combination of Boudreau and our forward lines finally gelling.  If we keep the same squad next year, I'm interested in how good we will be.

[CanucksJay]

4 minutes ago, IBatch said:

You can't just use this year as his sample size for his "two-way game".... he's actually pretty decent if you look a little deeper into his advanced stats overall.    I don't think he's worth his qualifying offer, but do think he's just fine as supporting core player much like Sharp was in CHI.    5.5.-6.5 x 5 seems about right. 

Yeah I thought he was good last year and in the bubble.  ANd even last night

I dont know why there's such a big difference between say last night and some other games.  How does skating levels change so drastically with Boes?

[Bure_Pavel]

Just now, Rindiculous said:

The question is are we already built as a contender minus a #4 D to replace Schenn?  We've basically played half the season as a top 5 team in the league.  This is a combination of Boudreau and our forward lines finally gelling.  If we keep the same squad next year, I'm interested in how good we will be.

Seeing how bad we were at the start I dont think we are yet, coaching makes a big difference but not worst team in the league difference. I do believe we are a playoff team at the moment, contender not yet. Colorado would put the boots to us in a 7 game series.  

[CanucksJay]

4 minutes ago, Bure_Pavel said:

Seeing how bad we were at the start I dont think we are yet, coaching makes a big difference but not worst team in the league difference. I do believe we are a playoff team at the moment, contender not yet. Colorado would put the boots to us in a 7 game series.  

Yeah

I mean if the question is, are we a Stanley Cup favorite? the answer is no. Colorado, Carolina and Florida are. We however even beat Carolina once this year.

Does that mean the other 27 teams in the league should be rebuilding? Why play the game even?

We spanked Cgy 7-1. SHould they be selling?

 

 

The way our guys are playing right now, and especially with Demko in net, I feel that our chances are pertty good regardless of who we face.

Our worst losses under BB came against NYI, ANa, NJ.

Had it been the other way around and our worst losses came against top teams, I would be more inclined to say no we are not good enough and we need to retool.

What  I got out of those 3 losses above is that I question some of the players work mentality...Enough to consider trading them.  Not because they are bad players but they dont show the desire to win at all costs. 

 

the 3 losses however is amazing under BB.  We've played 33 games under him so if we no show 1 in 11 games, but show up for the other ones like TOx2, and Cgy, does that mean anything?  

We used to no show 1 in 3 games uder TG. 

 

This team is my second favorite after the 94 Canucks.  I like this team even more than the 2011 Team.

We really need to throw out the record under TG and look at how BB has done.

Completely different system, completely different results.

BB's Canucks are 21-8-4 . 

I don't know where that ranks league wide when looking at past 33 games but I would assume it's near the top. This is our record even when our lineup was completely ripped during Covid and we played our 5th string goalie and missing key chunks of the team during the toughest roadtrip of the year.  

Had we had our normal roster, who knows what our record would be?  Maybe 24-5-4? Even better than that? 

 

I am very interested to see how we do in the homestand against Caps, Lighting and Cgy.

It should tell us whether we are the real deal or not.  Our team is clicking and there really is no excuse this time.  

 

I think those 3 games are a service to Allvin and company because they can directly gauge where this team is in comparison to other really good teams.  Sure its not Colorado or Florida but it give them more data to evaluate heading into the TDL.

If they win convincingly does he buy?

If they get smoked, do they sell?

 

So far, Canucks team under BB has been great and I am hoping that our guys continue to push through

 

 

 

 

[CanucksJay]

33 minutes ago, Alflives said:

There is an absolute need to trade Miller.  His value is through the roof.  Rags would offer Lafreniere, Schneider, Kakko, and a first.  That's got to be tempting for PA and JR to accept.

Lol if that was the offer, I'd take it and run

[shiznak]

I mentioned this in the Miller trade talk thread.

 

As long as the team keeps winning, there is no reason for management to trade anyone. I feel like they’re just going to ride it out with what they got until the off-season.