Is there really a need to trade ANYONE?

[IBatch]

30 minutes ago, CanucksJay said:

Yeah I thought he was good last year and in the bubble.  ANd even last night

I dont know why there's such a big difference between say last night and some other games.  How does skating levels change so drastically with Boes?

Lol - because he's trying to find a spot.   Same thing all wingers do that don't have the lightning speed guys like "Motte, Rousell and Mason Raymond" had... Robataille, Shanny and Bret Hull (his father Did though) didn't have blazing speed either.    Is Hagelin leading the league in scoring?

[Bure_Pavel]

9 minutes ago, CanucksJay said:

Yeah

I mean if the question is, are we a Stanley Cup favorite? the answer is no. Colorado, Carolina and Florida are. We however even beat Carolina once this year.

Does that mean the other 27 teams in the league should be rebuilding? Why play the game even?

We spanked Cgy 7-1. SHould they be selling?

 

 

The way our guys are playing right now, and especially with Demko in net, I feel that our chances are pertty good regardless of who we face.

Our worst losses under BB came against NYI, ANa, NJ.

Had it been the other way around and our worst losses came against top teams, I would be more inclined to say no we are not good enough and we need to retool.

What  I got out of those 3 losses above is that I question some of the players work mentality...Enough to consider trading them.  Not because they are bad players but they dont show the desire to win at all costs. 

 

the 3 losses however is amazing under BB.  We've played 33 games under him so if we no show 1 in 11 games, but show up for the other ones like TOx2, and Cgy, does that mean anything?  

We used to no show 1 in 3 games uder TG. 

 

This team is my second favorite after the 94 Canucks.  I like this team even more than the 2011 Team.

We really need to throw out the record under TG and look at how BB has done.

Completely different system, completely different results.

BB's Canucks are 21-8-4 . 

I don't know where that ranks league wide when looking at past 33 games but I would assume it's near the top. This is our record even when our lineup was completely ripped during Covid and we played our 5th string goalie and missing key chunks of the team during the toughest roadtrip of the year.  

Had we had our normal roster, who knows what our record would be?  Maybe 24-5-4? Even better than that? 

 

I am very interested to see how we do in the homestand against Caps, Lighting and Cgy.

It should tell us whether we are the real deal or not.  Our team is clicking and there really is no excuse this time.  

 

I think those 3 games are a service to Allvin and company because they can directly gauge where this team is in comparison to other really good teams.  Sure its not Colorado or Florida but it give them more data to evaluate heading into the TDL.

If they win convincingly does he buy?

If they get smoked, do they sell?

 

So far, Canucks team under BB has been great and I am hoping that our guys continue to push through

 

 

 

 

We do not have the depth to go deep into the playoffs, Colorado still has cap space to improve at the deadline as well. One analytics website has us at a 0.32% chance of winning the Stanley Cup this year, while this number may vary based on who you ask its not high enough for me to risk future success. 

[CanucksJay]

Just now, IBatch said:

Lol - because he's trying to find a spot.   Same thing all wingers do that don't have the lightning speed guys like "Motte, Rousell and Mason Raymond" had... Robataille, Shanny and Bret Hull (his father Did though) didn't have blazing speed either.    Is Hagelin leading the league in scoring?

I'm talking about the defensive side of things.

I know for Boes offense will come when he is moving his feet without the puck. That means hard forecheck and hard backcheck. Somedays, it looks like he' not skating hard but it might be from overthinking and trying to figure out his defensive assignments while in stride istead of it being second nature

[CanucksJay]

12 minutes ago, Bure_Pavel said:

We do not have the depth to go deep into the playoffs, Colorado still has cap space to improve at the deadline as well. One analytics website has us at a 0.32% chance of winning the Stanley Cup this year, while this number may vary based on who you ask its not high enough for me to risk future success. 

Yeah I think you are playing the percentages but this is sports and a lot of weird things happen. 

Like who knew Bengals would go to the SuperBowl? Who knew niners would beat Green Bay? 

Mtl last year? Cup finalist? 

I think I read somewhere that we might be a top 5 team under BB. At what point do you not sell but go for it? Top 3? Top 1?

Canucks were favourites in 2011 and lost. 

Canucks were favourites against the kings and lost first round and watched the kings win the cup as the 8th seed. 

To me, a top 5 team has a good chance of winning. 

That being said, the hole was so big under TG that we might not even make the playoffs. 

I feel like some of you guys would rebuild forever until your top seed which may or may not happen but even then, there's always a risk of an upset. 

[Nuxfanabroad]

3 hours ago, Dazzle said:

Yeah, I really thought we had a good lineup this year. Then preseason and the first season games happened. I honestly think that one reason that TG was supposedly respected around the league because he kept telling the media that "that's a good team over there".

 

Does anyone still think that Green brought out the most of his rosters? This was a false narrative that was propagated by the media. People like Craig Button, who Donnie commonly brought on his show, had been praising Green for doing all that he could with a "poorly built" roster. (In his words)

When suggesting Green F***ed up in the Vegas bubble-series, I took a lot of heat in that Sept 2020 thread. One nasty(infamous?) poster trolled me for 2 or 3 pages

:^) ...then all his libelous posts mysteriously disappeared into the ether?! Couldn't help it, so much of what I saw from that TG clown would grind the gears. Dude had the puck IQ, imagination, determination & bravery of a woodbug.

[Nuxfanabroad]

Would say today, we have 2 options:

 

A- trade a great piece(eg: Brock) for a nice return at the TDL. We take back youth/less cap AAV hit, AND we can attach a Poolman/Dicky type to open up perhaps 4-5 mill AAV, total.

 

B- Hang on to everything for a run this spring. Make the same deal at the draft, but likely CAN'T throw in a costly add-on, depth piece. Thus perhaps saving 2 or 3 mill, to just limbo under next yr's limit(perhaps?)

 

In short, if you wait, it'll cost you.

[CanucksJay]

9 minutes ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

When suggesting Green F***ed up in the Vegas bubble-series, I took a lot of heat in that Sept 2020 thread. One nasty(infamous?) poster trolled me for 2 or 3 pages

:^) ...then all his libelous posts mysteriously disappeared into the ether?! Couldn't help it, so much of what I saw from that TG clown would grind the gears. Dude had the puck IQ, imagination, determination & bravery of a woodbug.

I think Green lacked confidence which resulted in lack of bravery. As a grinder, he never possessed imagination either. 

Green hardly talked about how he approached things as a player but I hear BB talk about it all the time. Like when he was asked about culture and in his day they called it something along the lines of living the right way as a hockey player. He talked about how it was more fun to pressure the other team than to defend. 

I love the insights he gives in post game interviews. They wanted to be aggressive as a 3 man unit on the forecheck but 3rd man had to make sure one pass didn't beat all 3 guys etc. 

TG hid under a confident facade but he was lost. Never said anything insightful. Just a bunch of cliches. 

We did get to game 7 under TG with Demmer standing on his head and who knows, maybe that was the right strategy? I don't know if we had the horses to compete but we never found out because we went into a shell all series. 

 

[singing chef]

2 hours ago, Alflives said:

There is an absolute need to trade Miller.  His value is through the roof.  Rags would offer Lafreniere, Schneider, Kakko, and a first.  That's got to be tempting for PA and JR to accept.

IF, big if, the Rangers offered that for Miller, Canucks need to seriously consider that offer.  I have my doubts that the Rangers would offer 1st. overall (2020), 2nd. overall (2019), 19th. overall (2020) plus a 1st. rounder in 2022.  That's really depleting their reserves.  Would be nice though.

 

Just my opinion,

 

cheers.

[Nuxfanabroad]

4 minutes ago, CanucksJay said:

I think Green lacked confidence which resulted in lack of bravery. As a grinder, he never possessed imagination either. 

Green hardly talked about how he approached things as a player but I hear BB talk about it all the time. Like when he was asked about culture and in his day they called it something along the lines of living the right way as a hockey player. He talked about how it was more fun to pressure the other team than to defend. 

I love the insights he gives in post game interviews. They wanted to be aggressive as a 3 man unit on the forecheck but 3rd man had to make sure one pass didn't beat all 3 guys etc. 

TG hid under a confident facade but he was lost. Never said anything insightful. Just a bunch of cliches. 

We did get to game 7 under TG with Demmer standing on his head and who knows, maybe that was the right strategy? I don't know if we had the horses to compete but we never found out because we went into a shell all series. 

 

Agree with this analysis, CJ. Whether it's one's nature or life experiences(or combo?) we all have these reasons for how we're wired. There's no question the boys respond enthusiastically to BB's make-up. Guess I shouldn't slag TG for this fact, but it frustrated me as a fan, cos' I saw so much more potential in what JB had acquired.

 

Hearing TG was a poker-hound seemed telling of his nature. I picture Worm(Ed Norton's character) from the classic flick, "Rounders". Keeps doubling down 'til he'll likely be beaten to death! Unless you've got a roster like Scotty Bowman had in the late 70's, not sure a stone faced, card shark will cut the mustard in today's world(climate, culture, approach etc...) as an NHL head coach.

[IBatch]

3 hours ago, HKSR said:

There is the off chance that if Brock wants to play hardball, he could simply accept his QO 2 years in a row and walk into free agency as a UFA.  I don't think Brock is that kinda guy though...

If he goes there then we take him to arbitration.   I doubt he gets his QO in that case but both roads end in the same area.  That is him wanting out or walking 

[J-23]

.697 win percentage under BB.

 

Not sure why anyone wants to tear that apart.

 

We need to make some changes for sure, but that shouldn’t be trading the guy on pace for 90 points.

[J-23]

2 hours ago, Bure_Pavel said:

Seeing how bad we were at the start I dont think we are yet, coaching makes a big difference but not worst team in the league difference. I do believe we are a playoff team at the moment, contender not yet. Colorado would put the boots to us in a 7 game series.  

I don’t think we’d get absolutely killed by the Avs.

 

Demko would take us to at least 6 games.

 

Also depends on which Canuck team shows up.

[DownUndaCanuck]

5 hours ago, Dazzle said:

It's the exact same roster as what Green had. How do you explain how we lost so much at the beginning of the season with the full lineup?

 

I think a few of us had realized earlier on that the coaching was a huge issue, but still people don't admit it (for whatever reason). The media, for example, was SO defensive of Green, blaming it on the roster itself. It's clear that Benning didn't make very many friends outside of his administration.

I have said this for a long time - this is a GOOD team on paper, they just played terribly under Green and it's no surprise, he's an AHL level coach and now we have an NHL coach.

 

It's no surprise we had a monstrous record with AV, then a losing record with Willie and Green, and now another massive record (more than 2 wins to every loss) under Bruce.

 

I have no issues with JB, he constructed this team. Everyone who was calling this team "thin" was just using it as an excuse for us losing but if the season started 30 games ago we'd stay we've got admirable depth. I do agree that we need a young top right defenceman to play with Hughes, but everyone looks brilliant under Bruce.

 

I am of the mentality that we should not make any massive trades and see what this lineup can do with a full off season with Boudreau. We're playing at a 0.69 winning percentage which would be good for 5th best in the league. You don't blow up a top-5 team in the NHL. Best of all is that a lot of our core are very young and we have a few veterans mixed amongst them. That leads to what could be a very natural progression/regression plan. For example, OEL dropping minutes as Hughes/Rathbone pick more up. Same could be said for Miller/Petey. 

 

A 3rd line center would be nice but right now Bruce is rolling 3 lines with Bo essentially our 3C and we play our best hockey this way.

 

Many have wanted Brock traded due to his qualifying cap hit and that's fair - he's currently not worth 7.5M, but I think he will get better and will be next season. I'd stick with him, he's a young streaky scorer and if we untap that potential we have a beast on our hands. The quality we'd get in return from a trade would be nowhere near as good as the player he may well be soon, and it's not a long stretch to assume he'll be a consistent 30 goal scorer. He's just about a point per game and scoring at a 30+ goal pace under Bruce.

 

Then the other big question is what to do with the "dead cap" players like Poolman and Dickinson. I agree, they suck, and can be replaced easily internally. If there's any team who wants them for a late pick I'd throw them away, but that's about the extent of the trading I think we should do.

 

We need to stop messing with this roster, it's had so many changes over the last few years, we need to just let it settle, let the guys build chemistry with one another and they'll grow and get better themselves.

[IBatch]

1 hour ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

Would say today, we have 2 options:

 

A- trade a great piece(eg: Brock) for a nice return at the TDL. We take back youth/less cap AAV hit, AND we can attach a Poolman/Dicky type to open up perhaps 4-5 mill AAV, total.

 

B- Hang on to everything for a run this spring. Make the same deal at the draft, but likely CAN'T throw in a costly add-on, depth piece. Thus perhaps saving 2 or 3 mill, to just limbo under next yr's limit(perhaps?)

 

In short, if you wait, it'll cost you.

A - what team is going to take both Brock and one of Poolman or Dickinson on?  

Edited March 10, 2022 by IBatch

[Nuxfanabroad]

5 minutes ago, IBatch said:

A - what team is going to take both Brock and one of Poolman or Dickinson on?  

How often do any posters here GUESS which pkgs are going precisely where? One can suggest ideas, fwiw

 

One point I feel is worth suggesting, is opening up cap(in-season) might be more valuable, than is often appreciated. From Van's pov, you take one of our key pieces at this crucial point of the season..well, we need extra incentive to accept.

 

Otherwise, should they keep winning/stay in the race, they may's well simply wait til off-season to deal with next yr's cap-squeeze.

[*Buzzsaw*]

Team needs to acquire a big #2 D to complement Hughes and a big #5 D to complement Schenn.

 

It needs at least one big, fast skating forward to go on the 3rd line.

[luongianone]

Yeah, we need to trade Myers/Dickinson/Poolman. Among others as well but these are the most important. The catch? They're probably the most untradeable. Which is why other names prop up. Myers is probably a lot more tradeable after next year. I think he's not owed much in total dollar amount after his bonus is paid. Them being so untradeable is why there are so much talk about trading others. Pearson/Hamonic can go as well but their play relative to their contract isn't terrible. At least when Hamonic plays.

 

If you can figure out a way to move these guys then no one else gets moved. This would give us the necessary cap space to surround this roster with the right guys and improve right away. Only other thing I could see happening is flipping Boeser for a top 4 RD.

[Bure_Pavel]

1 hour ago, J-23 said:

I don’t think we’d get absolutely killed by the Avs.

 

Demko would take us to at least 6 games.

 

Also depends on which Canuck team shows up.

6 if we are lucky. 

 

If they get Giroux there top 6 will be:

 

Landeskog - Mackinnon - Rantanen

Burakovsky - Kadri - Giroux

 

They currently have 5 players well over a point/game. 

[J-23]

2 minutes ago, Bure_Pavel said:

6 if we are lucky. 

 

If they get Giroux there top 6 will be:

 

Landeskog - Mackinnon - Rantanen

Burakovsky - Kadri - Giroux

 

They currently have 5 players well over a point/game. 

And we have a Demko.

[Vinny in Vancouver]

Maybe Halak...