Is there really a need to trade ANYONE?

[Chris12345]

Absolutely.

[hammertime]

yes you move Brock if you can make a hockey trade and get a 3c and a pick. or ideally prospect that can be used as depth. we can continue playoff charge without Brock. I want to see Garland on pp1. 

[IBatch]

3 hours ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

How often do any posters here GUESS which pkgs are going precisely where? One can suggest ideas, fwiw

 

One point I feel is worth suggesting, is opening up cap(in-season) might be more valuable, than is often appreciated. From Van's pov, you take one of our key pieces at this crucial point of the season..well, we need extra incentive to accept.

 

Otherwise, should they keep winning/stay in the race, they may's well simply wait til off-season to deal with next yr's cap-squeeze.

For sure it's doable - nobody made a thread quite like JB that dumped all of the cap and brought in OEL and Garland.   Cap space for sure is important.  Would rather have productive blue chip guys that cost a little more then they should then guys who don't.    Just hope Allvin is better at using his cap space when he gets it - not that JB was all bad either.    It's tough, for sure isn't easy to predict the future with these guys sometimes.   

[iceman64]

9 hours ago, Dazzle said:

It's the exact same roster as what Green had. How do you explain how we lost so much at the beginning of the season with the full lineup?

 

I think a few of us had realized earlier on that the coaching was a huge issue, but still people don't admit it (for whatever reason). The media, for example, was SO defensive of Green, blaming it on the roster itself. It's clear that Benning didn't make very many friends outside of his administration.

Where were you at the beginning of the year, new players and Hughes and Petey were in negs. Hamonic was out, Green was trying too hard in his search where to put everyone and worse, he tried to run systems that didn't have to be run at all, no one knew what they were supposed to do and where to be, it especially showed on the back end when we were easily pinned in our own zone for most games. 

Add to that, Petey struggling, so all in all, Green just had to keep things simple until the new players settled in. 

So it added up to a $&!#e show, had we won half our lost 14 games which would have been 7 more wins than we have no which is another 14 points to where we are now which is a easy playoff spot but you can blame Green but don't lose sight of the shi_tty circumstances either 

[King Heffy]

17 minutes ago, iceman64 said:

Where were you at the beginning of the year, new players and Hughes and Petey were in negs. Hamonic was out, Green was trying too hard in his search where to put everyone and worse, he tried to run systems that didn't have to be run at all, no one knew what they were supposed to do and where to be, it especially showed on the back end when we were easily pinned in our own zone for most games. 

Add to that, Petey struggling, so all in all, Green just had to keep things simple until the new players settled in. 

So it added up to a $&!#e show, had we won half our lost 14 games which would have been 7 more wins than we have no which is another 14 points to where we are now which is a easy playoff spot but you can blame Green but don't lose sight of the shi_tty circumstances either 

A lot of the issues with the lineup juggling were due to:

1. Green's inability to set the lineup properly
2. Green insisting on using training camp to test out AHL trash, and then gift useless bums roster spots over actual NHLers

Green made the lineup issues with Hughes, Petey, and Hamonic even worse with his incompetence and lack of professionalism.  The main reason we were pinned in our own zone was  because Green insisted on allowing an unqualified clown in Baumgartner to sabotage our team.  The entire reason we are in the situation we are in is due to Green; the worst circumstance of them all was allowing the worst coach in the history of the team to cause permanent damage to the franchise.

 

[kilgore]

8 hours ago, CanucksJay said:

LOL

we both know why....

There's a reason why I bet heavy on the Canucks making he playoffs this year.  Odds / payout was 3 to 1.  I looked at the roster and believed they were criminally under rated.

What I didnt factor in was the TG effect.

 

I started to get scared during training camp, and then pre season... and then wow, that reg season start was the worst thing ive ever seen.

 

I too was optimistic at the start of the season. And I had much the same journey as you did on the coaching as the losses piled up.

 

I was optimistic for a few reasons. The shedding of three dead weights. Adding Garland, and OEL (who I saw as a replacement for Edler).  The projected improvement of Hogz and Podz.  New players like Dickenson, Poolman were promising talents. And everyone was talking about the angry elf.  I was also counting on Pettersson to even be better than he was last season, for the whole season. As well as Hughes. I was counting on Sutter as a stable third line center to fill that spot.

 

I thought that it was probably JBs most successful off season.  Take that any way you like.

 

But in a lot of ways, the team BETTER have improved after JB pushed the rest of his chips in.  Forget about the future.  My posts then basically said that I thought we could have success this season for the reasons above. But lets not kid ourselves, JB was basically kicking the can down the road. Even if we had a good year. Almost any GM in the league can put together a decent enough team, for one season, if they take on a poison pill contract like OELs, Sign established NHL FAs over developing your own picks. And spending right up to the cap limit. My take was that the problems JB was setting the team up for the future, may have a way of working out...if there was success on the ice.  Players would be overrated vs underrated ie. trade value for one. 

 

As well I was just stoked to see the new additions, and not to have to watch the same miserable group as the season before including our empty net specialist. Even as I turned a blind eye to pragmatism of carrying the future Coyotes for just one more season....I still contend that the OEL contract will be increasingly ragged on as it ages, and a huge cap disadvantage in building a complete team in the next 5 seasons. And my logical Vulcan mind (three generations removed) tells me one more year of the three amigos would have been ugly to watch, but probably the shrewdest move for the future.

 

I was prepared to live in the moment last October. "day to day" as someone once said. Deal with the teams problems, like how we were ever going to improve our D, or restock the farm to keep any success going, or be able to keep all the rest of our core together,  for another time.  I'm a born procrastinator.

 

But all that went out the window with the Travis....ty of a start. Re-signing Green was a mistake. But re-signing Benning was a worse one. The criticism of JB had almost zero to do with TG, other than that re-signing.  Its not a Green vs. Benning. It was both of them for different reasons.  For JB it was stemming from a build up of his seven season record, and post season record of bad signings. Did we ever have a season we were not paying some kind of recapture penalty even on top of Lu's? The depleted prospect pool. The depleted draft picks. The failed gambles and bad pro-scouting. The overpayments. The lack of communication with valued stalwarts. The loss for nothing of valuable assets. The two pony show of him and Weisbrod. The general delusion about where this team was actually at and his defining what "insanity" was each off season.

 

But now, after I said all that, I am back to where I was at the start of the season.....plus a new coach and front office. That is optimistic about most of the players we have as a group.  I'm back to giving JB props for scraping together this good of a roster, considering what he had to work with even if it is incomplete and unsustainable the way it is built.  But as I said, almost any GM, if he trades away enough high picks and prospects, and overpays enough on FAs, and takes on a poison pill contract like OELs in order to clean up past mistakes and add a scoring winger, should be able to ice a decent team for one season. A team that may squeak into the playoffs.  JB had a very short sighted vision.  But as I said then, success breeds success. And a successful team, even with built in future headaches for the new GM to wiggle out of, will have more value to use, either to keep and build on, or as trade bait. I am counting on our new front office to be able to navigate the future land mines JB left for them in the coming years.   I am just happy that JB and Weisbrod are not the ones to deal with their own mess.

 

[spur1]

Yes we need to be a buyer at the deadline.

This trade Miller  crap is beyond bizarre.

Are the Leafs trading AM or ...er...never mind. Are

the Oil trading CMD or Dry.

How about OV...the Caps must be looking to trade him.

[Toyotasfan]

Do Chiason ,Hunt and Halak qualify for people we should trade or at the very least try to upgrade at the trade deadline. 

[HKSR]

41 minutes ago, spur1 said:

Yes we need to be a buyer at the deadline.

This trade Miller  crap is beyond bizarre.

Are the Leafs trading AM or ...er...never mind. Are

the Oil trading CMD or Dry.

How about OV...the Caps must be looking to trade him.

I heard Crosby is on his way out of Pittsburgh. 

[CanucksJay]

23 minutes ago, Toyotasfan said:

Do Chiason ,Hunt and Halak qualify for people we should trade or at the very least try to upgrade at the trade deadline. 

They won't see the ice when our injured guys return? (minus halak) 

Dickinson + Dowling > Chiasson

Burroughs + Poolman > Hunt

Halak? Martin? 

[iceman64]

2 hours ago, King Heffy said:

A lot of the issues with the lineup juggling were due to:

1. Green's inability to set the lineup properly
2. Green insisting on using training camp to test out AHL trash, and then gift useless bums roster spots over actual NHLers

Green made the lineup issues with Hughes, Petey, and Hamonic even worse with his incompetence and lack of professionalism.  The main reason we were pinned in our own zone was  because Green insisted on allowing an unqualified clown in Baumgartner to sabotage our team.  The entire reason we are in the situation we are in is due to Green; the worst circumstance of them all was allowing the worst coach in the history of the team to cause permanent damage to the franchise.

 

Yeah what worked in the bubble was an entirely different ball game from what you knew had to come, all the old contracts of the books finally and basically a pretty new team, your right with the line juggling, that was painful because once you have the panic button pressed down with your other finger and not taking it slow and simple... I wish the bubble didn't happen because TG probably wouldn't have been here to start the year... Grrrr! But... Well B.B. proved JB did ok and was at the end of his learning curve and put a decent but unfinished team on the ice and he along with everyone knew it. ALL those from the Gillis era are finally gone so I sure hope JR finishes what JB started and we tough up and depth up out of building or back to the same ole b.s. (again times 40+) years.. this is tiring..  

[Crabcakes]

I don't think they do anything until the offseason.  I think that they will let this team compete hard for the playoffs because it will benefit each and every player

 

They can't let Motte go for nothing so if they can't sign him, he'll be gone.  This is the one exception

 

Halak apparently has said that he won't waive his NTC, they'd trade him if the could but he's not playing along.  Perhaps he plans to retire

 

I suspect that they'll do a re-jiggy-jiggy in the offseason.  Who I do not know because there are good arguments not to move anybody except for Dickinson and Poolman.

 

Having said all that, it is clear that the D is wanting and they need to add some decent players.  

 

They have 6 good top 6 forwards (if you agree with Pearson as one of those) and 2 who look like they're on the way to being good

 

As for the D, the only one who I particularly like is Hughes.  I also like Schenn but he's a temporary piece at 32.  I don't think we're getting good value from OEL and Myers.  Hamonic is 31 and is alright when he's actually playing

 

Bottom line, it makes sense to move a top forward for a top RHD but who?  

[Rabbit]

I think we should improve our d-group and third line, in order to run the playoff more rounds. 

The management will try to rid one or two players to have room to do so.

I guess Brock is the first target.

What is the next one?

 

[-Vintage Canuck-]

There is always room for improvement.

[IBatch]

9 hours ago, spur1 said:

Yes we need to be a buyer at the deadline.

This trade Miller  crap is beyond bizarre.

Are the Leafs trading AM or ...er...never mind. Are

the Oil trading CMD or Dry.

How about OV...the Caps must be looking to trade him.

Why would we buy?   Get a hockey trade or perhaps some minor tweaks like we did with Benn to say improve on Hunt ... But trading away our picks seems counterintuitive ... have a two year gap and i'm not sure we are a contender (although have to say i'm starting to wonder what the heck is going on lol....went from being worse then we should to better then we should be ...)...

 

Edit:  Two year gap on prospects...

Edited March 11, 2022 by IBatch

[Putgolzin]

20 hours ago, JM_ said:

you pay AZ to take them, there's no other way. 

Maybe they give us Chychrun back straight-up

[Boudrias]

The biggest team need is a #1RD. Getting one means moving a top forward, likely Miller or Boeser. Since I don’t think Miller can be resigned at an affordable Cap hit or a term that compliments the team timeline I suspect he goes. What Miller would return to the Canucks could set the franchise up for a decade. It is the safest move to make. Canucks as an org have historically taken shortcuts in efforts to win a Cup. Hopefully this time it will be different. To move Miller Rutherford has to get back a big return. What Miller offers an acquiring team is 2 Cup opportunities by a top 5 center. That is extremely rare and a valuable. The bidding has to be intense.

[StanleyCupOneDay]

20 hours ago, Canuckfanforlife82 said:

I am sort of confused after hearing they may not trade anyone about what direction the team is going or who they are as a team? Yes they are playing well but they aren’t a fast or physical team and it would be nice to have one of those features. I don’t think it means we trade everyone but keeping the team the same doesn’t really make sense when we know they aren’t good enough to compete with the big boys. Is anyone else confused hearing they may stay with the status quo. How does that help us free up money or build on the players we have here already. I would just like to be able to say our team plays this style but right now it still doesn’t feel like we know what we are.

You don’t need to be a fast and physical team in order to have success. What you need is creating forward lines that have instinctive chemistry with one another. After 30 games with the team Bruce has finally found that formula on not 1, but 3 of our offensive lines.

 

Pearson-Miller-Boeser

Höglander-Pettersson-Garland

Motte-Lammikko-Highmore

 

Every single one of them are giving opposing teams fits to contain. The other line is a work in progress with injuries and placeholders.
 

Also this isn’t talked about nearly enough about how big a change it is from before, but our defence is producing offence finally. It’s been kind of under the radar. Since January 27th our D have gotten:

 

OEL 10 points

Hamonic 5 points

Hughes 13 points

Hunt 6 points

Myers 4 points

Schenn 5 points

Juulsen 2 points

Burroughs 2 points

 

So in the last 16 games we’ve gotten 37 points from our back end.
 

From October 13th to January 25th our D got:

 

OEL 7 points

Hamonic 1 point

Hughes 32 points

Hunt 4 points

Myers 10 points

Schenn 6 points

Juulsen 0 points

Burroughs 3 points

Poolman 3 points

 

So in the first 42 games we got a total of 66 points from our back end.

[IBatch]

35 minutes ago, Boudrias said:

The biggest team need is a #1RD. Getting one means moving a top forward, likely Miller or Boeser. Since I don’t think Miller can be resigned at an affordable Cap hit or a term that compliments the team timeline I suspect he goes. What Miller would return to the Canucks could set the franchise up for a decade. It is the safest move to make. Canucks as an org have historically taken shortcuts in efforts to win a Cup. Hopefully this time it will be different. To move Miller Rutherford has to get back a big return. What Miller offers an acquiring team is 2 Cup opportunities by a top 5 center. That is extremely rare and a valuable. The bidding has to be intense.

Yes this is all true.   But would say with the caveat - what some folks think Miller could get us just is out to lunch.   No competing team wants to pay tom to pay bob etc / in other words we aren't going to get a RHD that is proven or part of their lineup - not likely anyways.    What we could get and should get is a roster player back, a grade A prospect and a first.   We could get the exact same next trade deadline as well. 

 

Edit;  So i'm agreeing with you.  If the actual ask or trade is superior to that take it and run!  If not then don't pull the trigger because we can do it again at the draft or in the off season or next TDL.   Guys are learning how to win right now and learning what sort of intensity is required right from the hop.  

Edited March 11, 2022 by IBatch

[Boudrias]

1 minute ago, IBatch said:

Yes this is all true.   But would say with the caveat - what some folks think Miller could get us just is out to lunch.   No competing team wants to pay tom to pay bob etc / in other words we aren't going to get a RHD that is proven or part of their lineup - not likely anyways.    What we could get and should get is a roster player back, a grade A prospect and a first.   We could get the exact same next trade deadline as well. 

For sure you could be right. To make this work for Van the bidding has to produce a return the warrants moving Miller. Do you think the Canucks can win a Cup with Miller in 2 years? If not then can he be resigned, if he even wants to be? If his level of play holds he will want $10 million plus term. Are there other options within the org? 
 

To me the safest and most timeline sensitive choice is to likely move Miller. But as a fan I have no inner knowledge of the Rutherford think tank. It will be interesting.