A lot of talk about a core piece not being here next year.

[Johnny Torts]

I’m just trying to make sense of it myself.

”a lot of talk” - as in I was listening to iMac in the second intermission of the second last Canucks game vs LA. - edit

 

Cap Friendly says the following about the projected cap space moving forward:

 

22-23 - $11.8 M (Without Boeser, and assuming Dick or Poolman and some others are still not dumped)

 

23-24 - $34.2 M (Without Boeser, Miller and Horvat)

 

24-25 - $56.9 M (Without the contracts of Boeser Miller Horvat Petey and Podz )

 

I am just naming the significant players.

 

 

I will assume the following $$ for said players, on the high end to be safe.

 

Boeser - 7M

Horvat - 7M

Miller -9M

 

Petey - 11M

Podz - 5M

 

22-23 : ~ 4.8M left after signing Boeser (had 11.8 M in space)

 

23-24 : 34.2M minus 4.8 BB, 9 JT, 7 BO = 11.2 M left over

 

24-25 : 56.9M minus BB, JT, and BO contracts = 33.9M to resign the significants in PETEY (11)and PODZ (5)

 

= 17.9 Million

 

Also assuming bottom pairing and depth forwards are paid accordingly.

 

We have the space to resign our core and pick up a defenseman. 
 

We also have a lot of value on the team if someone does need to be moved to even out the roster offensively and defensively, right? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 29, 2022 by Johnny Torts

[nux_win]

"A lot of talk..."  By whom?

 

GCG!

[Johnny Torts]

6 minutes ago, nux_win said:

"A lot of talk..."  By whom?

 

GCG!

Most recent iMac second intermission

[Johnny Torts]

8 minutes ago, nux_win said:

"A lot of talk..."  By whom?

 

GCG!

I put an edit in thank you 

[Gnarcore]

I'll consider getting rid of the DJ the biggest win of the off season. 

[nux_win]

1 minute ago, Johnny Torts said:

I put an edit in thank you 

OK, thanks I guess.  I don't think it means much.  Teams are always trying to improve and hockey broadcasts always need filler.  I wouldn't take it too seriously.  Trades can always happen but it's way too early to speculate with any accuracy.  GCG!

[Johnny Torts]

2 minutes ago, nux_win said:

OK, thanks I guess.  I don't think it means much.  Teams are always trying to improve and hockey broadcasts always need filler.  I wouldn't take it too seriously.  Trades can always happen but it's way too early to speculate with any accuracy.  GCG!

Yeah that’s what I was thinking. Besides the big OEL deal, we don’t have a lot of big deals weighing us down in re-signing the current core and picking up a player or 2 plus maybe some ELC’s and value contracts like Schenn.

[*Buzzsaw*]

You put in way too high a figure for Pettersson.

 

Unless he is putting up 90 points and 40 goals, he doesn't get 11 million.

 

He may be capable of that, but a lot of things could happen... like injuries.

 

I don't think Boeser gets 7 million either.

 

Podz gets signed for 2.5 or 3 million for a couple years to start.

[MrCanuck94]

Building a contender vs just icing a good team is a big difference.

 

Creating cap value is a tough process and we have a great management team in place for that now.

 

Management may not see certain players as fits moving forward as well.

[IBatch]

3 hours ago, *Buzzsaw* said:

You put in way too high a figure for Pettersson.

 

Unless he is putting up 90 points and 40 goals, he doesn't get 11 million.

 

He may be capable of that, but a lot of things could happen... like injuries.

 

I don't think Boeser gets 7 million either.

 

Podz gets signed for 2.5 or 3 million for a couple years to start.

This is true but he did say on the "high end".   Some could get more (Horvat)...so it does balance a little.   But agree that we'd probably have 4 million or more in cap space.   Which makes his/her point even more.    As long as none of those guys are duds for the next 4/5 years we'd have a pretty solid window to be a top team in what's right now a very tough top 4 division.    CAL has Johnny coming up to deal with ...  but should be good for a while yet.   Vegas will be much better next year unless injuries again screw them.   EDM also will be good next season.    LA is getting their re-tool hits in now as well.   Personally feel we are a better team then both LA and Dallas right now.    Being a top 3 team in this division is no small thing .... we've got a shot of being a top team though.   

[CanucksJay]

Before Boeser and Miller, we gotta move guys like Dickinson. 

Poolman is a consideration but we haven't seen him much this year. 

He's looked steady when playing but guys like Schenn and Burroughs (still don't know why we have Hunt over Burroughs playing) might make him expendable. 

Pearson is another question mark. He's had a seemingly good year and played similar amount to Boeser but Boeser in his really crappy year has still put up over 10 more points. I get that Boeser is in line to make twice the money Pearson does. Can Boeser ever develop his 2 way game to Tanner level?  I would put Brock on a 1 year deal, get him a skating coach, make him skip Da Beauty league in the summer and have him train his butt off.  The thing about hockey players and their salaries is that stats aren't always linear to salary. 

For example, would I rather have Mcdavid at 12.5 or 2 players making 6.25? I would take the best player which would be mcdavid. 

In the Canucks case though, what's better, 2 x 3.15m players or 1 Boeser? That's a tough call and it really depends on whether we are betting on Brock or not. 

Canucks Army brought up a good point. There is a reverse arbitration process which could bring Brock's salary down to 6.375 (85% of entitled QO)  That's what they did with Mason Raymond and that's what they should do here. 

My guess is that they are already talking to Boeser's camp regarding this. A 1 year show me deal at that figure is 100 percent worth it. 

 

https://canucksarmy.com/2022/04/11/monday-mailbag-exploring-reverse-arbitration-brock-boeser-fix-canucks-salary-cap-situation/

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[DrJockitch]

26 minutes ago, CanucksJay said:

Before Boeser and Miller, we gotta move guys like Dickinson. 

Poolman is a consideration but we haven't seen him much this year. 

He's looked steady when playing but guys like Schenn and Burroughs (still don't know why we have Hunt over Burroughs playing) might make him expendable. 

Pearson is another question mark. He's had a seemingly good year and played similar amount to Boeser but Boeser in his really crappy year has still put up over 10 more points. I get that Boeser is in line to make twice the money Pearson does. Can Boeser ever develop his 2 way game to Tanner level?  I would put Brock on a 1 year deal, get him a skating coach, make him skip Da Beauty league in the summer and have him train his butt off.  The thing about hockey players and their salaries is that stats aren't always linear to salary. 

For example, would I rather have Mcdavid at 12.5 or 2 players making 6.25? I would take the best player which would be mcdavid. 

In the Canucks case though, what's better, 2 x 3.15m players or 1 Boeser? That's a tough call and it really depends on whether we are betting on Brock or not. 

Canucks Army brought up a good point. There is a reverse arbitration process which could bring Brock's salary down to 6.375 (85% of entitled QO)  That's what they did with Mason Raymond and that's what they should do here. 

My guess is that they are already talking to Boeser's camp regarding this. A 1 year show me deal at that figure is 100 percent worth it. 

 

https://canucksarmy.com/2022/04/11/monday-mailbag-exploring-reverse-arbitration-brock-boeser-fix-canucks-salary-cap-situation/

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In regards to Pearson, not everything is points. Pearson brings a lot other than points.  He is the one top 9 forward that brings a consistent physical presence and goes to the net. He can be played in a matchup role as well.  Brock’s game is goals and not much else.

I would argue that Pearson has much greater value on his contract than Brock at his current deal of 5.8. 
We need more Pearsons.
There is room for a team to have a pure goal scorer that doesn’t add much else on a team but probably realistically only room for one and if they are going to make $6M+ they better be scoring more than 20G. 

[CanucksJay]

1 hour ago, DrJockitch said:

In regards to Pearson, not everything is points. Pearson brings a lot other than points.  He is the one top 9 forward that brings a consistent physical presence and goes to the net. He can be played in a matchup role as well.  Brock’s game is goals and not much else.

I would argue that Pearson has much greater value on his contract than Brock at his current deal of 5.8. 
We need more Pearsons.
There is room for a team to have a pure goal scorer that doesn’t add much else on a team but probably realistically only room for one and if they are going to make $6M+ they better be scoring more than 20G. 

I totally agree with you if we are talking based on this year alone. 

It would be a no brainer to take Pearson at half the price for a 10 point scoring differential + strong physical and dependable 2 way game. 

My question is, what is Brock actually capable of? This year is not his ceiling. The guy is 25. He's just getting into his prime. When did we get Miller for example? The guy was traded twice before he got to us. 

Is Boeser capable of improving his skating and 2 way game? 

He's been averaging approx 0.85 pts/game since coming in as a rookie. This year is clearly a setback at 0.64 pts. 

The concerning thing regarding Brock is 3 things. 

1) He's been stagnant at 0.89 pts / game or less since his rookie season which was 5 years ago. Is 0.9 pts/game / 73 pts his ceiling? 

2) Injury issues.  He's been injured every year. This will be the first  year he's played 70 games. 

3) skating and two way game. If we are building a fast skating team, he is not it. However, can speed throughout the line up create pockets for Boeser where he can find a spot and shoot/score? 

 

The problem is that Boeser is super likeable so it hurts to trade him. Fact of the matter is, the team did not miss a beat when Boeser was out. 

We see what losing a guy like Horvat has done to the team on the other hand. 

 

Boeser's agent did a really good job (or JB failed badly) that the QO is not worth it. If Canucks took Boeser to reverse arbitration, is he worth the 6.375?

 

Side note, miller's career numbers are like a poor man's version of Boeser. I think we got Millsy at 26 years old. Prior season to that, he put up 0.62pts / game in Tampa. His career until then was at best 0.7 pts / game. 

 

What I'm saying is that it might be too early to give up on Boeser. 

 

Really tough call but I think Canucks need to go to reverse arbitration and sign a 2 years 6.375 deal. 

 

 

 

Edited April 29, 2022 by CanucksJay

[Jester13]

I think Myers is on the way out. A right side of Schenn, Burroughs, Dermott, Poolman, etc is atrocious, but I think all of them play better defence than Myers anyways, so I don't see moving him out hurting us that much. 6m saved would do us wonders. 

[hammertime]

8 hours ago, *Buzzsaw* said:

You put in way too high a figure for Pettersson.

 

Unless he is putting up 90 points and 40 goals, he doesn't get 11 million.

 

He may be capable of that, but a lot of things could happen... like injuries.

 

I don't think Boeser gets 7 million either.

 

Podz gets signed for 2.5 or 3 million for a couple years to start.

90 points 11 mill still seems high.

 

Boeser get's to go play on another team for 7m

 

I think you're low on Pod he's got 2 more years on his elc we've seen how far he's come in his rookie season give him 2 more years and I think we'll be closer to 5-6m

[hammertime]

26 minutes ago, Jester13 said:

I think Myers is on the way out. A right side of Schenn, Burroughs, Dermott, Poolman, etc is atrocious, but I think all of them play better defence than Myers anyways, so I don't see moving him out hurting us that much. 6m saved would do us wonders. 

I think you'd be surprised at how big a hole it would create to trade Myers without replacing him which will cost more than 6m going by what D are getting these days. 

[Ballisticsports.]

Horvat and Boeser  making the same?

IMO Horvat provides much more to this team and centres are paid better than wingers and I don't think they are that close at all in pay, unless Horvat wants to retain a C and be a Canuck and signs for what Boeser gets (I know you said on high side which to me is not 7 but 6 for Boeser)

Edited April 29, 2022 by ba;;isticsports

[Zhukini]

Well it depends on what the goal is right? This team has glaring holes in the roster that need addressing. 

 

Is 4.8 enough to drastically improve enough to keep up with the Pacific? Vegas will be better, they just will, Anaheim will likely take a step as well. The Sharks are probably the only team I'd put money on being in the bottom 3rd of the league at the end of next year. 

 

The definition of insanity shouldn't be tested here. 

[-DLC-]

14 minutes ago, Zhukini said:

Well it depends on what the goal is right? This team has glaring holes in the roster that need addressing. 

 

Is 4.8 enough to drastically improve enough to keep up with the Pacific? Vegas will be better, they just will, Anaheim will likely take a step as well. The Sharks are probably the only team I'd put money on being in the bottom 3rd of the league at the end of next year. 

 

The definition of insanity shouldn't be tested here. 

You can't predict the future and Vegas "will be" is included in that. 

 

You're looking/talking on paper but it's so much more complex than that. Which is what Edmonton showed us over the years....we have a coach in place now who can get results out of this group, that's just been proven in how close they did come to squeaking in to playoffs they had no business even thinking about.

 

There aren't "glaring holes". There are ways we can improve for sure, but you ignore all that they have done and you've thought this team was trash from square one this season. I think you miss a whole lot of good stuff that happened being blinded by that. The team that started the year is much different than the one that finished it and they've learned a lot about themselves with Bruce a the helm. 

[rychicken]

52 minutes ago, -DLC- said:

You can't predict the future and Vegas "will be" is included in that. 

 

You're looking/talking on paper but it's so much more complex than that. Which is what Edmonton showed us over the years....we have a coach in place now who can get results out of this group, that's just been proven in how close they did come to squeaking in to playoffs they had no business even thinking about.

 

There aren't "glaring holes". There are ways we can improve for sure, but you ignore all that they have done and you've thought this team was trash from square one this season. I think you miss a whole lot of good stuff that happened being blinded by that. The team that started the year is much different than the one that finished it and they've learned a lot about themselves with Bruce a the helm. 

Would you mind sharing your thoughts please on what ways you feel the team can improve