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Nobody!  We have lived in cap hell for several seasons and now management is trying to figure out ways to create a little cap space.  Now what are people suggesting? Let’s spend what we saved and get right back in the same bleak situation again.  The notion that free agents are “free” is ridiculous.  Free agents frequently receive contracts that are inflated compared to the ability of the player and often the term is excessive, which means that an already bloated salary becomes an anchor towards the end of the contract.  Will any overpaid free agent with a long term contract make us a cup contender?  Surely not!  People have suggested that we offer free agents dollars and term which suits us.  The reality is that in a bidding war the price almost always exceeds what Canucks fans suggest with regard to terms and length.  It is one thing to say offer Domi a three year deal at 3 million per year, but the reality is that he will get offers for more money and term than posters suggest.

I think a far better way to spend any money that we have banked is to wait until teams find themselves strapped for cash near the beginning of the season and have to move decent players to become cap compliant.  That way you acquire players with a known salary and term and much of the crazy bidding is taken out of the equation.  Two examples of players which the Canucks acquired in this manner that come to mind are Nate Schmidt and Christian Erhoff.  There will be players available near the start of the season who will fill holes in our roster at reasonable rates with a manageable term.

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2 hours ago, nameci said:

Nobody!  We have lived in cap hell for several seasons and now management is trying to figure out ways to create a little cap space.  Now what are people suggesting? Let’s spend what we saved and get right back in the same bleak situation again.  The notion that free agents are “free” is ridiculous.  Free agents frequently receive contracts that are inflated compared to the ability of the player and often the term is excessive, which means that an already bloated salary becomes an anchor towards the end of the contract.  Will any overpaid free agent with a long term contract make us a cup contender?  Surely not!  People have suggested that we offer free agents dollars and term which suits us.  The reality is that in a bidding war the price almost always exceeds what Canucks fans suggest with regard to terms and length.  It is one thing to say offer Domi a three year deal at 3 million per year, but the reality is that he will get offers for more money and term than posters suggest.

I think a far better way to spend any money that we have banked is to wait until teams find themselves strapped for cash near the beginning of the season and have to move decent players to become cap compliant.  That way you acquire players with a known salary and term and much of the crazy bidding is taken out of the equation.  Two examples of players which the Canucks acquired in this manner that come to mind are Nate Schmidt and Christian Erhoff.  There will be players available near the start of the season who will fill holes in our roster at reasonable rates with a manageable term.

I'd say thats probably true sometimes, but every year, some teams are able to scoop up free agents at a great deal. Our problem is we had a management team for a long time that basically said analytics are unimportant, so they went after free agents that passed the eye test but had horrendous analytics. 

Remember that Tanev and Markstrom were picked up by Calgary via UFA, and those signings worked out pretty good. 

There are some potential good players available, the key is just not overpaying the bad ones. 

 

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I'd say we have big holes at RD in the future and 3C. We can live without a young tough RD to play with Hughes though - Myers, Dermott and Schenn can piece it together.

 

That 3C role is a big hole though. Lammikko just isn't good enough offensively to hold it down. Dickinson has been far to weak at faceoffs or defensively and is taking up over 2M in cap space to basically be a 3rd line winger who rarely scores and doesn't defend well.

 

I say we go out and sign Tierney, Paul, Jarnkrok or Janmark to a 3 year, 3.5M deal. No more than 4M.

 

Then we flip Dickinson and Poolman to literally anyone for picks. They still have value, especially to a bottom feeder, but we need an upgrade.

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Every team needs free agents.   There isn't a team in the league that doesn't use them.   Look at CAL lol.   Completely &^@#ed JB - bent him over and said thank you very much now they are a contender.    Markstrom at 6 x 6 ... part of that was just terrible timing with stupid Seattle.   At least we beat the crap out of them this year (Seattle).     Also kind of hope that Vancouver re-ignites the best rivalry we've ever had which was the 89-95 period against CAL.     We took over where the Oilers left off.  Two very tough and very deep and very skilled teams.  

 

Back to the now.   We are entering a phase where we have to pay up for guys in their prime and third deals.   Are you also saying we shouldn't re-sign Boeser, Miller, Horvat etc?    

Edited by IBatch
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IBatch, Trade Boeser, we would have to pay him far more than he is worth IMHO and trade Miller too because his contract will be an anchor several years down the road.  I think we have already missed the boat somewhat on Miller as we should have traded him at the deadline.  The team acquiring him at the deadline would have had his services for the remainder of this year’s regular season, this year’s playoffs and all of next season.  The fact that any team we trade him to now will only have his services for next season will probably greatly reduce the quality and quantity of the return we receive.

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Can't say I agree, I think there are some players of interest and if we position ourselves with offloading some salary we might be able to take advantage on some team friendly deals. 

 

I'm interested in the following: 

 

Bergeron 

Kuzmenko

Mason Marchment

Noel Acciari 

Nichushkin

Mikheyev 

Evan Rodriguez

 

Not big on any of the D that are available, other than Letang (but that's not gonna happen). 

 

Deals should be focused on 1-3 year term, no long term deals, except personally I'd be open to a long term deal with Marchment. 

 

 

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On 5/2/2022 at 9:25 PM, nameci said:

Nobody!  We have lived in cap hell for several seasons and now management is trying to figure out ways to create a little cap space.  Now what are people suggesting? Let’s spend what we saved and get right back in the same bleak situation again.  The notion that free agents are “free” is ridiculous.  Free agents frequently receive contracts that are inflated compared to the ability of the player and often the term is excessive, which means that an already bloated salary becomes an anchor towards the end of the contract.  Will any overpaid free agent with a long term contract make us a cup contender?  Surely not!  People have suggested that we offer free agents dollars and term which suits us.  The reality is that in a bidding war the price almost always exceeds what Canucks fans suggest with regard to terms and length.  It is one thing to say offer Domi a three year deal at 3 million per year, but the reality is that he will get offers for more money and term than posters suggest.

I think a far better way to spend any money that we have banked is to wait until teams find themselves strapped for cash near the beginning of the season and have to move decent players to become cap compliant.  That way you acquire players with a known salary and term and much of the crazy bidding is taken out of the equation.  Two examples of players which the Canucks acquired in this manner that come to mind are Nate Schmidt and Christian Erhoff.  There will be players available near the start of the season who will fill holes in our roster at reasonable rates with a manageable term.

I totally agree with not overpaying for ufas.

I'd rather see that money being invested in our own, properly developed players.

Long-term success is achieved through the draft and proper development of those prospects. 

This team has become far too dependent on immediate impact and has lost touch with the fact that most prospects do not make the NHL for a few years and that having a deep prospect pool is vitally important to any NHL team. 

If this team were properly built, it would be our own drafted players getting paid, not imports.

I firmly believe that only depth players should free agent considerations or trade possibilities, not as core players. Our core should be entirely drafted and developed from within. Care must be taken not to overpay in such situations.

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1 hour ago, KKnight said:

Can't say I agree, I think there are some players of interest and if we position ourselves with offloading some salary we might be able to take advantage on some team friendly deals. 

 

I'm interested in the following: 

 

Bergeron 

Kuzmenko

Mason Marchment

Noel Acciari 

Nichushkin

Mikheyev 

Evan Rodriguez

 

Not big on any of the D that are available, other than Letang (but that's not gonna happen). 

 

Deals should be focused on 1-3 year term, no long term deals, except personally I'd be open to a long term deal with Marchment. 

 

 

I agree with you. It's silly to have a rule that says "No UFAs". Literally every successful team has pulled in some pieces from UFA. The fact that calgary was able to pick up Markstrom and Tanev in UFA says it all. 

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42 minutes ago, komodo0921 said:

I totally agree with not overpaying for ufas.

I'd rather see that money being invested in our own, properly developed players.

Long-term success is achieved through the draft and proper development of those prospects. 

This team has become far too dependent on immediate impact and has lost touch with the fact that most prospects do not make the NHL for a few years and that having a deep prospect pool is vitally important to any NHL team. 

If this team were properly built, it would be our own drafted players getting paid, not imports.

I firmly believe that only depth players should free agent considerations or trade possibilities, not as core players. Our core should be entirely drafted and developed from within. Care must be taken not to overpay in such situations.

 

3 minutes ago, eeeeergh said:

I agree with you. It's silly to have a rule that says "No UFAs". Literally every successful team has pulled in some pieces from UFA. The fact that calgary was able to pick up Markstrom and Tanev in UFA says it all. 

I'll go more specific, core forwards should be found by drafting and developing them. 

 

When we look at UFAs, they tend to be in their late 20s or early 30s.  With goalies and defencemen usually peaking later in their careers, I don't have a lot of issue finding them via UFA.  We see that plain as day with Tanev and Markstrom. 

 

With forwards, I find that middle 6 forwards are the best bang for the buck.  They're guys that you usually don't have to overpay for as their production isn't too crazy, and they could end up finding another gear to get into a Top 6 role.  So 3rd liners and/or lower tier 2nd liners would be ok with me.

 

I don't like finding bottom 6 guys via UFA either unless they come cheap (under $2M).  4th lines could and should be able to be built from within or from minor trades.  No reason to be paying $2M or $3M for a 4th line centre......

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5 minutes ago, HKSR said:

 

I'll go more specific, core forwards should be found by drafting and developing them. 

 

When we look at UFAs, they tend to be in their late 20s or early 30s.  With goalies and defencemen usually peaking later in their careers, I don't have a lot of issue finding them via UFA.  We see that plain as day with Tanev and Markstrom. 

 

With forwards, I find that middle 6 forwards are the best bang for the buck.  They're guys that you usually don't have to overpay for as their production isn't too crazy, and they could end up finding another gear to get into a Top 6 role.  So 3rd liners and/or lower tier 2nd liners would be ok with me.

 

I don't like finding bottom 6 guys via UFA either unless they come cheap (under $2M).  4th lines could and should be able to be built from within or from minor trades.  No reason to be paying $2M or $3M for a 4th line centre......

Yeah, I agree with you. I think reliable top-4 defensemen are also a good bet from UFA - it usually takes several years of development before a defenseman is ready to play a leading role, and you usually have to pay a premium for the good ones after their ELCs are done anyway. 

I don't think we should be shopping for forwards from UFA this offseason (we're pretty set, especially with Podkolzin taking steps forward, Lockwood looking good, and Karlsson joining the team), unless we trade someone away from our top-6. But we should be looking for a defenseman to play in the top 4. 

Edited by eeeeergh
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15 minutes ago, eeeeergh said:

I agree with you. It's silly to have a rule that says "No UFAs". Literally every successful team has pulled in some pieces from UFA. The fact that calgary was able to pick up Markstrom and Tanev in UFA says it all. 

Well hypothetically let's sat we traded Miller and secured - Schneider, cuylle or Kravstov and a 1st. Traded Myers for a draft pick. Trade Dickinson with 25% retention for a pick. Signed Boeser to basically the same contract with 2-3 year term and gained nearly 10 million dollars in cap space, on top of the 14 million were about to have. 

 

1. Sign Horvat for 6 5-7 over 6-7 years. 

2. Throw money at Bergeron - 8 million per for 2 years. 

3. Marchment - 3.5-4 over 3 years. 

4. Acciari - 2 million for 1 year 

5. Sign Kuzmenko.

6. Depth defender on the left side. 

 

Hoglander - Pete - Boeser 

Marchment - Bergeron - Garland

Kuzmenko - Horvat - Podklozin

Lammikko - Acciari - Lockwood

 

Ex.Highmore

 

I like the depth of that forward group and it doesn't cripple us going forward. 

 

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56 minutes ago, KKnight said:

Well hypothetically let's sat we traded Miller and secured - Schneider, cuylle or Kravstov and a 1st. Traded Myers for a draft pick. Trade Dickinson with 25% retention for a pick. Signed Boeser to basically the same contract with 2-3 year term and gained nearly 10 million dollars in cap space, on top of the 14 million were about to have. 

 

1. Sign Horvat for 6 5-7 over 6-7 years. 

2. Throw money at Bergeron - 8 million per for 2 years. 

3. Marchment - 3.5-4 over 3 years. 

4. Acciari - 2 million for 1 year 

5. Sign Kuzmenko.

6. Depth defender on the left side. 

 

Hoglander - Pete - Boeser 

Marchment - Bergeron - Garland

Kuzmenko - Horvat - Podklozin

Lammikko - Acciari - Lockwood

 

Ex.Highmore

 

I like the depth of that forward group and it doesn't cripple us going forward. 

 

I dont see Bergeron leaving Boston. He's played there his entire career, and made an unbelievable amount of money already. 

Marchment is going to get more than 4, most likely. 

I like Acciari as a pk specialist, 2m is a bit high. 

Kuzmenko would be great.

Rangers are apparently unwilling to consider a deal that includes Schneider. 

I don't see the issue paying Miller what he's worth for the next 6 years. He's probably going to decline in the final 2 years, but our contention window is going to be sometime in the next 4 years anyway, while Demko is cheap and in his prime. 

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On 5/3/2022 at 7:47 AM, IBatch said:

Every team needs free agents.   There isn't a team in the league that doesn't use them.   Look at CAL lol.   Completely &^@#ed JB - bent him over and said thank you very much now they are a contender.    Markstrom at 6 x 6 ... part of that was just terrible timing with stupid Seattle.   At least we beat the crap out of them this year (Seattle).     Also kind of hope that Vancouver re-ignites the best rivalry we've ever had which was the 89-95 period against CAL.     We took over where the Oilers left off.  Two very tough and very deep and very skilled teams.  

 

Back to the now.   We are entering a phase where we have to pay up for guys in their prime and third deals.   Are you also saying we shouldn't re-sign Boeser, Miller, Horvat etc?    

That was kind of more terrible timing to be making the playoffs. Markstrom was a top 3 goalie in the league at that time and we were set to make the playoffs. Demko was good but that season Markstrom was better. Also can’t trade Tanev as he was our number 2 dman at the time logging some very big and important minutes. Had we missed the playoffs that year we’d have cashed in a 1rst plus for each those guys. Instead they walk for free which sucks. Seems to always happen that way for the Canucks. Nothing ever seems to really align and speed up the process of putting together a contender.

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UFA signings are almost always inflated.  All these pro scouts and asst GMs need to

make their $ and find players that had a couple of down seasons (on bad teams) and

could very well improve their stats on a better team.    Get some of those low risk

high reward and low $ guys.  Start with Colin Miller please.

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On 5/3/2022 at 11:13 AM, nameci said:

IBatch, Trade Boeser, we would have to pay him far more than he is worth IMHO and trade Miller too because his contract will be an anchor several years down the road.  I think we have already missed the boat somewhat on Miller as we should have traded him at the deadline.  The team acquiring him at the deadline would have had his services for the remainder of this year’s regular season, this year’s playoffs and all of next season.  The fact that any team we trade him to now will only have his services for next season will probably greatly reduce the quality and quantity of the return we receive.

Trading Brock is a possibility for sure.  Miller isn't a card you play unless it's actually going to have more value then you'd get keeping him for this seasons play and possibly the playoffs (and weighing that against his replacement - what that will cost - and so many other factors like this cores window).    Miller isn't a replaceable asset on the free agent market that wouldn't put you in the exact same position.   And the team has many advantages over a new player (which factually doesn't even exist, this year or next).    I'm certain IF the value was better this TDL we'd have seen Miller traded.   It wasn't.   We will also see his stock rise during next season ... not decrease.    I'm pretty sure he's going to do the same things again.   Or at least keep in that PPG plus range.    What your suggesting is a re-set of the rebuild.   I'm not opposed to that entirely, actually feel we either need to trim some fat off and go with what we've already got OR just accept 2-3 more years and risk losing any sort of window we have with our core guys on their second deals below Horvat.    If only it were that simple.   With 32 teams you only get so many chances.    This team might see ONE of the Horvat/Miller/Brock go as a happy middle point - but am pretty sure that's not happening this off season other then Brock which is selling low but still 50/50.  If the wheels fall off (doubt it - but a possibility)  then Brock and Miller are surely gone at the TDL.   Miller didn't get an offer Allvin liked - and from what i read from teams that wanted him - i don't blame him at all.    What would they be willing to give if he had another 100 point pace season?    Or even 90?   At least as much.    Don't play your cards just because you have them until the timing is right.   Who knows maybe we are a 115 point team next year ... Podz and EP killing it would of that with all the rest remaining the same (including Brock scoring his first of possibly many 30 goal seasons still). 

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Here's my wishlist that somewhat makes sense:

 

Plan A (without major additions/subtractions): 

- Sign up Kuzmenko & Karlsson

- Sign Deslauriers who can provide size & toughness that's been missing for so damn long!

- Sign Zadorov to replace Hunt

 

Plan B (time for real revamp!):

- Trade Boeser, Myers and Pearson for picks and to free up cap space to extend Miller & Horvat

- Sign up Kuzmenko & Karlsson

- Sign Deslauriers who can provide size & toughness that's been missing for so damn long!

- Sign Burakovsky who's a scoring power forward that's also been missing for so damn long!

- Sign Maata and/or Zadorov

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When people on this site talk about signing UFAs to improve our team I get it.  I want the team to be successful just like the rest of you do.  People mention that Calgary scooped up Markstrom and Tanev and it’s true that has worked out well for Calgary.  But why did we lose them, we couldn’t afford to resign them because we were cash strapped after signing useless UFAs over the years.  And for every UFA success story you can provide, it is possible to provide two examples where the UFA  turned out to be a dismal failure (like most of our free agents beginning with Loui Erickson).   I want to bring in players to fill our positional needs just like the rest of you do.   I just don’t want to get involved in the Free Agent Frenzy.  I don’t want the team to get involved in bidding wars for players and pay them too much money over too long a term.  There is another way.   As teams get to training camp and are desperate to get cap compliant, if we have money in the bank, I think we will be able to acquire the players we need by simply assuming their contracts at bargain basement prices from teams needing to shed salary.  You acquire players with term without having to overpay for them.

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Looking at the Dermott acquisition, I think this new management is much smarter with their cap spending than JB was so I doubt we'll see anymore NMC, 6M x 6 year sort of JB-type deals.

 

If there are budget deals to be had and players we can buy low on then I think management will go for it, especially if/when we move cap out which I think JR was hinting at.

 

What I'd like to see happen:

- Move Dickinson, Poolman out - save around 5M in cap right there

- Sign someone cheap like Tierney, Paul, Janmark or Jarnkrok to a 3y x 3M deal (especially Tierney who had an off-year, could be had cheaply)

- If there's a forward trade for a young RHD go for it but I doubt this is going to happen and there aren't many decent RDs in the UFA list this upcoming year. Manson has been brutal defensively on a very good Avalanche team so I really don't want him playing with Hughes and Lybushkin isn't worth the time.

 

What I think will happen:

- Not much.

- Based on their presser, I wonder if they're really going to try to revamp this defence and get rid of Myers. Saying they want it more mobile is interesting...they'll probably try and get Rathbone playing a lot more, but I worry they're going to cap-dump Myers who was very steady last year (IMO) and we already lack RHDs.

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