Glass half full. (Discussion)

[hammertime]

I'm actually pretty optimistic about our prospect pool. 

 

Mark my words. Klimovich and Arshdeep are going to absolutely shred for Abby next year. These kid's are gamers and are exactly the kind of personalities we need to be inserting into our line up. I can't wait to see them earn their call ups.

 

IMO I think we already have our Right Shot 3C I think JB........................  Got this one right! Linus Karlsson..... I've gone back and watched a a bunch of him. Completely ignoring the points I am incredibly impressed with his 200ft game. He's great in all 3 zones and somewhat reminds me offensively of Michael Samuelsson. I'm very excited to see him get a chance next year. 

 

Defense I think were sleeping on Rathbone..... Well most of us aren't but MGMT seems to be. I worry he will be a toss in on trade and we'll look a gift horse in the mouth.  

 

Lockwood boy I love this kid's devotion. He plays soooo hard somehow he needs to find a way to maintain his intensity without spending half the season in the infirmary.

 

I guess what I'm saying is we've crossed the barrier..... We don't need bottom 6 vet's like Beagle, Sutter, Roussel, Dickinson, to some extent Pearson to shelter the developing Pete, Bo, Boeser, Pod, Hog. What we need is hunger and energy from a youthful cockey bottom 6 with something to prove. It's time that our top 6 prove their mettle and start burying teams in hard matchups. We need to take the next step.... It's time for the kids to make this their team! Looking at Pete and Bo......

 

With that being said I think with respect to Brock we try to make a deal there.... We can't be paying more than 4.75 for what he does. So it's kinda a non starter if we can't make a deal to send him somewhere in the Minni region STL/CHI/COL/CBJ/Nash or we do the right thing, shake hands and hope that he finds a fit in free agency anything over 5m is prohibitive to us making the deal IMO. 

 

I think we should spend the money we were hoping to spend on Brock 6-7m on Nichushkin who does all of the stuff Brock doesn't. Maybe he isn't a 30 goal scorer but he win's games and brings hard play consistently. If we are goin to ask our top 6 to play hard mins we need to give them the tool's to win those matchups.

 

I say we go into next season with.

 

Miller Pete Podkolzin 

Nich Bo Garland (5V5)

Hog Karlsson Pearsson (Utility)

Abby call up Lammiko Lockwood/Pest (Energy)

 

Hughes Schenn

OEL Myers 

Rathbone/Dermott Burr 

 

I'd leave the D alone and look to the future through the draft (Bichsel/Lamoureux) for a stabilizing big minute big nasty D to slot in when Myers contract expires.  

 

Demko/Martin 

 

I think we do playoff damage with this lineup. 

 

 

[BigTramFan]

I like the positivity on our prospects! Really want to see them do well. 

 

I love the idea of adding Nich. He isn't a 30 goal scorer, but neither is Boeser. Both those guys have been "on pace" to score more than 30 in a season, but neither have actually done it.

 

The one thing that lineup lacks is some decent grit/size/fighting ability in the bottom 6. We can't just keep leaving it to Schenn to take on tough teams all on his own (and end up with a Dman in the box). We need some forwards that will stand up for their team mates.

 

EDIT: That lineup you posted gives us about $8.5m in cap space with 21 players signed (Dickie and Poolman in AHL). I assume we would add an 8th Dman such as Juulsen for $800k-ish. So $7.7m cap left with only a 13th forward to add. Would be very tempting to make that player someone who adds center depth and has some toughness. Maybe Nick Paul or some cheaper options like Johan Larsson, Riley Sheahan, etc

Edited May 6, 2022 by BigTramFan

[eeeeergh]

1 hour ago, hammertime said:

I'm actually pretty optimistic about our prospect pool. 

 

Mark my words. Klimovich and Arshdeep are going to absolutely shred for Abby next year. These kid's are gamers and are exactly the kind of personalities we need to be inserting into our line up. I can't wait to see them earn their call ups.

 

IMO I think we already have our Right Shot 3C I think JB........................  Got this one right! Linus Karlsson..... I've gone back and watched a a bunch of him. Completely ignoring the points I am incredibly impressed with his 200ft game. He's great in all 3 zones and somewhat reminds me offensively of Michael Samuelsson. I'm very excited to see him get a chance next year. 

 

Defense I think were sleeping on Rathbone..... Well most of us aren't but MGMT seems to be. I worry he will be a toss in on trade and we'll look a gift horse in the mouth.  

 

Lockwood boy I love this kid's devotion. He plays soooo hard somehow he needs to find a way to maintain his intensity without spending half the season in the infirmary.

 

I guess what I'm saying is we've crossed the barrier..... We don't need bottom 6 vet's like Beagle, Sutter, Roussel, Dickinson, to some extent Pearson to shelter the developing Pete, Bo, Boeser, Pod, Hog. What we need is hunger and energy from a youthful cockey bottom 6 with something to prove. It's time that our top 6 prove their mettle and start burying teams in hard matchups. We need to take the next step.... It's time for the kids to make this their team! Looking at Pete and Bo......

 

With that being said I think with respect to Brock we try to make a deal there.... We can't be paying more than 4.75 for what he does. So it's kinda a non starter if we can't make a deal to send him somewhere in the Minni region STL/CHI/COL/CBJ/Nash or we do the right thing, shake hands and hope that he finds a fit in free agency anything over 5m is prohibitive to us making the deal IMO. 

 

I think we should spend the money we were hoping to spend on Brock 6-7m on Nichushkin who does all of the stuff Brock doesn't. Maybe he isn't a 30 goal scorer but he win's games and brings hard play consistently. If we are goin to ask our top 6 to play hard mins we need to give them the tool's to win those matchups.

 

I say we go into next season with.

 

Miller Pete Podkolzin 

Nich Bo Garland (5V5)

Hog Karlsson Pearsson (Utility)

Abby call up Lammiko Lockwood/Pest (Energy)

 

Hughes Schenn

OEL Myers 

Rathbone/Dermott Burr 

 

I'd leave the D alone and look to the future through the draft (Bichsel/Lamoureux) for a stabilizing big minute big nasty D to slot in when Myers contract expires.  

 

Demko/Martin 

 

I think we do playoff damage with this lineup. 

 

 

We can't go into next season with Hughes playing alongside Schenn, or Myers holding OEL back. Something's got to change there. 

[BigTramFan]

50 minutes ago, eeeeergh said:

We can't go into next season with Hughes playing alongside Schenn, or Myers holding OEL back. Something's got to change there. 

I think our defense will take a bit longer than 1 off season to sort out, so I am ok with a similar D lineup to this season

Edited May 6, 2022 by BigTramFan

[Nuxfanabroad]

Appear to be advocating we stay high with our homegrown supply..it's pretty hard to argue, would have to say.

[hammertime]

7 hours ago, eeeeergh said:

We can't go into next season with Hughes playing alongside Schenn, or Myers holding OEL back. Something's got to change there. 

Agree to disagree. I like Myers dispite the occasional mental gaffe he would be much harder to replace than you think and we shouldn't be throwing money at guys like Manson just compounding the problem. Plan for succession.  

[canucklehead44]

15 minutes ago, hammertime said:

Agree to disagree. I like Myers dispite the occasional mental gaffe he would be much harder to replace than you think and we shouldn't be throwing money at guys like Manson just compounding the problem. Plan for succession.  

I am thinking it makes sense to move Boeser for a RHD like Marino and then moving Myers in a cap dump

[Nucker 67]

There isn't much in the Abby prospect pool, but you have a good point about Karlsson, and maybe there's more. 

 

Lockwood

Rathbone

Klimovich

Woo

Bains

Karlsson

McDonough

Jurmo

 

I'm hoping these guys can make a real run at a spot on the Canucks one day. 

 

I also think Granato and Clancey are working hard on finding the gems in the Euro and college leagues.  Would be wonderful if they could snag Kuzmenko, and maybe Jake Livingstone. 

[Zhukini]

If this was a 3 team league we’d have a good prospect pool. Unfortunately it’s not and we don’t, in comparison to most other teams. 
 

 

[nameci]

I am not a big fan of signing UFAs, but I do see your point in trying to sign Nikushkin if we are not paying Brock’s salary next season.

[Angry Goose]

I was hoping for bigger strides from Carson Focht-thought he had potential to become a good 4th line NHL C. Hopefully this year was still a good learning experience for him.  

[DownUndaCanuck]

Honestly compared to other teams, our cupboards are bare. For me we have to try and work Rathbone into the fold though - he's a hidden gem who's being wasted in the AHL. Point-per-game smooth skating defenceman and JR has said publicly that we're one of the worst break-out teams in the league. I think that's a bit harsh because we've been moving the puck up ice quite nicely with Hughes, OEL and Myers and even Schenn has gotten a lot better at it, but that's what he seens.

 

In that case, I'm not sure who the odd-man out will be. I think Dermott has played brilliantly for us so deserves a top-6 spot. Schenn cannot be moved, simple. Personally I'd rather see OEL and Myers split up, but Bruce really likes playing them as a shutdown pair which seems to work well and steady our defence on the whole.

 

Burroughs and especially Hunt don't deserve a roster spot over Rathbone. 

 

Here's what I'd like to see to start next year/training camp (assuming we don't acquire any defencemen):

 

Hughes - Schenn

OEL - Dermott

Rathbone - Myers

Burroughs

 

Here's what I think we'll see:

 

Hughes - Schenn

OEL - Myers

Dermott - Hunt

[Smashian Kassian]

I never would've thought Karlsson could be anything, but it looks like he could be a legit bottom 6 NHLer (on a good team).

 

Hopefully he signs without a hitch, & shows well next year in NA. 

[hammertime]

On 5/5/2022 at 11:33 PM, eeeeergh said:

We can't go into next season with Hughes playing alongside Schenn, or Myers holding OEL back. Something's got to change there. 

Um yes we can. What we need to do is fix the future not the present. OEL Myers are an effective 2nd pairing. As good or better than most 2nd pairings in the league. I know you have a hate boner for Myers but I think youre holding mentally onto a few bad plays (OT dump in, bad pinch, missed assignment) and not really appreciating the player as a whole (Edler Syndrome). I won't argue Myers with you it's a waste of energy. Hughes Schenn this is great it's fire and ice. We could be paying 7-8m for a D partner for Hughes and only marginally improve that pairing's effectiveness. Enjoy it while it lasts our 1st pairing costs less than most teams 2nd pairing and is twice as effective. What we need is not a defense overhaul but a forward group that plays cohesively with better team systems. Look at Calgary's D are they elite? Yet they manage to hold us shotless through 2 periods. I'm not saying we need to go full Sutter hockey but we do need the forward group to contribute more defensively. 

 

7 hours ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

Honestly compared to other teams, our cupboards are bare.

I think you're looking at it wrong. We have a youthful top 6 group. It's not the end of the world that we don't have an upcoming super star in the minors sure one would be a luxury. But it's not as though our team is about to age out. What we need to be getting from our prospect pool are bottom 6 guys who can stop the hemoraging cap on grinders. We need Karlsson, Bains, Klim, Lockwood etc to end the era of Dickinsons. I have faith that they will. 

 

On 5/6/2022 at 7:05 AM, canucklehead44 said:

I am thinking it makes sense to move Boeser for a RHD like Marino.

  Have to think if something like that was on the table it would have been done by now. 

 

On 5/5/2022 at 10:29 PM, BigTramFan said:

EDIT: That lineup you posted gives us about $8.5m in cap space with 21 players signed (Dickie and Poolman in AHL). I assume we would add an 8th Dman such as Juulsen for $800k-ish. So $7.7m cap left with only a 13th forward to add. Would be very tempting to make that player someone who adds center depth and has some toughness. Maybe Nick Paul or some cheaper options like Johan Larsson, Riley Sheahan, etc

Potential Playoff rental? IMO we should be planning for Bo Millers next contracts if we end up too far apart on Miller we will need the cap space to trade for a top 6 player.  

[lmm]

On 5/5/2022 at 10:18 PM, hammertime said:

I'm actually pretty optimistic about our prospect pool. 

 

Mark my words. Klimovich and Arshdeep are going to absolutely shred for Abby next year. These kid's are gamers and are exactly the kind of personalities we need to be inserting into our line up. I can't wait to see them earn their call ups.

 

IMO I think we already have our Right Shot 3C I think JB........................  Got this one right! Linus Karlsson..... I've gone back and watched a a bunch of him. Completely ignoring the points I am incredibly impressed with his 200ft game. He's great in all 3 zones and somewhat reminds me offensively of Michael Samuelsson. I'm very excited to see him get a chance next year. 

 

Defense I think were sleeping on Rathbone..... Well most of us aren't but MGMT seems to be. I worry he will be a toss in on trade and we'll look a gift horse in the mouth.  

 

Lockwood boy I love this kid's devotion. He plays soooo hard somehow he needs to find a way to maintain his intensity without spending half the season in the infirmary.

 

I guess what I'm saying is we've crossed the barrier..... We don't need bottom 6 vet's like Beagle, Sutter, Roussel, Dickinson, to some extent Pearson to shelter the developing Pete, Bo, Boeser, Pod, Hog. What we need is hunger and energy from a youthful cockey bottom 6 with something to prove. It's time that our top 6 prove their mettle and start burying teams in hard matchups. We need to take the next step.... It's time for the kids to make this their team! Looking at Pete and Bo......

 

With that being said I think with respect to Brock we try to make a deal there.... We can't be paying more than 4.75 for what he does. So it's kinda a non starter if we can't make a deal to send him somewhere in the Minni region STL/CHI/COL/CBJ/Nash or we do the right thing, shake hands and hope that he finds a fit in free agency anything over 5m is prohibitive to us making the deal IMO. 

 

I think we should spend the money we were hoping to spend on Brock 6-7m on Nichushkin who does all of the stuff Brock doesn't. Maybe he isn't a 30 goal scorer but he win's games and brings hard play consistently. If we are goin to ask our top 6 to play hard mins we need to give them the tool's to win those matchups.

 

I say we go into next season with.

 

Miller Pete Podkolzin 

Nich Bo Garland (5V5)

Hog Karlsson Pearsson (Utility)

Abby call up Lammiko Lockwood/Pest (Energy)

 

Hughes Schenn

OEL Myers 

Rathbone/Dermott Burr 

 

I'd leave the D alone and look to the future through the draft (Bichsel/Lamoureux) for a stabilizing big minute big nasty D to slot in when Myers contract expires.  

 

Demko/Martin 

 

I think we do playoff damage with this lineup. 

 

 

How do you figure that?

Rathbone played 9 games with the big club and was -5

that works out to about -45 on a full season

He looked beat when he was mercifully sent down

He played well in Abby, matching his Harvard points from 2019-20

Rathbone has done NOTHING to show he is an NHL defenseman

He has not scored at a Quinn Hughes rate in the NHL

 

And I am not down on Jack Rathbone,

but what is it about Canuck fans that they think every prospect that is not playing in the NHL is being waisted?

 

edity

now if he is playing 4th line wing next year, I'll agree he is being waisted

Edited May 7, 2022 by lmm

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, lmm said:

How do you figure that?

Rathbone played 9 games with the big club and was -5

that works out to about -45 on a full season

He looked beat when he was mercifully sent down

He played well in Abby, matching his Harvard points from 2019-20

Rathbone has done NOTHING to show he is an NHL defenseman

He has not scored at a Quinn Hughes rate in the NHL

 

And I am not down on Jack Rathbone,

but what is it about Canuck fans that they think every prospect that is not playing in the NHL is being waisted?

Aren’t you one of us, Canuck fans?  

All teams’ fans (especially ones at the bottom, like us) are hoping for a better future, so of course we are going to be high on our youngest players.  Only other teams’ fans would want our guys to fail.  

[lmm]

1 minute ago, Alflives said:

Aren’t you one of us, Canuck fans?  

All teams’ fans (especially ones at the bottom, like us) are hoping for a better future, so of course we are going to be high on our youngest players.  Only other teams’ fans would want our guys to fail.  

well, I am one of us in that I spend too much time here when I could be contributing to society in useful ways

 

But I am not one of us in that I think player development is a good thing

 

Jack Rathbone looked like a kid in way over his head when he got sent down last season

and the Canucks have a really long history of expecting the kids to play above they maturity level

Look at Zack Kassian doing exactly what Vancouver wanted him to do 9 years ago

and Jake and Guber and Benny the Hutt and Hoglander and Gaudette

and people complained about Petey last year

and look at Connor Mc D playing physical hockey at 25 years of age

 

Jack Rathbone is not a 1st round pick

he has some holes in his game

he is not being wasted in the minors

he is learning his craft,

he is developing physically

and emotionally

 

I think Rathbone will be fine

I just don't think he is being "Wasted" because he is performing well in his first full season as a pro but not playing on the big club

[Alflives]

7 minutes ago, lmm said:

well, I am one of us in that I spend too much time here when I could be contributing to society in useful ways

 

But I am not one of us in that I think player development is a good thing

 

Jack Rathbone looked like a kid in way over his head when he got sent down last season

and the Canucks have a really long history of expecting the kids to play above they maturity level

Look at Zack Kassian doing exactly what Vancouver wanted him to do 9 years ago

and Jake and Guber and Benny the Hutt and Hoglander and Gaudette

and people complained about Petey last year

and look at Connor Mc D playing physical hockey at 25 years of age

 

Jack Rathbone is not a 1st round pick

he has some holes in his game

he is not being wasted in the minors

he is learning his craft,

he is developing physically

and emotionally

 

I think Rathbone will be fine

I just don't think he is being "Wasted" because he is performing well in his first full season as a pro but not playing on the big club

Sounds like you have other teams you cheer for.  That’s fine, of course, but your views will be different of our youngest hopefuls than a 100% all in on our team fan.  To us 109% all in on this team and only this team fans we see the upside in our young guys, and not the warts.  Even Klimovich, who is clearly a project, we all in fans see a guy who has the size and skills to be Pastrnak.  

[lmm]

14 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Sounds like you have other teams you cheer for.  That’s fine, of course, but your views will be different of our youngest hopefuls than a 100% all in on our team fan.  To us 109% all in on this team and only this team fans we see the upside in our young guys, and not the warts.  Even Klimovich, who is clearly a project, we all in fans see a guy who has the size and skills to be Pastrnak.  

So because you and your ilk lack a 200 foot game

you think you know better how to run a team

the Canucks are not the only team in the league with a minor league (AHL) team

all teams have them

but you cannot see warts or the need for development

no wonder you liked the old Jim so much

 

And I do have other teams I cheer for, none more than the Canucks though

I am cheering for Calgary right now

do I care that you think that is a crime against humanity?

no

I do not cheer for other teams to fail

well, except Vegas

I don't cheer for other teams to fail in our division so Vancouver can squeek into the playoffs

I want the Canucks to be dominant

I want the Canucks to be a dynasty

I hope some of the player that are here now will be part of that, but in that they are not there yet I do not hope for failure around the league so I , and you, can pretend the team is better than it is.

when, if, their time comes I hope it is because the team is stacked with stars

not because the rest of the division is the weakest in the league

I would be happy if the Canucks and the OILERs and the FlAmEs were all top of the league (then we'd have a rivalry) and beating the Leafs and the Habs for the cup for a decade

Ya, I'm not like you

Edited May 7, 2022 by lmm

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, lmm said:

So because you and your ilk lack a 200 foot game

you think you know better how to run a team

the Canucks are not the only team in the league with a minor league (AHL) team

all teams have them

but you cannot see warts or the need for development

no wonder you liked the old Jim so much

 

And I do have other teams I cheer for, none more than the Canucks though

I am cheering for Calgary right now

do I care that you think that is a crime against humanity?

no

I do not cheer for other teams to fail

well, except Vegas

I don't cheer for other teams to fail in our division so Vancouver can squeek into the playoffs

I want the Canucks to be dominant

I want the Canucks to be a dynasty

I hope some of the player that are here now will be part of that, but in that they are not there yet I do not hope for failure around the league so I , and you, can pretend the team is better than it is.

when, if, their time comes I hope it is because the team is stacked with stars

not because the rest of the division is the weakest in the league

I would be happy if the Canucks and the OILERs and the FlAmEs were all top of the league and beating the Leafs and the Habs for the cup for a decade

Ya, I'm not like you

Thread title is “glass half full” not half empty.  

Like I said already, those fans who only cheer for us will see our younger players differently than fan like yourself who cheer for several teams.  You guys have backup teams.  If one is doing bad you just switch.  That’s A-okay for you guys.  Us 100% fans will hope (glass half full) our young guys reach a ceiling that is beyond reason.  That’s Okay too.  Heck if Benning didn’t stew us up so bad by trading away so many picks maybe we’d have a lot more young guys so the glass would be 3/4ths full?