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[Report] Canucks fire 5 amateur scouts

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26 minutes ago, DSVII said:

Guess who was AGM of the flames during that time that hired him as the scout? That worked with Jim as a scout in Boston?

 

John Weisbrod AGM of the Flames. (June 2011-Dec 2013)

Brandon Benning as a Flames Scout (Nov 2011 - Aug 2014)

 

Did not even last a year after Weisbrod was fired by the Flames.

 

John Weisbrod then becomes our AGM, and he hired Brandon again.

 

The Flames drafting under that regime (flubbing 2 of 3 first round picks in 2013!)

image.thumb.png.0097eb9ad46df0268219fe26084dbcc8.png

 

Prior experience before the Flames as per his linkedin, an office assistant. Combined with a non-existant hockey playing history (at least JB had that background).

 

Color me skeptical that he was qualified..

 

His position was to file scouting reports! lol 

 

Come on, let's stop with this petty hate towards Benning.  Move on. 

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1 hour ago, 6of1_halfdozenofother said:

Just in case you're serious, "amateur scout" isn't that the scout is amateur, it's that they're scouting amateur players (ie. players who haven't turned pro yet).  I'm certain the scouts are paid more generously than what most of us fans are making.

Ya 1/2 joking 6of1, but curiously, what's your best guess at an average salary?

Love to see an official job profile.

Can't imagine a mid-winter tip to go watch a prospect in High Prairie.

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Mo Grit said:

Ya 1/2 joking 6of1, but curiously, what's your best guess at an average salary?

Love to see an official job profile.

Can't imagine a mid-winter tip to go watch a prospect in High Prairie.

 

 

Thomas Drance mentioned today that they make similar salaries to the listeners.  Not sure how out of touch Drance is, but that would make it sound like a typical 60,000 to 100,000 job?  

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47 minutes ago, DSVII said:

Guess who was AGM of the flames during that time that hired him as the scout? That worked with Jim as a scout in Boston?

 

John Weisbrod AGM of the Flames. (June 2011-Dec 2013)

Brandon Benning as a Flames Scout (Nov 2011 - Aug 2014)

 

Did not even last a year after Weisbrod was fired by the Flames.

 

John Weisbrod then becomes our AGM, and he hired Brandon again.

 

The Flames drafting under that regime (flubbing 2 of 3 first round picks in 2013!)

image.thumb.png.0097eb9ad46df0268219fe26084dbcc8.png

 

Prior experience before the Flames as per his linkedin, an office assistant. Combined with a non-existant hockey playing history (at least JB had that background).

 

Color me skeptical that he was qualified..

 

My favourite part about this is the 2014 draft where they picked Mason Mcdonald 2 picks before Thatcher Demko :blink: that is pure gold !!!!

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1 hour ago, Stech said:

Didn't deserve the job in the first place.


I don’t think it’s right for anyone to tie a son or daughter to the record or performance of their parent/relative. They’re their own person and should be judged as such on their own record. If they didn’t do their job well enough by all means let them go, but automatically assuming someone isn’t qualified just because they’re related to someone else isn’t fair to that person.

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7 minutes ago, 6of1_halfdozenofother said:

Given the tenure they've had, I would say probably north of $75k USD for the least experienced, and maybe even 6 figures for the most experienced of them.

 

The expectation is that they need to come up with reports on amateur players to identify who to target and what the players' abilities are - and to do this at the highest level of the game.  Pretty sure their desired skillset is one that warrants the higher salary than those of us scrubs happy to make more than minimum wage.

75k+ furry warm boots, scotch account, travel, hotel and 'iffy' entertainment expenses paid, boss far away, creative reports .... seems like a decent gig to me.

Why aren't retired hockey journeymen lining up right around Rogers to apply?

 

 

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11 hours ago, RakuRaku said:

It's about damn time!!!! Whoever recommended Juolevi to JB lol...... 

 

but seriously... we haven't had much luck with draft picks that could turn out to be useful players other than the obvious core players now.... 

Nobody is griping about Bennings drafting.  The new management group has every right to hire their own people.  I don't know why anybody should be surprised or digging for a conspiracy

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3 hours ago, 6of1_halfdozenofother said:

Just in case you're serious, "amateur scout" isn't that the scout is amateur, it's that they're scouting amateur players (ie. players who haven't turned pro yet).  I'm certain the scouts are paid more generously than what most of us fans are making.

How much do you think an amateur scout makes? I have no clue.

 

* sorry looks like discussed already *

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5 hours ago, IBatch said:

Huh?   Nedved was actually one Quins/scouting staff - best hits.  Jagr informed every single GM that reached out that they'd be wasting their pick and he wouldn't show up - except PIT - because he wanted to play with Mario.  People also forget perspective.   Nedved wasn't a "consolation" prize - he was a legit big promising Center.   Took him a couple years to gain some traction then he pulled some major crap.   Salary disclosure also had a little to do with that.   38 goals - the sky the limit etc etc .., he was really awesome for us that year.   One line can't do it all - we had two great lines   History kind of justified the trade but back then it took a cup final appearance for fans to forget about Nedved.  

Yeah I was always a Nedved fan

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7 hours ago, Tre Mac said:

Usually most reports scouts make on players is accessible to NHL brass.  If Delorme is pointing out Jagr is superior to Nedved but the GM goes over his suggestion and take Nedved then Delorme can bring this up when the new boss comes in.  This is why some scouts get fired while others get promoted.

 

Delorme was instrumental in vouching for Petey apparently. 

And there's a story out there that he was pushing hard for Burkie to draft Shea Weber with the first round pick in the 2003 draft (the draft that Burkie took Kesler).

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9 hours ago, D-Money said:

Amateur scouting should be a fairly easy job to evaluate. It’s not just who you ended up picking, it’s all the players scouted. Go back and look at the notes on each player from each scout, who was recommended and who wasn’t, and see how they panned out.

 

Judd Brackett was poached from us, and he seems to be doing a great job in Minny. I’m happy that we’re turning into the team doing the poaching now.

Brackett wasn't poached. He declined to accept the offer made by Benning to re-sign because he thought it was insulting. Basically, he was pushed out and then signed with Minny.  He was widely regarded as an excellent scouting director and probably should have been promoted. But he had has some disagreements with Benning.

 

Reminded me of when Larry Gllman was fired from his AGM position. He was also a very smart guy and a very well-respected guy who disagreed with Benning and was pushed out. Toronto picked him up and he has done a great job there by all accounts.  I thought that Gilman and Brackett were the two smartest guys on the staff and that it was bad sign when each of them left.  I think Benning was uncomfortable having guys around who a) were clearly smarter than he was and b) were willing to express their opinions. 

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2 hours ago, Mo Grit said:

Ya 1/2 joking 6of1, but curiously, what's your best guess at an average salary?

Love to see an official job profile.

Can't imagine a mid-winter tip to go watch a prospect in High Prairie.

 

 

A friend of mine is a Sales and Lease Consultant at a Honda dealership in Langley...he leased a car to a Vegas amateur scout responsible for BCHL coverage on a full time basis, and he was getting paid $90K CAD a year, with car allowance of $700 a month, a gas card for fuel expenses, and all travel expenses covered.  The scout did a lease on a Honda CR-V Touring (a three year lease payment on this car is apparently $550 a month).  As an aside, same friend leased a Honda Pilot to Brian (Red) Hamilton.  If anyone needs a Honda, go to Jonker Honda and ask for my friend Byron.  He's amazing at what he does and you won't meet a better guy in the car biz.

 

Tom Martin Jr., probably best known for being traded for a team bus by Victoria Cougars and aptly nicknamed Greyhound back in the late 80s, drafted by the Jets and had a short NHL career, is a friend of mine, living in Victoria.  His father, Tom Senior, was the Senior Scout for Western Canada for NHL Central Scouting, and my guess is that Tom Senior probably got paid around $125,000 back in the 1990s. 

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1 hour ago, JamesB said:

Reminded me of when Larry Gllman was fired from his AGM position. He was also a very smart guy and a very well-respected guy who disagreed with Benning and was pushed out. Toronto picked him up and he has done a great job there by all accounts.  I thought that Gilman and Brackett were the two smartest guys on the staff and that it was bad sign when each of them left.  I think Benning was uncomfortable having guys around who a) were clearly smarter than he was and b) were willing to express their opinions. 

He must have been uncomfortable all the time then

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1 hour ago, JamesB said:

Brackett wasn't poached. He declined to accept the offer made by Benning to re-sign because he thought it was insulting. Basically, he was pushed out and then signed with Minny.  He was widely regarded as an excellent scouting director and probably should have been promoted. But he had has some disagreements with Benning.

 

Reminded me of when Larry Gllman was fired from his AGM position. He was also a very smart guy and a very well-respected guy who disagreed with Benning and was pushed out. Toronto picked him up and he has done a great job there by all accounts.  I thought that Gilman and Brackett were the two smartest guys on the staff and that it was bad sign when each of them left.  I think Benning was uncomfortable having guys around who a) were clearly smarter than he was and b) were willing to express their opinions. 

Nailed it

Kinda coincidental that one of the “disagreements”  that Brackett had was simply to be able to hire and fire his own staff as part of any new contract.  (After JB abruptly fired two of his staff on him a year earlier) Which was a bridge too far for Brandon’s daddy. Hmmmm

 

The Judd Brackett led amateur scouting department was maybe our best we’ve ever had here .  Okay that’s not saying much…but he did preside over picks like Boeser Demko Pettersson and Hughes. He was on a roll. It was the only department that didn’t suck pucks. One of the petty knee jerk decisions that set the team back . Bleeding value from the on ice product , as well as the operational talent behind it.  
 

 

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1 minute ago, kilgore said:

Nailed it

Kinda coincidental that one of the “disagreements”  that Brackett had was simply to be able to hire and fire his own staff as part of any new contract.  (After JB abruptly fired two of his staff on him a year earlier) Which was a bridge too far for daddy. Hmmmm

 

The Judd Brackett led amateur scouting department was maybe our best we’ve ever had here .  Okay that’s not saying much…but he did preside over picks like Boeser Demko Pettersson and Hughes. He was on a roll. It was the only department that didn’t suck pucks. One of the petty knee jerk decisions that set the team back . Bleeding value from the on ice product , as well as the operational talent behind it.  

 

Can we agree that the 1st round pick is always GM's call and that the rest of the picks are more so choices of the scouts?  Demko was drafted in 2014 draft btw, before Brackett had as much influence.  

 

I would give credit to Brackett for the later round picks like Rathbone, Gaudette, Madden, etc. 1st round picks are the work of all the scouts and ultimately decided on by the GM. 

 

2019 draft was without Brackett and we came away with Podkolzin, Hoglander, Arturs Silovs, and Aiden McDonaugh.  Might end up being one of our best drafts if either Silovs or McDonaugh pan out. 

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Surprised this wasn't done sooner when we hired new management and cleaned house but it has to be done any time a new regime wants to come in and employ their own way of scouting and drafting.

 

Allvin's draft record scares me a bit so hopefully they get some very fresh guys in.

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16 hours ago, Odd. said:

Next up, fire Trent Cull. Who the hell plays a 2nd round defenseman as a forward.

Boudreau played one of our most Defensive D-men, Bouroughs as a forward while leaving Hunt back on D. 

He also played Hunt more on D when the Canucks often played better with Bouroughs in the line up. 

Who needs Boudreau?

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1 hour ago, VancouverHabitant said:

 

Can we agree that the 1st round pick is always GM's call and that the rest of the picks are more so choices of the scouts?  Demko was drafted in 2014 draft btw, before Brackett had as much influence.  

 

I would give credit to Brackett for the later round picks like Rathbone, Gaudette, Madden, etc. 1st round picks are the work of all the scouts and ultimately decided on by the GM. 

 

2019 draft was without Brackett and we came away with Podkolzin, Hoglander, Arturs Silovs, and Aiden McDonaugh.  Might end up being one of our best drafts if either Silovs or McDonaugh pan out. 

Not necessarily.  Guerin has given full autonomy to Brackett including the 1st round - was quoted saying that it's not the time for him to intervene or it would just get them in trouble.  Yzerman similar statement saying he would just be meddling and explains that watching a player a few times and then deciding who to pick would be akin to throwing darts.  

 

Podkolzin was Brackett's pick.  He left just ahead of the 2020 draft - Canucks didn't pick before the 3rd round that year. 

 

MacIntyre writes:  "But Juolevi was Benning’s choice back in 2016 because the GM wanted a defenceman and loved what he saw from the Finn at the world juniors. He could have chosen Mikhail Sergachev or Charlie McAvoy. Benning is believed to have gone with Brackett’s first-round recommendation ever since."

 

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