New management worries me

[grandmaster]

The trajectory of this team is upwards, if we keep the main pieces intact.

 

Reasons why:

 

- the team has proven coaching was their biggest problem at the start of the season. The record speaks for itself once BB arrived. We just barely missed the playoff mark!

 

- QH is a top 10 NHL defender who has made great strides in his defensive side of the game. He is getting better and the sky is the limit for this guy. I see him getting a Norris trophy in the near future.

 

- Miller effect. One of the greatest leaders this team has seen. Plays well in all situations and puts his heart and soul out there. He will continue to be a top 10 NHL scoring leader & gets better every season he plays.

 

- Demko is a top 5 NHL goalie and will have a good back up next season. He won’t be so overplayed, making his game stronger all season.

 

The above 3 is what you need to win a Cup. The complimentary pieces in Bo, Brock and Petey are also nothing to sneeze at.

 

They seem so tight and truly care for each other (look at Brock’s press conference).
 

Our core is getting better and I have trust that with BB, we can not only make the playoffs next season, we can contend.

 

New management and their remarks so far scare me. I fear we will be taking a  step backwards when the team is destined to go further forward. It so obvious they are itching to make changes so they have their stamp on things. Let’s hope they are not bad decisions…..

[aGENT]

Trading Miller doesn't necessarily equate to a step backward with the right return and subsequent moves.

 

There's zero reason this team can't be near/just as competitive next year AND with a better long term outlook, less shaky cap situation, more youth etc.

 

Can't make an omelette....

[NUCKER67]

Watching playoffs, I'm not sure how far the Canucks would go, even with a somewhat healthy roster. Especially with Schenn as the only physical force.

 

The D isn't good enough and they talked about that. How they're relying way too much on Demko and having trouble clearing the zone. Improvements need to be made and they're trying to build a winner. 

 

If they could somehow ship out Myers, Dickinson, Pearson and possibly Garland,  and improve the D, this team could do something. I believe Poolman may be untradeable (health), but maybe he can chip in as a #7/8?

 

I think they would have plenty of offence with:

 

Miller

Horvat

Pettersson

Boeser

Podkolzin

Hoglander

Lockwood

 

It's a good start anyway.

[Marv-the-wet-bandit]

35 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Trading Miller doesn't necessarily equate to a step backward with the right return and subsequent moves.

 

There's zero reason this team can't be near/just as competitive next year AND with a better long term outlook, less shaky cap situation, more youth etc.

 

Can't make an omelette....

You’re absolutely right. Miller is about to get paid well into his 30s, the kind of contract that works out every once and a while but flops more often then not (there’s an absurd amount of examples but let’s just throw Jamie Benn out there, look at what he’s done from his age 30 season and onward and look at the cap). If we could hypothetically get 3 young pieces (picks and prospects or young players) then that’s multiple holes getting filled at Pennie’s on the dollar. Sometimes a step back is necessary to move forward. JB left this management group with some terrible contracts and they have to work around that, we will be a good team and this management team is poised and making the right decisions. 

[fanfor42]

It depends on which camp you are in - the one that feels we are close or the one that feels we are a long ways off.

 

Personally I want a couple strategic moves but not major surgery.

 

The new management needs to realize what this team has been through before launching into major changes.  They have had terrible coaching with WD and then TG. Terrible.  They have suffered some awful seasons as a result.

 

BB came in and turned it around for them.  There is confidence growing.  I don't want to see that tossed out like it doesn't matter.

 

The new management also does not understand what this fan base has been through.  BB is the first real coach we have had in 8 years.  And he is loved by the fans. I sure hope he comes back for next season cuz losing him would be really lousy right about now.

 

The new management needs to be patient and not go out of their way to make their mark  just to show who is in charge. I think Petey Hogz podz Boeser Garland Huggy Rathbone Demko are all still improving. That bodes really well for the near future. 

 

Horvat and Miller are solid.  IMO we are not that far off.  Improving the D without upsetting the apple cart is what I want to see - and continuity at coach thanks.

 

As a final thought I believe the goal should be making the playoffs the next 6 years in a row.  I believe playoff experience will mold this team into a contender - not trying to "fix" it with wholesale personnel changes so that management can declare "Allvin there it is!"

 

 

[Marv-the-wet-bandit]

1 minute ago, fanfor42 said:

It depends on which camp you are in - the one that feels we are close or the one that feels we are a long ways off.

 

Personally I want a couple strategic moves but not major surgery.

 

The new management needs to realize what this team has been through before launching into major changes.  They have had terrible coaching with WD and then TG. Terrible.  They have suffered some awful seasons as a result.

 

BB came in and turned it around for them.  There is confidence growing.  I don't want to see that tossed out like it doesn't matter.

 

The new management also does not understand what this fan base has been through.  BB is the first real coach we have had in 8 years.  And he is loved by the fans. I sure hope he comes back for next season cuz losing him would be really lousy right about now.

 

The new management needs to be patient and not go out of their way to make their mark  just to show who is in charge. I think Petey Hogz podz Boeser Garland Huggy Rathbone Demko are all still improving. That bodes really well for the near future. 

 

Horvat and Miller are solid.  IMO we are not that far off.  Improving the D without upsetting the apple cart is what I want to see - and continuity at coach thanks.

 

As a final thought I believe the goal should be making the playoffs the next 6 years in a row.  I believe playoff experience will mold this team into a contender - not trying to "fix" it with wholesale personnel changes so that management can declare "Allvin there it is!"

 

 

I’d like to re sign everyone and improve the D corps as well, but how does that happen? How do we keep Boeser on a new deal and Miller and Horvat on extensions while fixing other holes? If everyone takes a discount it’s potentially possible, but not realistic to expect that 

[fanfor42]

Just now, Marv-the-wet-bandit said:

I’d like to re sign everyone and improve the D corps as well, but how does that happen? How do we keep Boeser on a new deal and Miller and Horvat on extensions while fixing other holes? If everyone takes a discount it’s potentially possible, but not realistic to expect that 

If Poolman stays on LTIR and Boeser signs for 6.25m or less there will be money for Miller and Horvat (as 4m in dead cap frees up in another year).  So yes it is possible.

 

Strategic moves not wholesale change is what I am saying. 

[Kuzy]

23 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said:

Watching playoffs, I'm not sure how far the Canucks would go, even with a somewhat healthy roster. Especially with Schenn as the only physical force.

 

The D isn't good enough and they talked about that. How they're relying way too much on Demko and having trouble clearing the zone. Improvements need to be made and they're trying to build a winner. 

 

If they could somehow ship out Myers, Dickinson, Pearson and possibly Garland,  and improve the D, this team could do something. I believe Poolman may be untradeable (health), but maybe he can chip in as a #7/8?

 

I think they would have plenty of offence with:

 

Miller

Horvat

Pettersson

Boeser

Podkolzin

Hoglander

Lockwood

 

It's a good start anyway.

I like Lockwood but I wouldn't count on him for offense. 0 points in 15 career NHL games.

[Marv-the-wet-bandit]

2 minutes ago, fanfor42 said:

If Poolman stays on LTIR and Boeser signs for 6.25m or less there will be money for Miller and Horvat (as 4m in dead cap frees up in another year).  So yes it is possible.

 

Strategic moves not wholesale change is what I am saying. 

Is there not potential value in moving Miller and getting 3 pieces that more align with the age of our core and are on ELCs? I agree it would be phenomenal to keep everyone, I just don’t think it’s attainable. I see Miller getting 6-7 years and 8.5 million of not a hair more

 

I do think Boeser is attainable around that price but it’ll be a shorter term deal, maybe 3 years at that price if we are lucky 

[fanfor42]

3 minutes ago, Marv-the-wet-bandit said:

Is there not potential value in moving Miller and getting 3 pieces that more align with the age of our core and are on ELCs? I agree it would be phenomenal to keep everyone, I just don’t think it’s attainable. I see Miller getting 6-7 years and 8.5 million of not a hair more

 

I do think Boeser is attainable around that price but it’ll be a shorter term deal, maybe 3 years at that price if we are lucky 

IMO moving Miller makes it less likely we make the playoffs next year.  You want to lose Horvat as a UFA?  I think he has been clear that he does not want to be part of another rebuild. 

 

There are surely other routes to improve the d without dealing Miller. 

 

I think the team wants to win now.  They don't want to get some draft picks and another young guy at the cost of Miller.  I just don't think the room wants that.

 

 

[Marv-the-wet-bandit]

3 minutes ago, fanfor42 said:

IMO moving Miller makes it less likely we make the playoffs next year.  You want to lose Horvat as a UFA?  I think he has been clear that he does not want to be part of another rebuild. 

 

There are surely other routes to improve the d without dealing Miller. 

 

I think the team wants to win now.  They don't want to get some draft picks and another young guy at the cost of Miller.  I just don't think the room wants that.

 

 

Of course I don’t want to lose Horvat to UFA, asset management is one of the keys to running a high quality organization, if Horvat doesn’t sign an extension in the off-season or by the deadline unfortunately you have to look at moving him. The goal should always be to build a perennial Stanley cup contender, you don’t lose players for nothing and at points there are hard decisions to make

[DSVII]

I think we have a different opinion, the trajectory is upwards but it is one and done peak. 

 

With the cap structure Benning left on the team there isn't a foundation for sustained success over several years and if OEL declines during his deal it will be a boat anchor for the peak of this core.

 

Management saw this and looked to move Hamonic asap which freed up some space but more work needs to be done.

 

Yes you need a #1 goalie, centre and D man to win a cup but you also need depth that can outproduce the value of their contracts. We haven't had enough of that in recent years (poolman, dickinson, holtby, halak, Myers, OEL). I'm hopeful this management group recognizes that. 

 

 

[hammertime]

8 minutes ago, fanfor42 said:

IMO moving Miller makes it less likely we make the playoffs next year.  You want to lose Horvat as a UFA?  I think he has been clear that he does not want to be part of another rebuild. 

 

There are surely other routes to improve the d without dealing Miller. 

 

I think the team wants to win now.  They don't want to get some draft picks and another young guy at the cost of Miller.  I just don't think the room wants that.

 

 

this^

[fanfor42]

1 minute ago, Marv-the-wet-bandit said:

Of course I don’t want to lose Horvat to UFA, asset management is one of the keys to running a high quality organization, if Horvat doesn’t sign an extension in the off-season or by the deadline unfortunately you have to look at moving him. The goal should always be to build a perennial Stanley cup contender, you don’t lose players for nothing and at points there are hard decisions to make

I think making the playoffs next year is critical to the long term success of this core.  You can't keep handing them sh*t seasons.  They need to taste success.  Keeping Miller IMO makes us better next year and keeps the core happy including Horvat.  Look for other ways to improve the d but not trading Miller.  I think it would be a major step back for the team (ala when Benning lost Tanev markie and Toff).

 

 

[NUCKER67]

13 minutes ago, Stech said:

I like Lockwood but I wouldn't count on him for offense. 0 points in 15 career NHL games.

True, but he's was a rookie and generated a lot of energy and had opportunity. Maybe he eventually starts potting a few here and there in the coming years?  Hoglander is an enigma. He's got the skill to score 40 goals a year, but it doesn't seem to be working out for him in VAN, or the NHL.  10 goals in 60 games this year, and only 13 the year before. This could be a fresh start some talk about, him going to another team. Could he be added in a deal as a sweetener?

[hammertime]

3 minutes ago, Marv-the-wet-bandit said:

Of course I don’t want to lose Horvat to UFA, asset management is one of the keys to running a high quality organization, if Horvat doesn’t sign an extension in the off-season or by the deadline unfortunately you have to look at moving him. The goal should always be to build a perennial Stanley cup contender, you don’t lose players for nothing and at points there are hard decisions to make

Move Miller then Horvat you say........ Pete the next year too?

[Marv-the-wet-bandit]

2 minutes ago, hammertime said:

Move Miller then Horvat you say........ Pete the next year too?

I said I don’t want to lose Horvat, but if he’s not locked up you don’t risk losing him for nothing, that’s the kind of thing that will take this organization a long time to recover from. Asset management is key, which is something we didn’t have with the last regime. Horvat is one of my favourite players and I’d expect they get an extension done with him

[J-23]

They did say they will be making non-emotional moves so I will be looking forward to it. Though actions speak louder. Hopefully they don’t get attached to players and do what’s right. 
 

Fans will cry and complain regardless. Like they did when we traded away a 4th liner.

[John.Tallhouse]

[Marv-the-wet-bandit]

3 minutes ago, fanfor42 said:

I think making the playoffs next year is critical to the long term success of this core.  You can't keep handing them sh*t seasons.  They need to taste success.  Keeping Miller IMO makes us better next year and keeps the core happy including Horvat.  Look for other ways to improve the d but not trading Miller.  I think it would be a major step back for the team (ala when Benning lost Tanev markie and Toff).

 

 

I agree the asset management was terrible in those cases and of course Miller makes us a better team next year and improves our chances at the playoffs, I’ve never said otherwise. I do think it’s unwise to sign him for 7 years at 8.5 million with some of the other terrible contracts we already have but solely as a player I love Miller. But if the Rangers offer Chytl, Schneider and a first then I think it’s best for the organization. We don’t have to agree on how we would build a team, but at the end of the day we both want the same thing, a Stanley cup