[proposal] full dumperoo

[mll]

5 minutes ago, kanucks25 said:

Sure, but it's not like we'll be bottom-feeding during the turnaround time.

 

Over the next 3 years we might even be able to squeak into the playoffs once or twice, and by year 3 you'd hope that the team appears to be on a legitimate upswing, similar to how we were in the bubble before the bungled cap threw off our trajectory.

 

Hard to say either way, all depends on how the big moves management makes work out. In 3 years I wouldn't be surprised if we made the 2nd round of the playoffs, but I also wouldn't be surprised if we were a bottom-10 team. I don't know enough about the competence of this management team to say one way or the other but IMO the potential is there.

Not sure squeaking into the playoffs will be sufficient.  Pettersson has 2 years left and then only 1 year to UFA - ie he could force a trade 2 years from now if he doesn't want to extend long term.  

 

 

 

 

 

[Alflives]

KABOOM!!!

 

[kanucks25]

10 minutes ago, mll said:

Not sure squeaking into the playoffs will be sufficient.  Pettersson has 2 years left and then only 1 year to UFA - ie he could force a trade 2 years from now if he doesn't want to extend long term.  

It's about taking steps so that when a player's contract is up, he can be fairly confident that they will continue to take more steps, eventually to the top.

 

I don't think we have to make the Finals or something to convince the players to stay.

[Warhippy]

Demko, Hughes, Pettersson should be our only untouchables.

 

But the rest, fuh-lush

 

This is the literal year to pick the direction of suck and profit so if ya wanna Alf it out fine.  Go ahead.

[mll]

49 minutes ago, kanucks25 said:

It's about taking steps so that when a player's contract is up, he can be fairly confident that they will continue to take more steps, eventually to the top.

 

I don't think we have to make the Finals or something to convince the players to stay.

 

Podkolzin is in his draft+3 - can take several years for picks to start making an impact.  Teams in the division especially LAK and Anaheim have a deep prospect pool and are already preparing for their transition with several years of development ahead of the Canucks.  

 

Vancouver is pretty much starting from scratch prospect wise.  Feels like the transition to bringing prospects onto the roster could be a real lengthy one if they are to be developed properly.  Cull was just talking of how Gaudette was rushed and that new management don't want to do that.  In the meantime who fills the gap and helps the team continue to get better.  

 

 

[Alflives]

6 minutes ago, mll said:

 

Podkolzin is in his draft+3 - can take several years for picks to start making an impact.  Teams in the division especially LAK and Anaheim have a deep prospect pool and are already preparing for their transition with several years of development ahead of the Canucks.  

 

Vancouver is pretty much starting from scratch prospect wise.  Feels like the transition to bringing prospects onto the roster could be a real lengthy one if they are to be developed properly.  Cull was just talking of how Gaudette was rushed and that new management don't want to do that.  In the meantime who fills the gap and helps the team continue to get better.  

 

 

Didn't Benning trade a lot of seconds and thirds (and prospects) for gap filler - age wise - players to speed up his retool/thing?  I don't think that was wise. It's either all in right now, with this core (including Miller) or we totally rebuild.  This trying to do both things (retool and compete) doesn't work.   

[VegasCanuck]

2 hours ago, HKSR said:

I'll play, just cuz it's fun...

 

Demko to NJD for 2nd OA

 

Horvat to Philly for 5th OA

 

Miller to Boston for Debrusk+Lysell+2023 1st Round

 

etc

 

Slafkovsky with 2nd OA

Jiricek or Nemec with 5th OA

 

Future core:

 

Lysell-Petey-Slafkovsky

Hughes-Jiricek/Nemec

 

And then, 3 years from now, someone will create another post:

 

Slafkovsky for 3rd OA

Jiricek or Nemec for 6th OA

Debrusk for a keg of beer

Lysell for a 3rd rounder

 

Because..............

 

THAT is what we do here!

[mll]

2 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Didn't Benning trade a lot of seconds and thirds (and prospects) for gap filler - age wise - players to speed up his retool/thing?  I don't think that was wise. It's either all in right now, with this core (including Miller) or we totally rebuild.  This trying to do both things (retool and compete) doesn't work.   

They just trade a 3rd for Dermott so makes you wonder if they aren't going to try a similar approach.  Their process to identify those players might be far more thorough though with input from a larger circle and the integration of analytics.  The team letting the player go have similar processes though.

 

[kanucks25]

49 minutes ago, mll said:

 

Podkolzin is in his draft+3 - can take several years for picks to start making an impact.  Teams in the division especially LAK and Anaheim have a deep prospect pool and are already preparing for their transition with several years of development ahead of the Canucks.  

 

Vancouver is pretty much starting from scratch prospect wise.  Feels like the transition to bringing prospects onto the roster could be a real lengthy one if they are to be developed properly.  Cull was just talking of how Gaudette was rushed and that new management don't want to do that.  In the meantime who fills the gap and helps the team continue to get better.  

I agree that infusing the team with quality cost-controlled youth won't be easy and won't come quick.

 

But there is enough time between now and when the aforementioned contracts are up for the organization to put themselves in a good enough position for upcoming free agents (whether they be ours or others') to believe that we're on the right track and getting close.

 

Again, it just depends on what management does. If they miss on most of their draft picks over the next few years and sign another Loui type free agent, we're boned, and we risk players leaving. But if the moves pan out, prospects develop sooner than anticipated, etc. there would be real reason for optimism.

 

And another thing, let's say Pettersson becomes a UFA and by then solidifies himself as a reliable 1C. How many teams out there have 10~ million in open cap space and would be considered a contender once they acquire him? Look around the league, most teams that are considered contenders are trying to find ways to open up/shed cap and don't have space for a signing like that. When the time comes, it's very much possible the Canucks are in the best position to both pay and utilize Pettersson. Not to mention the inside track we have with him being our guy already.

Edited May 11, 2022 by kanucks25

[The Lock]

This isn't the same situation as when Benning came in when it was clear we weren't going to be a good team for a while. We actually seem to be on the upward trend at the moment if you ignore Green's start to the season. Our core is still young and able to be built on. I just don't see the point in blowing it all up.

 

Now, if the question is would I accept such a decision from management... honestly, I don't know. I feel we have something to build on due to the reasons I mentioned, but I also understand it wouldn't be a decision made lightly. Still, it would at the very least make me hesitant with management.

[Alflives]

20 minutes ago, The Lock said:

This isn't the same situation as when Benning came in when it was clear we weren't going to be a good team for a while. We actually seem to be on the upward trend at the moment if you ignore Green's start to the season. Our core is still young and able to be built on. I just don't see the point in blowing it all up.

 

Now, if the question is would I accept such a decision from management... honestly, I don't know. I feel we have something to build on due to the reasons I mentioned, but I also understand it wouldn't be a decision made lightly. Still, it would at the very least make me hesitant with management.

  Which of our core are young?  Demko, Petey and Hughes, right?  The rest of our top minute guys are older.  Miller, OEL, Myers, etc.  So, are those first three guys as good as the top teams' key young players?  If we believe our core (young) three are up there with the other top cores then sure let's build around them.  But if we think those three aren't up there with the top teams' then we need to get guys who are.

[The Lock]

9 minutes ago, Alflives said:

  Which of our core are young?  Demko, Petey and Hughes, right?  The rest of our top minute guys are older.  Miller, OEL, Myers, etc.  So, are those first three guys as good as the top teams' key young players?  If we believe our core (young) three are up there with the other top cores then sure let's build around them.  But if we think those three aren't up there with the top teams' then we need to get guys who are.

Well I guess it depends on what you define as being young. Personally, I am of a belief a player is not really in his prime until around the age of 27. Horvat's 27, so based on that I would consider anyone drafted later than Horvat to be a young part of the core. This also falls in line with you mentioning Demko, who's 26. This would then mean that Garland, Boeser, Pettersson, Hughes, Hoglander, Podkolzin, Demko, maybe even Dermott if you consider him part of the core, as they'd all 26 and younger.  Quite a number of players.

 

Basically, in my opinion, if much of the core is likely before their prime, we have a pretty young core at that point, which is what can be said about our core. All the more reason to not blow things up.

Edited May 11, 2022 by The Lock

[HKSR]

40 minutes ago, Alflives said:

  Which of our core are young?  Demko, Petey and Hughes, right?  The rest of our top minute guys are older.  Miller, OEL, Myers, etc.  So, are those first three guys as good as the top teams' key young players?  If we believe our core (young) three are up there with the other top cores then sure let's build around them.  But if we think those three aren't up there with the top teams' then we need to get guys who are.

I think the part that many people are not realizing is that Demko is not that young.  Did you know he turns 27 this December?

 

That is THE reason why we need to think about the window right now.  He's literally gonna be hitting his prime soon and on a REALLY good value deal.  Arguably better than Nathan Mackinnon.  Not taking advantage of that would be incredibly stupid.

[gizmo2337]

If we had a full season with Boudreau, we probably make the playoffs. That said, our D is not good enough to make it past first round. How do you fix it?

 

 

[Pure961089]

If Allvin can work a deal to pry NJDs 2nd overall pick for Miller and maybe our 15th we could draft Jiricek.  He is the perfect fit for Hughes and is close to nhl ready.

[JM_]

6 hours ago, mll said:

Kind of wonder if trading Miller for whatever magic beans is not going to lead them right into that situation.  It's the right move if they can't extend him to a reasonable deal but if that happens, they probably need to seriously assess who is left and their mindset.  

 

 

careful I got accused of spamming saying that  

 

But that would be a concern of mine for sure, what the rest of the team thought of moving Miller. 

[JM_]

3 hours ago, kanucks25 said:

I agree that infusing the team with quality cost-controlled youth 

realistically, I think some luck is going to have to happen in the form of guys like Kuzmenko, Karlsson, college free agents and maybe a steal in a trade if we're actually going to pull this part off. Maybe more KHL players are a bit of a wild card too, there may be more than normal wanting to come over given how the ruble is going. 

[gizmo2337]

A couple times I pondered the idea of Petey for Adam Fox (salary retained). I fully expect to get flamed just for mentioning trading Petey, but it solves the top right D problem. However much you like Petey, I actually think NYR says no.

I don't actually want to trade Petey, but I liked our chances better when we built from the net out. We've built from forwards down, and we just can't defend. We should draft 5 D men and a goalie this draft. Where else are we going to get 2-3 top 4 D?

[qwijibo]

42 minutes ago, gizmo2337 said:

A couple times I pondered the idea of Petey for Adam Fox (salary retained). I fully expect to get flamed just for mentioning trading Petey, but it solves the top right D problem. However much you like Petey, I actually think NYR says no.

I don't actually want to trade Petey, but I liked our chances better when we built from the net out. We've built from forwards down, and we just can't defend. We should draft 5 D men and a goalie this draft. Where else are we going to get 2-3 top 4 D?

Yeah. The rangers wouldn’t do that. They have their 1C locked up for 8 more seasons. Fox is a 24 year old Norris winner who forced a trade to the Rangers and is signed long term.  Pettersson doesn’t fill a need and Fox plays a vital role 

[Junkyard Dog]

Would this mean Bedard?