(Discussion & Proposal) Go All In for next season, while not having cap trouble afterwards

[Franz Liszt]

So, I have really gotten back on the Canucks bandwagon hardcore again. I've always been a fan, but I think this next season could be a big one.

 

So far, the Canucks lines and D-pairings look something like this with everyone who is under contract for next season.

 

Miller-Pettersson-

        -Horvat-

Pearson-Dickinson-Podkolzin

             -                -

 

OEL-Myers

Hughes-

Dermott-Poolman

Hunt, Schenn 

 

Demko-Martin

 

That is 56.4/82.5 salary committed to 16 players, including the buyout money to Holtby, Virtanen, and Ferland's LTIR $$$. 

Players who start in AHL: Rathbone, Hoglander, Burroughs, Dowling and Woo.

 

For the discussion part, what moves would you like to see the Canucks make? Fill in the blanks.

 

For me, I would like to see something along the lines of this:

 

Trade:

To NJD:

Garland, 15th OA, our 2022 3rd round pick (79th) and our 2023 2nd round pick

 

To VAN:

2nd OA

 

Draft:

Juraj Slavkovsky (0.925 ELC) and put him into the lineup.

 

Signings and Re-signings:

Re-sign Lammikko, Highmore and Hunt to no more than 2.5 million spread around them (0.825-0.850 salary) 

Re-sign Boeser to a contract no higher than 6 million (1, 2 or 3 years) - there's 21 players now with 9.525 million added (65.125/82.5 now).

 

Sign Filip Forsberg to an 7 year $64 million deal (9.142 AAV)

Sign Nick Deslauriers to a 3 year deal at $6.75 million (2.250 AAV)

Sign Noel Acciari to 2 years at $3.5 million (1.750 AAV)

Sign Josh Manson to 5 years at $25 million (5.000 AAV)

 

All of this puts the Canucks at 82.39/82.5 

 

After, Ferland's LTIR will kick in a little extra cap room for call-ups.

 

New lineup looks like this:

 

Miller-Pettersson-Forsberg

Slafkofsky-Horvat-Boeser

Pearson-Dickinson-Podkolzin

Deslauriers-Lammikko-Lockwood

Highmore (Hoglander, Dowling)

 

OEL-Myers

Hughes-Manson

Dermott-Poolman

Hunt, Schenn

(Rathbone, Burroughs)

 

Demko-Martin

(DiPietro, Silovs)

 

(Bracketed players represent AHL)

 

I think going all in and bridging the gap with a star now would be beneficial for this season and going forward.

Locking up someone like Forsberg can give the team a boost to the current roster.

But if the Canucks are only fighting for a playoff spot, trading one of Miller, Horvat or Boeser could give the team some assets going forward for a re-tool/re-build.

I also believe we have a lot of other good players waiting in the wings like Linus Karlsson and Danila Klimovich who could get looks this season.

I also think Poolman can have a bounce-back season under a new system while keeping him to 3rd pairing and PK roles.

If Slafkovsky doesn't make the team, someone like Hoglander can step right into a 2nd/3rd line role.

 

What do you think?

 

I (hopefully) won't be making many more proposals and will ride out this offseason, excited for what is to come.

Edited May 20, 2022 by Franz Liszt

[BigTramFan]

Firstly, I agree we need to add size and toughness. And I'd also like to think we can ice a roster that competes in the playoffs next season.

 

I like your roster! But I think your values are off for these moves and so I don't think the overall roster is going to happen:

 

1. NJD don't do that deal for 2OA pick, it's a massive under payment from VAN

2. Forsberg is looking for $9m in NSH. That is equal to take home pay around $10.5m in VAN. He won't sign for $8.6m in VAN. We can only offer 7 years max for Forsberg as a UFA too

3. Deslauriers is in hot demand this off season, he will probably get paid $2.5m+

4. Similarly Manson is going to be in demand as a UFA. A $5m contract is probably fair but someone will likely beat that to secure him.

5. Think you could get Acciari for a bit less than $1.75m

 

Lastly, I think we need to find a 3C that is better than Dickinson. He's not a 3C.

 

If JR decides to resign Boeser and an extension for Miller is worked through, then I think our off-season might go something like this:

 

Trade: Garland for a young RHD + pick (e.g. to LAK for Grans + 2nd round pick)

Sign RFAs: Boeser (6.5m x 3), Lammikko (1m), Highmore (0.9m), Lockwood (0.8m), Rathbone (0.9m)

Sign UFAs: Nichushkin (6m), Nick Paul (3m), Chiasson (0.9m)

Waive: Dickinson

 

Miller Pettersson Boeser

Nichushkin Horvat Podkolzin

Pearson Paul Hoglander

Highmore Lammikko Lockwood

(Chiasson)

 

OEL Myers

Hughes Schenn

Rathbone Dermott

(Burroughs Poolman)

 

Demko (Martin)

 

 

 

If an extension for Miller is not settled on, then I think the off season could look quite different.

 

Cheers

[eeeeergh]

1 hour ago, Franz Liszt said:

So, I have really gotten back on the Canucks bandwagon hardcore again. I've always been a fan, but I think this next season could be a big one.

 

So far, the Canucks lines and D-pairings look something like this with everyone who is under contract for next season.

 

Miller-Pettersson-

        -Horvat-

Pearson-Dickinson-Podkolzin

             -                -

 

OEL-Myers

Hughes-

Dermott-Poolman

Hunt, Schenn 

 

Demko-Martin

 

That is 56.4/82.5 salary committed to 16 players, including the buyout money to Holtby, Virtanen, and Ferland's LTIR $$$. 

Players who start in AHL: Rathbone, Hoglander, Burroughs, Dowling and Woo.

 

For the discussion part, what moves would you like to see the Canucks make? Fill in the blanks.

 

For me, I would like to see something along the lines of this:

 

Trade:

To NJD:

Garland, 15th OA, our 2022 3rd round pick (79th) and our 2023 2nd round pick

 

To VAN:

2nd OA

 

Draft:

Juraj Slavkovsky (0.925 ELC) and put him into the lineup.

 

Signings and Re-signings:

Re-sign Lammikko, Highmore and Hunt to no more than 2.5 million spread around them (0.825-0.850 salary) 

Re-sign Boeser to a contract no higher than 6 million (1, 2 or 3 years) - there's 21 players now with 9.525 million added (65.125/82.5 now).

 

Sign Filip Forsberg to an 7 year $64 million deal (9.142 AAV)

Sign Nick Deslauriers to a 3 year deal at $6.75 million (2.250 AAV)

Sign Noel Acciari to 2 years at $3.5 million (1.750 AAV)

Sign Josh Manson to 5 years at $25 million (5.000 AAV)

 

Notice how Deslauriers and Acciari's contracts are not like the ones that Beagle and Rousell signed.

They are cheaper and less term, so they can be moved for picks if needed.

 

All of this puts the Canucks at 82.25/82.5 

 

After, Ferland's LTIR will kick in a little extra cap room for call-ups.

 

New lineup looks like this:

 

Miller-Pettersson-Forsberg

Slafkofsky-Horvat-Boeser

Pearson-Dickinson-Podkolzin

Deslauriers-Lammikko-Lockwood

Highmore (Hoglander, Dowling)

 

OEL-Myers

Hughes-Manson

Dermott-Poolman

Hunt, Schenn

(Rathbone, Burroughs)

 

Demko-Martin

(DiPietro, Silovs)

 

(Bracketed players represent AHL)

 

I think going all in and bridging the gap with a star now would be beneficial for this season and going forward.

Locking up someone like Forsberg can give the team a boost to the current roster.

But if the Canucks are only fighting for a playoff spot, trading one of Miller, Horvat or Boeser could give the team some assets going forward for a re-tool/re-build.

I also believe we have a lot of other good players waiting in the wings like Linus Karlsson and Danila Klimovich who could get looks this season.

I also think Poolman can have a bounce-back season under a new system while keeping him to 3rd pairing and PK roles.

If Slafkovsky doesn't make the team, someone like Hoglander can step right into a 2nd/3rd line role.

 

What do you think?

 

I (hopefully) won't be making many more proposals and will ride out this offseason, excited for what is to come.

Pretty decent tbh. I'm personally of the opinion that your NJ deal works - Garland is an excellent top-6 forward, was in the top 30 in the NHL 5v5. 
I also think at the end of the season, Podkolzin proved he belongs in the top-6. After a summer of hard work, I think he slots into the top-6 and never looks back. 
Management also wants to bring Rathbone into the lineup, so I think Dermott moves to the Right side on the bottom pair with Rathbone, and Poolman ends up on LTIR b/c of the migraines (2.5m off the cap).

I suspect Miller is the one though that gets moved this offseason, they're planning ahead and Miller's camp is going to be asking for 8.5-9m with some term. JR isn't going to wait for 2023 UFA season to let Miller test the market and see what he's worth, and Miller isn't going to sign for 7m x 5 years. 
He probably brings back a treasure trove of prospects, and there's some decent UFA top-6 forwards we could take a run at. 

The obvious moves to make cap room are Myers and Pearson. Both have value, but neither are needed by the Canucks. Myers is simply not a good fit, and should be replaced by Manson. Colin Miller may make a good partner for Hughes. I'm also interested to see if they try Dermott with Hughes - Dermott has been great defensively, and is a pretty good skater. 


 

[Locke Lamora]

Lol, Jersey ain’t doing that. 

[WCE]

The only way Devils are trading the 2nd OA is if Hughes is going the other way.

[BigTramFan]

3 hours ago, eeeeergh said:

Pretty decent tbh. I'm personally of the opinion that your NJ deal works - Garland is an excellent top-6 forward, was in the top 30 in the NHL 5v5. 

Which is a nice way of saying he's good but he also knows how to screw up a decent PP

[eeeeergh]

21 minutes ago, BigTramFan said:

Which is a nice way of saying he's good but he also knows how to screw up a decent PP

I mean..  not at all? 

Its a nice way of saying he didn't get any first unit powerplay time, and instead got the remaining 20-30 seconds, on powerplay #2. 

Unit 1 was pretty stacked without him, and powerplay 2 was always pretty lean. 

[Drakrami]

Nice proposal. But our core really doesn't make us a contending team. If you compare to Colorado, Florida, Tampa. The skill, consistency, maturity, depth is just not there. 

[BigTramFan]

12 minutes ago, eeeeergh said:

I mean..  not at all? 

Its a nice way of saying he didn't get any first unit powerplay time, and instead got the remaining 20-30 seconds, on powerplay #2. 

Unit 1 was pretty stacked without him, and powerplay 2 was always pretty lean. 

Yes but after his 123 minutes of PP time this season, you'd hope for a lot better than 6 goals scored for and 2 goals against, while he was on the ice.

 

Top players that are worth trading a 2OA pick for can play 5v5 hockey and actually score on the PP, whether that is PP1 or PP2.

[eeeeergh]

2 minutes ago, BigTramFan said:

Yes but after his 123 minutes of PP time this season, you'd hope for a lot better than 6 goals scored for and 2 goals against, while he was on the ice.

 

Top players that are worth trading a 2OA pick for can play 5v5 hockey and actually score on the PP, whether that is PP1 or PP2.

I think thats kinda silly tbh. You saw what happened when OEL was upgraded to powerplay 1 for a few games, vs when he was stuck on powerplay 2 the rest of the season. 

Powerplay 2 gets on for the remaining 20-30 seconds, when the puck has already been cleared. They get at MOST one chance, and nearly always have to start in their defensive zone. 

When he played on powerplay #1 in Arizona last year, he put up 10 points on the powerplay, in 49 games, vs 3 points here in 70+ games. 


 

[BigTramFan]

Just now, eeeeergh said:

I think thats kinda silly tbh. You saw what happened when OEL was upgraded to powerplay 1 for a few games, vs when he was stuck on powerplay 2 the rest of the season. 

Powerplay 2 gets on for the remaining 20-30 seconds, when the puck has already been cleared. They get at MOST one chance, and nearly always have to start in their defensive zone. 

When he played on powerplay #1 in Arizona last year, he put up 10 points on the powerplay, in 49 games, vs 3 points here in 70+ games. 

Well the point I was trying to make (in a roundabout way) is that Garland is not a top 30 player in the league just because he has very good 5v5 numbers.

 

If he was a top 30 offensive player, then he'd be on PP1 not our PP2.

 

NJD are not trading their 2OA for Garland + 15OA. Trying to suggest that it is a decent deal because Garland was 29th in 5v5 scoring is just stat picking. I am not saying Garland isn't good. I'm just saying that he's not going to get you the 2OA pick.

 

For example, why wouldn't NJD go for a player like Bunting from TOR instead? He was 6th best in the league for 5v5 scoring. WAY BETTER THAN GARLAND at 5v5 scoring. Maybe NJD would trade their 2OA pick for Bunting + TOR 2022 1st round pick? No of course they won't because they know that Bunting is good but 5v5 stats don't tell you everything about how good a player is.

 

Or why not Ryan Hartman + MIN 2022 1st round pick for the 2OA? Hartman was 17th in 5v5 scoring. WAY BETTER THAN GARLAND. But of course there's no way NJD would go for that deal.

 

Again, please don't think I don't like Garland or I think he's a bad player. I just do not think he has that much trade value. Cheers

[eeeeergh]

15 minutes ago, BigTramFan said:

Well the point I was trying to make (in a roundabout way) is that Garland is not a top 30 player in the league just because he has very good 5v5 numbers.

 

If he was a top 30 offensive player, then he'd be on PP1 not our PP2.

 

NJD are not trading their 2OA for Garland + 15OA. Trying to suggest that it is a decent deal because Garland was 29th in 5v5 scoring is just stat picking. I am not saying Garland isn't good. I'm just saying that he's not going to get you the 2OA pick.

 

For example, why wouldn't NJD go for a player like Bunting from TOR instead? He was 6th best in the league for 5v5 scoring. WAY BETTER THAN GARLAND at 5v5 scoring. Maybe NJD would trade their 2OA pick for Bunting + TOR 2022 1st round pick? No of course they won't because they know that Bunting is good but 5v5 stats don't tell you everything about how good a player is.

 

Or why not Ryan Hartman + MIN 2022 1st round pick for the 2OA? Hartman was 17th in 5v5 scoring. WAY BETTER THAN GARLAND. But of course there's no way NJD would go for that deal.

 

Again, please don't think I don't like Garland or I think he's a bad player. I just do not think he has that much trade value. Cheers

I mean, if Hartman strung together another year or two of production like he had, I think NJ would be crazy to not consider that deal. But looks more like an outlier season. Linemates?

Bunting has been benefiting from playing with Auston Matthews, if he showed that kind of production with worse linemates, again, NJ would be crazy to not consider it. 

A great top-6 forward + a mid 1st round pick + a 2nd and a 3rd seems reasonable to move into the top 5 idk. 

[BigTramFan]

20 minutes ago, eeeeergh said:

I mean, if Hartman strung together another year or two of production like he had, I think NJ would be crazy to not consider that deal. But looks more like an outlier season. Linemates?

Bunting has been benefiting from playing with Auston Matthews, if he showed that kind of production with worse linemates, again, NJ would be crazy to not consider it. 

A great top-6 forward + a mid 1st round pick + a 2nd and a 3rd seems reasonable to move into the top 5 idk. 

All those guys have inflated 5v5 stats due to their linemates and also due to the amount of 5v5 minutes that they get because they are playing on a line with the top guys on their team. Garland, Hartman, Bunting have all done well to thrive in those situations, but playing lots of 5v5 minutes with the likes of Matthews, Kaprizov, Miller and Pettersson is the main reason they have great 5v5 stats.

[mll]

Fitzgerald was looking for an impact player with his 5th overall.  Now that they've moved up that pick is likely unavailable.  Doubt Garland falls in the difference maker category.  Boudreau refers to him as a 3rd liner when he compared Matthews playing with Marner while Pettersson was playing with 3rd liner Garland and made him better. 

 

A top-5 pick has been knowingly traded only 1x in the past 15 drafts.  In 2008 when Toronto traded with NYI to move up 2 spots to draft Luke Schenn:

 

7th overall + 2nd round pick (37th overall) + 3rd round pick (68th) for 5th overall.  

 

IE a high 2nd and a high 3rd just to move up 2 spots.  Here it's moving 13 spots when Garland is not even a high-end goal scoring winger.

 

Edited May 20, 2022 by mll

[IBatch]

This lineup looks great this season.   But it would only be a one year thing and as others have pointed out Dickinson is not a good 3rd C - 4th maybe that's it and even then he's better on the wing.   Would see if Sutter would come back maybe and offer him the league min.     That would bolster our bottom six and provide some depth.    However i don't know how that helps our cap past this year .... basically we are picking Forsberg over Miller which is fine but we'd have to expect Miller is gone just to pay Horvat and the lineup wouldn't be as good the following year.   That said IF somehow Allvin managed this - it would be both a minor miracle AND we'd be a much better team.   Manson ... yes please. 

[IBatch]

6 minutes ago, mll said:

Fitzgerald was looking for an impact player with his 5th overall.  Now that they've moved up that pick is likely unavailable.  Doubt Garland falls in the difference maker category.  Boudreau refers to him as a 3rd liner when he compared Matthews playing with Marner while Pettersson was playing with 3rd liner Garland and made him better. 

 

A top-5 pick has been knowingly traded only 1x in the past 15 drafts.  In 2008 when Toronto traded with NYI to move up 2 spots to draft Luke Schenn:

 

7th overall + 2nd round pick (37th overall) + 3rd round pick (68th) for 5th overall.  

 

IE a high 2nd and a high 3rd just to move up 2 spots.  Here it's moving 13 spots while pretty much cap dumping Garland who is really not a high end goal scoring winger.

Boudreau was putting a spark under Garlands ass.    And it worked.    I agree with the OP - Garland is a very good 5 x 5 player, while with Green he led our team.   He's also the reason why a Brock trade would be mitigated - and aside from EP, he draws the most penalties on the team.    He's not a third liner.  

[mll]

4 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Boudreau was putting a spark under Garlands ass.    And it worked.    I agree with the OP - Garland is a very good 5 x 5 player, while with Green he led our team.   He's also the reason why a Brock trade would be mitigated - and aside from EP, he draws the most penalties on the team.    He's not a third liner.  

Don't see it.  It was a podcast in Toronto where they were talking about potential stars on the roster.  It was not a quote picked up by anyone in Vancouver media and the discussion was about Pettersson's potential - not Garland.

 

Garland wouldn't have made the top-6 on most playoffs teams.  He wouldn't even have cracked the top-9 on STL or MIN.

 

Edited May 20, 2022 by mll

[IBatch]

56 minutes ago, mll said:

Don't see it.  It was a podcast in Toronto where they were talking about potential stars on the roster.  It was not a quote picked up by anyone in Vancouver media and the discussion was about Pettersson's potential - not Garland.

 

Garland wouldn't have made the top-6 on most playoffs teams.  He wouldn't even have cracked the top-9 on STL or MIN.

 

Yes i remember that comment.  All Garland did was score 5 x 5 ... 52 points worth in 77 games.   That's not a third liner.   He knows it, so does the coach and so does management.   Tickling the old motivator strings by calling him out in a nice (kind of) way worked down the stretch didn't it?  49 even strength points ... where does that put him not only on our team, but with every forward?    And he did that with 16:24 of ice time as well.   That's very very decent production 5 x 5 - and he was a plus 18 AND he drew penalties.   I'd hate to see him traded.    To me he's worth a first rounder every single time.   He's also fun to watch play.  
 

Edit:  He scored as many EV assists as Kopitar and Crosby, almost one of the top 30 forwards in the league in that respect.    Almost all the forwards ahead of him, are first line players.  

Edited May 20, 2022 by IBatch

[JM_]

1 hour ago, mll said:

Don't see it.  It was a podcast in Toronto where they were talking about potential stars on the roster.  It was not a quote picked up by anyone in Vancouver media and the discussion was about Pettersson's potential - not Garland.

 

Garland wouldn't have made the top-6 on most playoffs teams.  He wouldn't even have cracked the top-9 on STL or MIN.

 

I'm not sure this is a fair comment. Maybe he doesn't displace a player on those teams, but it doesn't mean he's not of similar quality either from a production pov. Those teams are also built more for size. 

[mll]

1 minute ago, JM_ said:

I'm not sure this is a fair comment. Maybe he doesn't displace a player on those teams, but it doesn't mean he's not of similar quality either from a production pov. Those teams are also built more for size. 

Kaprizov, Fiala and Zuccarello are 5'10 and under and all 3 are over ppg.  He's not displacing Kaprizov or Zuccarello on their top line.

 

On their 2nd line Boldy is 0.8ppg with 15 goals - just 2 less than Garland when he only made the team in January.  Fiala 9th at EV and that's with Freddy Gaudreau as his C and mostly Rask to start the season before Boldy made the team in January.  Foligno and Greenway play on their shutdown line and bring considerable size while being elite defensively.  Not a spot for Garland.