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We do not need to tear it down OR make big trades

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MtnHockeyGuy

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I tend to agree with you at least for the next year or two.

 

I don't think that will be what takes place though.

 

We really need a good 3C as you've identified and the pretty standard discussion focuses more on a legit top-end RHD.

 

If we had those two pieces we could predict ourselves becoming a legit contender. But we don't, and we have no real ability to get both (especially the RHD) without cutting drastically from other areas.

 

So the larger issue probably is the structure of how the team is set up to get over the current hump of 'almost-good-enough' to becoming a legit contender.

In order to do that we need to simultaneously become better while we clear cap space and restock our prospect cupboard.

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20 minutes ago, MtnHockeyGuy said:

Everyone knows the hole this team dug itself in for the first 2 months of the season. Everyone has seen the exciting rise the team performed for the remainder of the season. 

 

There is absolutely no reason to make any changes to the core. This team is filled with absolute workhorses and is exactly what is needed for playoff performances. Miller, Horvat, Pettersson, Boeser, Podkolzin, Garland, Ekman-Larsson, Myers, Schenn, Hughes, DEMKO, 4th line.... These dudes are solid. Yes, they make some gaffs, but every single player in the league will make gaffs. When you watch a team every single night, you will see mistakes. But guess what, if you were to watch any other team (Tampa, Toronto, Calgary, Edmonton, NYR, Florida...) every single night you will start to see mistakes as well. 

 

No team is perfect

 

Anything can happen in the playoffs

 

I am pretty darn excited to see what this team can do in 22/23. For those that want a tear down or to sell off our top assets, stop living in fantasy land and start realizing this team is actually really good. They proved it this season even without making the playoffs. Everyone wants new shiny toys when we have some pretty stellar shiny toys right in front of our eyes. 

 

If anything can be upgraded on, it could really be our 3C position. If this team is to make any trade I would expect it to be a guy like Dickinson or Poolman, to clear a bit of cap space to make room for Miller and Boeser. Yes, Boeser. I would be shocked if he doesnt pot 30+ next season. 

 

Stop thinking big changes need to happen. This team is good. Playoffs are coming in 2023 for Vancouver, and then anything can happen. 

 

I also think we will be a playoff team next year with our franchise goalie and one of the best regular season coaches in history, regardless of what happens with the roster. If Petey continues his late season form and BB takes another step along with a few other young guys, we may even be battling for home ice in the 1st round :fingerscrossed: 

 

There's going to be some unpopular moves to unravel some cap space, I'm sure, but I don't think they'll be blowing anything up.

 

All that said, isn't the goal is to become a regular cup competitor, not a squeak in and see what happens, type organization? The latter, seems such a 'mediocrity mindset' way of approaching building a team. 

 

 

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Frustratingly, I feel like I know less about Pettey now than when he was a rookie. If he is a first line centre we are closer than I think, if he is a great winger then I think we have some big holes to fill in the long run. 
If Pettey is a first line centre moving forward, than trading JTM for a solid package is probably the best thing but needs to get 3C and/or Q’s partner. 
If he is a winger we need to start trading some of the littles and sign JTM.  (and find a partner for Q). Those guys need to be surrounded by some size and nastiness. 
Podz will help but he isn’t enough grit for the top 6 alone, especially as Pearson is getting older. 

 

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34 minutes ago, BureBurrito said:

No changes = always fighting for the WC spot or less.

 

What a Canucks fan.

 

Fearless and progressive drive top teams and Cups, not lucky bounces and a 'hope' to just get into the playoffs.

And a great goalie (or one who finds greatness for a post season)

We have the great goalie part.  Got him for 4 more years for sure.  Maybe we need to go all in during those four years?  With Demko just getting into the playoffs could mean winning the Cup.  

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4 hours ago, MtnHockeyGuy said:

Everyone knows the hole this team dug itself in for the first 2 months of the season. Everyone has seen the exciting rise the team performed for the remainder of the season. 

 

There is absolutely no reason to make any changes to the core. This team is filled with absolute workhorses and is exactly what is needed for playoff performances. Miller, Horvat, Pettersson, Boeser, Podkolzin, Garland, Ekman-Larsson, Myers, Schenn, Hughes, DEMKO, 4th line.... These dudes are solid. Yes, they make some gaffs, but every single player in the league will make gaffs. When you watch a team every single night, you will see mistakes. But guess what, if you were to watch any other team (Tampa, Toronto, Calgary, Edmonton, NYR, Florida...) every single night you will start to see mistakes as well. 

 

No team is perfect

 

Anything can happen in the playoffs

 

I am pretty darn excited to see what this team can do in 22/23. For those that want a tear down or to sell off our top assets, stop living in fantasy land and start realizing this team is actually really good. They proved it this season even without making the playoffs. Everyone wants new shiny toys when we have some pretty stellar shiny toys right in front of our eyes. 

 

If anything can be upgraded on, it could really be our 3C position. If this team is to make any trade I would expect it to be a guy like Dickinson or Poolman, to clear a bit of cap space to make room for Miller and Boeser. Yes, Boeser. I would be shocked if he doesnt pot 30+ next season. 

 

Stop thinking big changes need to happen. This team is good. Playoffs are coming in 2023 for Vancouver, and then anything can happen. 

This version of the Canucks isn't nearly as bad as their record under Green would indicate, and is not nearly as good as their record under Boudreau would indicate.  The current version of the Canucks is a bubble playoff team, which makes them a group of pretenders at this point.

 

IMO, for the current version of the Canucks to sneak into the playoffs as a wildcard team:

  • Pettersson, Boeser and Horvat need to show up for all 82 regular season games;
  • Dickison and Poolman need to be shipped out for a bag of pucks to create $5M of cap flexibility;
  • Myers needs to keep his game simple (when he thinks he's the next coming of Larry Robinson, he stinks);
  • Hoglander needs to learn how to play on both sides of the puck;
  • each player not named Schenn, Miller, Hughes, Pettersson, Burroughs and Garland needs to play like they are 20 pounds heavier and 4 inches taller;
  • Spencer Martin needs to start 25 to 30 games and give them a .500 record (and not be yanked with regularity to ensure Demko can get the rest he needs, unlike the sieve Halak);
  • Special teams needs to be a whole lot better for the entire season;
  • Demko needs to be Demko;
  • and the obvious: a solid RHD (sorry, no disrespect to Luke Schenn) to play with Hughes (a Marc Methot to Erik Karlsson type player).
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12 minutes ago, lmm said:

I don't think it is "No standards" as much as it is "No context"

It is very popular to believe that this team is close, and there is a set of likeminded fans that will chime in "Here Here"

and every one pats each other on the back and says, "You get it"

these fans believe that the Canucks will all get better while the rest of the league stagnates or falls off

 

 

Really .

I find it the opposite.

 

I don't know how many places, and how many times, in how many threads the trade Miller mantra has been trumpeted. It dominated most GDT/PGTs this year. 

 

I would say most fans on CDC want to see what we can get for some of our big assets....in my mind pushing the re-tool into infinity. 

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5 minutes ago, bigbadcanucks said:

This version of the Canucks isn't nearly as bad as their record under Green would indicate, and is not nearly as good as their record under Boudreau would indicate.  The current version of the Canucks is a bubble playoff team, which makes them a group of pretenders at this point.

 

IMO, for the current version of the Canucks to sneak into the playoffs as a wildcard team:

  • Pettersson, Boeser and Horvat need to show up for all 82 regular season games;
  • Dickison and Poolman need to be shipped out for a bag of pucks to create $5M of cap flexibility;
  • Myers needs to keep his game simple (when he thinks he's the next coming of Larry Robinson, he stinks);
  • Hoglander needs to learn how to play on both sides of the puck;
  • each player not named Schenn, Miller, Hughes, Pettersson, Burroughs and Garland needs to play like they are 20 pounds heavier and 4 inches taller;
  • Spencer Martin needs to start 25 to 30 games and give them a .500 record (and not be yanked with regularity to ensure Demko can get the rest he needs, unlike the sieve Halak);
  • Special teams needs to be a whole lot better for the entire season;
  • Demko needs to be Demko;
  • and the obvious: a solid RHD (sorry, no disrespect to Luke Schenn) to play with Hughes (a Marc Methot to Erik Karlsson type player).

Demko makes us a Cup contender.  He can win playoff series.  That’s the key to winning Cups.  The time to go all in is during his next four years.  

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39 minutes ago, DrJockitch said:

Frustratingly, I feel like I know less about Pettey now than when he was a rookie. If he is a first line centre we are closer than I think, if he is a great winger then I think we have some big holes to fill in the long run. 
If Pettey is a first line centre moving forward, than trading JTM for a solid package is probably the best thing but needs to get 3C and/or Q’s partner. 
If he is a winger we need to start trading some of the littles and sign JTM.  (and find a partner for Q). Those guys need to be surrounded by some size and nastiness. 
Podz will help but he isn’t enough grit for the top 6 alone, especially as Pearson is getting older. 

 

Aside from the weakness of faceoffs, Petey has been a top 10 centre since entering the league in every other aspect.

 

His only shortcoming came while he was playing injured during the 20-21 season and while recovering the injury the first half of 21-22 and missing training camp.

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I think the Canucks need more than a couple of minor tweaks to become a contender. 

 

The D needs help.  Ekman-Larsson, Hughes, Dermott and Schenn are the only good D IMO

 

Pettersson isn't a dominant player (yet). He's still too easy to play against, and needs to put on muscle. Garland and Hoglander could struggle in the postseason as well.

 

Schenn is the only fighter/tough guy on the team. They need more of these guys who can play. More Podkolzins please. 

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People forget that we are going to get some development from our young players like Petey and Hughes and all those younger than them.  

 

Having said that, the discussion that has been going on for the past number of months is not wrong.

 

The Canucks need a 3C and a top 4 RHD and some cap space so that they can take advantage of opportunities to make deals as they come up from time to time.  They also have 3 top 6 centres.  Fans here have identified the moves to make and now it's a matter of execution.  Interviews with Rutherford have not shown that management is in disagreement with the fans.

 

The OP is right, the core is decent.  But they do need a little work and they need to be careful about it.

 

I really like the Hamonic move and that Allvin also picked up a serviceable bottom pair D at half the price.  If this is an example of the way he works, I'm not worried

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