We do not need to tear it down OR make big trades

[eeeeergh]

7 hours ago, MtnHockeyGuy said:

Everyone knows the hole this team dug itself in for the first 2 months of the season. Everyone has seen the exciting rise the team performed for the remainder of the season. 

 

There is absolutely no reason to make any changes to the core. This team is filled with absolute workhorses and is exactly what is needed for playoff performances. Miller, Horvat, Pettersson, Boeser, Podkolzin, Garland, Ekman-Larsson, Myers, Schenn, Hughes, DEMKO, 4th line.... These dudes are solid. Yes, they make some gaffs, but every single player in the league will make gaffs. When you watch a team every single night, you will see mistakes. But guess what, if you were to watch any other team (Tampa, Toronto, Calgary, Edmonton, NYR, Florida...) every single night you will start to see mistakes as well. 

 

No team is perfect

 

Anything can happen in the playoffs

 

I am pretty darn excited to see what this team can do in 22/23. For those that want a tear down or to sell off our top assets, stop living in fantasy land and start realizing this team is actually really good. They proved it this season even without making the playoffs. Everyone wants new shiny toys when we have some pretty stellar shiny toys right in front of our eyes. 

 

If anything can be upgraded on, it could really be our 3C position. If this team is to make any trade I would expect it to be a guy like Dickinson or Poolman, to clear a bit of cap space to make room for Miller and Boeser. Yes, Boeser. I would be shocked if he doesnt pot 30+ next season. 

 

Stop thinking big changes need to happen. This team is good. Playoffs are coming in 2023 for Vancouver, and then anything can happen. 

Our Defense needs significant changes, theres absolutely no disputing that.
We have Luke Schenn playing in our top-4, and Myers neutering OEL by requiring OEL to play a shutdown role. 

As is, our roster can't compete with the best teams in the league. 

[J-23]

Thank god management said they are prepared to make non-emotional decisions.

[fanfor42]

7 minutes ago, eeeeergh said:

Our Defense needs significant changes, theres absolutely no disputing that.
We have Luke Schenn playing in our top-4, and Myers neutering OEL by requiring OEL to play a shutdown role. 

As is, our roster can't compete with the best teams in the league. 

Our defense needs a top pairing RD of similar age to pair with Hughes.

 

After that the situation is not as bad as you think.

 

Myers and OEL are  a good second pair. OEL is not being neutered by Myers (whatever that is supposed to mean lol).  OEL is not playing top pp time because of Hughes and he is being used as a shut down guy not because of Myers but again because that is not a role Hughes can play. Those are the reasons his production is down. But he has been a good second pairing D for us.  No question.

 

Depth defensemen include Schenn Dermott Rathbone Burroughs and if healthy Poolman.  Not bad and comparable with bottom 5 - 7 across the league.

 

 

[eeeeergh]

21 minutes ago, fanfor42 said:

Our defense needs a top pairing RD of similar age to pair with Hughes.

 

After that the situation is not as bad as you think.

 

Myers and OEL are  a good second pair. OEL is not being neutered by Myers (whatever that is supposed to mean lol).  OEL is not playing top pp time because of Hughes and he is being used as a shut down guy not because of Myers but again because that is not a role Hughes can play. Those are the reasons his production is down. But he has been a good second pairing D for us.  No question.

 

Depth defensemen include Schenn Dermott Rathbone Burroughs and if healthy Poolman.  Not bad and comparable with bottom 5 - 7 across the league.

 

 

Myers and OEL are not a good second pair, if we want them to generate anything offensively.

Visibly, OEL is playing a completely different game than he was in Arizona (he even said so himself that his role here is completely different). In Arizona, OEL would carry the puck into the zone, and score goals from high danger areas. Because Myers is not defensively capable, OEL hangs back and just takes those wrist shots from the point, which is why his goal totals are way down. 

Watch some of his games in AZ, and watch a few of his games here, its night and day. 

Myers needs to be shipped out, and swapped for a stay at home defenseman, so OEL can play his game. 

The big changes:
1. Top pair defenseman partner for Hughes
2. Swap out Myers for a shutdown defenseman who can play in the top-4 and eat up 20 mins/night

That is a complete overhaul of the defense imo. 

[Phil_314]

1 hour ago, eeeeergh said:

Myers and OEL are not a good second pair, if we want them to generate anything offensively.

Visibly, OEL is playing a completely different game than he was in Arizona (he even said so himself that his role here is completely different). In Arizona, OEL would carry the puck into the zone, and score goals from high danger areas. Because Myers is not defensively capable, OEL hangs back and just takes those wrist shots from the point, which is why his goal totals are way down. 

Watch some of his games in AZ, and watch a few of his games here, its night and day. 

Myers needs to be shipped out, and swapped for a stay at home defenseman, so OEL can play his game. 

The big changes:
1. Top pair defenseman partner for Hughes
2. Swap out Myers for a shutdown defenseman who can play in the top-4 and eat up 20 mins/night

That is a complete overhaul of the defense imo. 

Very much agreed with the Myers point (too bad the ship has probably sailed, but Hamonic is actually quite steady with 3 points and +5 in 19 games with OTT, so a swap would shed $3 million in cap and provide OEL with a solid D-partner).  That and re-purpose or ship out Dickinson (and Poolman, unless he's LTIR) and get that 3rd C and we should be good.

Edited May 24, 2022 by Phil_314

[lmm]

9 hours ago, bishopshodan said:

Really .

I find it the opposite.

 

I don't know how many places, and how many times, in how many threads the trade Miller mantra has been trumpeted. It dominated most GDT/PGTs this year. 

 

I would say most fans on CDC want to see what we can get for some of our big assets....in my mind pushing the re-tool into infinity. 

ITS TRUE THAT THAT KIND OF TALK IS DOWN a little right now, but the OP and the first 2 posts after feel we are close.

these types of threads pop up regularly

there was a large contingent that wanted to "Let this group try for the playoffs" there is the ever-present JB trades, he did good thread

there is a group, although a little quiet right now , that believe the only thing necessary last season was a coaching change, and that Jim B could have stayed

look how many posts with rosters have the same 4th line we ended last season with

there is a pretty large group who really only want to see Hunt, (man do they ever want to see Hunt go) Poolmen Myers, and Halak  go, and bring in Rathbone and Martin and think we are going to win the West

 

[ShawnAntoski]

14 hours ago, MtnHockeyGuy said:

Everyone knows the hole this team dug itself in for the first 2 months of the season. Everyone has seen the exciting rise the team performed for the remainder of the season. 

 

There is absolutely no reason to make any changes to the core. This team is filled with absolute workhorses and is exactly what is needed for playoff performances. Miller, Horvat, Pettersson, Boeser, Podkolzin, Garland, Ekman-Larsson, Myers, Schenn, Hughes, DEMKO, 4th line.... These dudes are solid. Yes, they make some gaffs, but every single player in the league will make gaffs. When you watch a team every single night, you will see mistakes. But guess what, if you were to watch any other team (Tampa, Toronto, Calgary, Edmonton, NYR, Florida...) every single night you will start to see mistakes as well. 

 

No team is perfect

 

Anything can happen in the playoffs

 

I am pretty darn excited to see what this team can do in 22/23. For those that want a tear down or to sell off our top assets, stop living in fantasy land and start realizing this team is actually really good. They proved it this season even without making the playoffs. Everyone wants new shiny toys when we have some pretty stellar shiny toys right in front of our eyes. 

 

If anything can be upgraded on, it could really be our 3C position. If this team is to make any trade I would expect it to be a guy like Dickinson or Poolman, to clear a bit of cap space to make room for Miller and Boeser. Yes, Boeser. I would be shocked if he doesnt pot 30+ next season. 

 

Stop thinking big changes need to happen. This team is good. Playoffs are coming in 2023 for Vancouver, and then anything can happen. 

The 'anything can happen approach' happens ever so often - just like the Habs Cinderella run last year but the deeper & more talented team, will eventually pull it out in the end - most of the time.  In the past trade deadline, we saw the contenders get deeper and even then it wasn't enough for some: FLA.  Too bad, for FLA that there path to the cup had them going through an experienced and very comparable team, in the two time champ Lightning.  The playoffs is nasty and unbiased and in the end luck, is still a factor on who wins due the parity that the cap had created....

Edited May 24, 2022 by ShawnAntoski

[smithers joe]

we need to correct the cap problems. for me that means trading miller and myers, poolman and dickinson. love JT but he is our best chip to move forward. losing will hurt in the short term but hopefully the team can be built to challenge for a cup for years to come.

[Alflives]

20 minutes ago, smithers joe said:

we need to correct the cap problems. for me that means trading miller and myers, poolman and dickinson. love JT but he is our best chip to move forward. losing will hurt in the short term but hopefully the team can be built to challenge for a cup for years to come.

Poolman and Dickinson would cost us sweetener to move.  We can’t afford to add.

Garland makes the same as those two combined, and he has positive value.

Miller, Garland are out.  Maybe Myers if JR can find a buyer.

[Coconuts]

No, I won't stop believing this team needs big change. I've been advocating for big change since November. I don't think we need to strip things down, but a reset would be great.

 

Trade Miller, clear out cap, build around the youth and take a gradual approach to team building as opposed to the "anything can happen come playoff time" bit that's had us spinning our wheels in mediocrity for years. Despite his lack of success Benning was trying to just get us into the playoffs. 

 

I don't think we're as close as some folks do, and despite the run down the stretch I think it's incredibly naive to believe this team will make the playoffs and just waltz to a final over the next few seasons. I think our window is further away, says.. maybe four seasons.

 

Most teams that make the final have to struggle and fail for a while before breaking through. We've seen it from Tampa, Washington, and St. Louis in recent years. Colorado is still trying to break through, as is Carolina. We've made the playoffs twice in nine years now, we'll likely have to battle for a while.

 

We haven't won in 50+ years, you think people would be used to patiently waiting.

Edited May 24, 2022 by Coconuts

[kloubek]

I think if all the stars aligned this season, we would have made the playoffs and quite possibly have gotten past the first round. We just had such a horrible start that we were playing catch-up all season. 

 

The issue is that I see Miller likely being dealt, and without his contributions the first sentence of this post would not be true. If we expect to win with this group, we need the rest of our players to step up - with stars like Petey and Boeser needing to play well out of the gate and guys like Podz and Hogs stepping up and contributing more. We must stop relying on Demko to save our skin every game, and as such we need at least 1 defensive stalwart on the blueline which we haven't had since Tanev left. We could use more overall speed to keep the puck in the o-zone, and some extra size to make us harder to play against in the playoffs. I think the return for Miller will be quite key as far as the effect it has on our team's ability to compete next season.

I actually like our core. I think we are hamstrung by the cap (as are most teams are) and if we want to fill the holes, management is going to have to get creative to clear space. Given what I consider to be almost neutral value, I think Myers is the best place to ship out salary as long as he can be replaced by an appropriate role defenseman. I also think that although Poolman holds negative value, management will have to find a way to get him off the books. While Dickinson may not be the ideal 3c, I'm actually tentatively hopeful he will have a rebound year.

[awalk]

12 hours ago, eeeeergh said:

Myers and OEL are not a good second pair, if we want them to generate anything offensively.

Visibly, OEL is playing a completely different game than he was in Arizona (he even said so himself that his role here is completely different). In Arizona, OEL would carry the puck into the zone, and score goals from high danger areas. Because Myers is not defensively capable, OEL hangs back and just takes those wrist shots from the point, which is why his goal totals are way down. 

Watch some of his games in AZ, and watch a few of his games here, its night and day. 

Myers needs to be shipped out, and swapped for a stay at home defenseman, so OEL can play his game. 

The big changes:
1. Top pair defenseman partner for Hughes
2. Swap out Myers for a shutdown defenseman who can play in the top-4 and eat up 20 mins/night

That is a complete overhaul of the defense imo. 

Agreed, not to mention how cost ineffective that pairing would be as a 2nd pair.  

[CanucksJay]

16 hours ago, Chris12345 said:

I agree, we need some big, tough, scary dudes.

 

At least 1 more on d and 2 more on F.

 

Would that be enough to go all in?

 

SO say they somehow got rid of Dickinson, Poolman, and replaced them with Manson, Deslauriers and another player thats tough but can also play, do we go for it during demko's next 4 years?

 

Anyway, Canucks should back up the money truck for Deslauriers.

He's everything we wanted in Ferland and more.

Just having him will change team mentality.

 

Teams play bigger when they know they can lean on their tough guys to have their backs.

[CanucksJay]

1 hour ago, Coconuts said:

No, I won't stop believing this team needs big change. I've been advocating for big change since November. I don't think we need to strip things down, but a reset would be great.

 

Trade Miller, clear out cap, build around the youth and take a gradual approach to team building as opposed to the "anything can happen come playoff time" bit that's had us spinning our wheels in mediocrity for years. Despite his lack of success Benning was trying to just get us into the playoffs. 

 

I don't think we're as close as some folks do, and despite the run down the stretch I think it's incredibly naive to believe this team will make the playoffs and just waltz to a final over the next few seasons. I think our window is further away, says.. maybe four seasons.

 

Most teams that make the final have to struggle and fail for a while before breaking through. We've seen it from Tampa, Washington, and St. Louis in recent years. Colorado is still trying to break through, as is Carolina. We've made the playoffs twice in nine years now, we'll likely have to battle for a while.

 

We haven't won in 50+ years, you think people would be used to patiently waiting.

If you dont think we need to strip it down, I don't think you're advocating for big change? More like a retool?

 

I dont think Myers, Miller or Boeser  leaving is big change depending on who we get back.

Big change is Demko, Horvat, Hughes, Petey being traded and I dont see that happening. As far as I'm concerned, those 4 guys are the core with Podz being the 5th.

Hogz, Garland, Pearson are good top 9 players but again, them leaving would be a retool in my opinion.

 

I would define big change as a young guy from the core being shipped out.

 

Mller was our points leader but if he doesnt sign a new contract this offseason, I'd be fine with unloading him.

 

 

 

[mll]

1 hour ago, Coconuts said:

No, I won't stop believing this team needs big change. I've been advocating for big change since November. I don't think we need to strip things down, but a reset would be great.

 

Trade Miller, clear out cap, build around the youth and take a gradual approach to team building as opposed to the "anything can happen come playoff time" bit that's had us spinning our wheels in mediocrity for years. Despite his lack of success Benning was trying to just get us into the playoffs. 

 

I don't think we're as close as some folks do, and despite the run down the stretch I think it's incredibly naive to believe this team will make the playoffs and just waltz to a final over the next few seasons. I think our window is further away, says.. maybe four seasons.

 

Most teams that make the final have to struggle and fail for a while before breaking through. We've seen it from Tampa, Washington, and St. Louis in recent years. Colorado is still trying to break through, as is Carolina. We've made the playoffs twice in nine years now, we'll likely have to battle for a while.

 

We haven't won in 50+ years, you think people would be used to patiently waiting.

 

The 2 year timeline to be contenders seem ambitious under that approach.  It feels like they are going to be more aggressive than that and look for players who have been misused/buried and could flourish in a larger role or different system.  Dermott might be the start of such targets.  

An easy example is Neal Pionk.  Pretty much everyone mocked WPG for wanting him as part of the return for Trouba.  Maurice explained rather diplomatically that they felt NYR's system was a work in progress but that he had excellent gap control - ie it was the system letting him down.  He's now a reliable top-4 D.  Matheson looks to have worked out quite well in Pittsburgh after struggling in Florida.  

 

Rutherford on the Seravalli's podcast was asked about trades/free agency and identified players 26 and under as their primary targets.  Talked of wanting cap space so they could try and take advantage of cap strapped teams.  

 

[Gawdzukes]

3 hours ago, smithers joe said:

we need to correct the cap problems. for me that means trading miller and myers, poolman and dickinson. love JT but he is our best chip to move forward. losing will hurt in the short term but hopefully the team can be built to challenge for a cup for years to come.

An experienced voice that knows the truth. 

 

Thanks Joe!

[stawns]

23 hours ago, MtnHockeyGuy said:

Everyone knows the hole this team dug itself in for the first 2 months of the season. Everyone has seen the exciting rise the team performed for the remainder of the season. 

 

There is absolutely no reason to make any changes to the core. This team is filled with absolute workhorses and is exactly what is needed for playoff performances. Miller, Horvat, Pettersson, Boeser, Podkolzin, Garland, Ekman-Larsson, Myers, Schenn, Hughes, DEMKO, 4th line.... These dudes are solid. Yes, they make some gaffs, but every single player in the league will make gaffs. When you watch a team every single night, you will see mistakes. But guess what, if you were to watch any other team (Tampa, Toronto, Calgary, Edmonton, NYR, Florida...) every single night you will start to see mistakes as well. 

 

No team is perfect

 

Anything can happen in the playoffs

 

I am pretty darn excited to see what this team can do in 22/23. For those that want a tear down or to sell off our top assets, stop living in fantasy land and start realizing this team is actually really good. They proved it this season even without making the playoffs. Everyone wants new shiny toys when we have some pretty stellar shiny toys right in front of our eyes. 

 

If anything can be upgraded on, it could really be our 3C position. If this team is to make any trade I would expect it to be a guy like Dickinson or Poolman, to clear a bit of cap space to make room for Miller and Boeser. Yes, Boeser. I would be shocked if he doesnt pot 30+ next season. 

 

Stop thinking big changes need to happen. This team is good. Playoffs are coming in 2023 for Vancouver, and then anything can happen. 

and if Demko goes down, they'll be a bottom 5 team.  There are serious issues with the roster that need to be balanced or this team will flounder forever

[stawns]

1 hour ago, mll said:

 

The 2 year timeline to be contenders seem ambitious under that approach.  It feels like they are going to be more aggressive than that and look for players who have been misused/buried and could flourish in a larger role or different system.  Dermott might be the start of such targets.  

An easy example is Neal Pionk.  Pretty much everyone mocked WPG for wanting him as part of the return for Trouba.  Maurice explained rather diplomatically that they felt NYR's system was a work in progress but that he had excellent gap control - ie it was the system letting him down.  He's now a reliable top-4 D.  Matheson looks to have worked out quite well in Pittsburgh after struggling in Florida.  

 

Rutherford on the Seravalli's podcast was asked about trades/free agency and identified players 26 and under as their primary targets.  Talked of wanting cap space so they could try and take advantage of cap strapped teams.  

 

two years to being a regular playoff team, rather than stretching to be a bubble team.

[grandmaster]

20 hours ago, Alflives said:

Actually, if we want a chance to build a team that can win the Cup, we should be keeping Demko and Petey.  Hughes to Jersey for a HUGE haul.  Miller, and Bo for picks and prospects.  Garland too.  

 

You are proposing getting rid of potentially the greatest defenceman in franchise history and all of the heart and soul of the team.
 

Petey will also be gone in 2 years, no way he is signing an extension here.

 

Demko’s numbers and confidence will go to absolute crap as well from all that losing, you will see his play suffer big time.

 

Sorry dude but your proposal is not acceptable!

[eeeeergh]

2 hours ago, awalk said:

Agreed, not to mention how cost ineffective that pairing would be as a 2nd pair.  

100%. Its brutally expensive, and a 1 dimensional shutdown defenseman would come out cheaper than Myers anyway. Myers got paid the big bucks b/c hes a puck moving defenseman.