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We do not need to tear it down OR make big trades

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MtnHockeyGuy

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3 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Yup.  Myers is very easily replaceable and for a lot less on the cap.  

I keep having to write this but...It's not really about "replacing" him. He's a perfectly fine, veteran, top 4, RH'd, 2 way with size D who can skate and put up decent secondary offense.

 

Nothing wrong with that at all. Just not remotely a fit with the players we have on our left side, and particularly in our top 4 (where he really needs to play given his ability and cap allocation). But if he's not a fit there...

 

Fact is, we already got a better, higher end "replacement" in OEL. Both guys need a solid, defense first guy to play with. Even if they're technically not as good of players overall, they're actually a better fit. And as a bonus, they're also cheaper.

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11 hours ago, CanucksJay said:

If you dont think we need to strip it down, I don't think you're advocating for big change? More like a retool?

 

I dont think Myers, Miller or Boeser  leaving is big change depending on who we get back.

Big change is Demko, Horvat, Hughes, Petey being traded and I dont see that happening. As far as I'm concerned, those 4 guys are the core with Podz being the 5th.

Hogz, Garland, Pearson are good top 9 players but again, them leaving would be a retool in my opinion.

 

I would define big change as a young guy from the core being shipped out.

 

Mller was our points leader but if he doesnt sign a new contract this offseason, I'd be fine with unloading him.

 

 

 

Miller would have a bigger impact of loss than losing Bo. Comparing a superstar to a second-line centre.

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Just now, aGENT said:

I keep having to write this but...It's not really about "replacing" him. He's a perfectly fine, veteran, top 4, RH'd, 2 way with size D who can skate and put up decent secondary offense.

 

Nothing wrong with that at all. Just not remotely a fit with the players we have on our left side, and particularly in our top 4 (where he really needs to play given his ability and cap allocation). But if he's not a fit there...

 

Fact is, we already got a better, higher end "replacement" in OEL. Both guys need a solid, defense first guy to play with. Even if they're technically not as good of players overall, they're actually a better fit. And as a bonus, they're also cheaper.

Myers is not the lead guy on a top four pair.  He is carried by OEL.  Myers would be the gop guy on a 5/6 pair.  He’s way overpaid for what he can do.  If JR can “Hamonic” Myers to a sucker team we will be laughing.  

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2 minutes ago, aGENT said:

No, he's just an ill fit with OEL. They both play the same type of game (OEL at a higher, first pair level). We'd get more out of both if we had a "McNabb" or "Tanev" to play with either of them.

 

Myers would be just fine on a second pair with a guy like McNabb. He's not remotely a "third pair" level defender. Our defense is just poorly constructed, with ill fitting parts. It's no more a reflection of his individual ability any more that it was of OEL having a "down" year playing with him. 

Actually OEL makes Myers useful.  Myers is a terrible top four player.  I’m hoping JR can dumperoo the “Chaos Giraffe.  

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1 minute ago, aGENT said:

At the expense of OEL' s offensive game.

 

Because they're an ill fit.

 

My ignore button finger is getting itchy again.

Noooooo!  

Alf loves Myers!  His neck is every Malmacian’s dream!  :frantic:

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28 minutes ago, aGENT said:

I keep having to write this but...It's not really about "replacing" him. He's a perfectly fine, veteran, top 4, RH'd, 2 way with size D who can skate and put up decent secondary offense.

 

Nothing wrong with that at all. Just not remotely a fit with the players we have on our left side, and particularly in our top 4 (where he really needs to play given his ability and cap allocation). But if he's not a fit there...

 

Fact is, we already got a better, higher end "replacement" in OEL. Both guys need a solid, defense first guy to play with. Even if they're technically not as good of players overall, they're actually a better fit. And as a bonus, they're also cheaper.

yes exactly, well said!

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34 minutes ago, MrCanuck94 said:

Miller would have a bigger impact of loss than losing Bo. Comparing a superstar to a second-line centre.

Yeah looking at this season's performance for sure but I don't know if i could count him as part of the future core. 

For me, I don't like his hockey iq, his age and the salary he's going to make. 

I've said it numerous times. Miller plays like a gambler. He takes risks to produce offense. We've seen him on the winning side of most things this year but his play is not conducive to future success. Even this year, we've seen him make poor decisions with the puck on numerous occasions. Every now and then it bites him in the butt. We've seen it happen in OT. He's gassed but sees a scoring chance so he stays on and tries to drive to the net and then loses the puck and doesn't have the energy to back check. 

On the power play, he telegraphs the cross ice seam pass to Petey which gets picked off and cleared. 

In our own zone, he's thinking about transitioning to a scoring chance and tries to  make a play in our own zone which gets picked off and then we spend the rest of the shift doing a fire drill in our own zone. I can't stand plays like that. 

Poor decisions... 

Guys that are looking to make the kind of money he's looking for don't make plays like that. 

Their play should be net positive in that they should either make a safe play or create a scoring chance when they can. They shouldn't be giving up scoring chances to create offense. 

It's great when you have Demko in net but if we could trade Miller for 2 Podkolzins, I'd do it in a heart beat. 

Miller gambled in how he played this year and hit the jackpot. 

His stock had never been higher. It can only go down. 

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On 5/23/2022 at 3:01 PM, Alflives said:

Actually, if we want a chance to build a team that can win the Cup, we should be keeping Demko and Petey.  Hughes to Jersey for a HUGE haul.  Miller, and Bo for picks and prospects.  Garland too.  

Very very hard to find centres and we have 3.. Trade Miller or Horvat but never never both...Then we have to trade for a #2 centre doesn't make sense????

 

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33 minutes ago, CanucksJay said:

Yeah looking at this season's performance for sure but I don't know if i could count him as part of the future core. 

For me, I don't like his hockey iq, his age and the salary he's going to make. 

I've said it numerous times. Miller plays like a gambler. He takes risks to produce offense. We've seen him on the winning side of most things this year but his play is not conducive to future success. Even this year, we've seen him make poor decisions with the puck on numerous occasions. Every now and then it bites him in the butt. We've seen it happen in OT. He's gassed but sees a scoring chance so he stays on and tries to drive to the net and then loses the puck and doesn't have the energy to back check. 

On the power play, he telegraphs the cross ice seam pass to Petey which gets picked off and cleared. 

In our own zone, he's thinking about transitioning to a scoring chance and tries to  make a play in our own zone which gets picked off and then we spend the rest of the shift doing a fire drill in our own zone. I can't stand plays like that. 

Poor decisions... 

Guys that are looking to make the kind of money he's looking for don't make plays like that. 

Their play should be net positive in that they should either make a safe play or create a scoring chance when they can. They shouldn't be giving up scoring chances to create offense. 

It's great when you have Demko in net but if we could trade Miller for 2 Podkolzins, I'd do it in a heart beat. 

Miller gambled in how he played this year and hit the jackpot. 

His stock had never been higher. It can only go down. 

Fair points about his bad habits, his frustration and lazy moments on ice have definitely rubbed me the wrong way at times as well, but regardless of those, he has elite hockey IQ, playmaking and a really good shot. A legit 1C while being only 2 years older than Bo, which isn't much. JT and Quinn drove our powerplay most of the season.

 

Bo is a good complementary 2C who's goal scoring came a lot from JT Miller creating the play, but he doesn't possess any elite skillset aside from faceoffs.

 

The gap in skill level doesn't really overtake the 2 year age gap for me personally. Regardless, I'm open to trading anyone that isn't Petey, Quinn or Demko if the $ doesn't make sense for younger assets for sure.

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2 hours ago, CanucksJay said:

Yeah looking at this season's performance for sure but I don't know if i could count him as part of the future core. 

For me, I don't like his hockey iq, his age and the salary he's going to make. 

I've said it numerous times. Miller plays like a gambler. He takes risks to produce offense. We've seen him on the winning side of most things this year but his play is not conducive to future success. Even this year, we've seen him make poor decisions with the puck on numerous occasions. Every now and then it bites him in the butt. We've seen it happen in OT. He's gassed but sees a scoring chance so he stays on and tries to drive to the net and then loses the puck and doesn't have the energy to back check. 

On the power play, he telegraphs the cross ice seam pass to Petey which gets picked off and cleared. 

In our own zone, he's thinking about transitioning to a scoring chance and tries to  make a play in our own zone which gets picked off and then we spend the rest of the shift doing a fire drill in our own zone. I can't stand plays like that. 

Poor decisions... 

Guys that are looking to make the kind of money he's looking for don't make plays like that. 

Their play should be net positive in that they should either make a safe play or create a scoring chance when they can. They shouldn't be giving up scoring chances to create offense. 

It's great when you have Demko in net but if we could trade Miller for 2 Podkolzins, I'd do it in a heart beat. 

Miller gambled in how he played this year and hit the jackpot. 

His stock had never been higher. It can only go down. 

Well said. Your top players should be setting an example and showing the younger players how to play. Miller's defensive lapses and yes "gambling" continually to score points at the expense of goals against was a horrible example this year. Especially in the first 50-60 games where no one on the outside even cared or really questioned his play much. Back then he was routinely doing no look spinaramas and through the leg passes to no one in his own end. To his credit he cleaned it up somewhat at the end of the year. Still,  not a good showing in that category.

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I agree with you except for your grammar mistake.

 Title should be: We do not need to tear it down NOR make big trades

 

I am nervous, saw that the Devils are open to trading the 2nd overall pick for an impact player, pretty sure Hughes would love to play with his brother, but I don't want to lose Hughes - as they say, a bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush.

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On 5/23/2022 at 1:03 PM, MrCanuck94 said:

It's not about selling off top assets, like JR said, if the $ requested doesn't make sense, then we'll move on from pieces for other younger assets via trade.

 

The goal is to be a perennial contender, not the previous regime's mindset of "get in, anything can happen" and we're quite a ways away from that.

 

Lot of work to be done on the cap value and asset management side of things within the organization.

While I agree with the building a sustainable product I think that premise should exclude moving any of the core for cap reasons or to aquire picks.

The thought of trading JT for even a top 5 pick this season seems ridiculous to me.

Petey, Horvat,  JT, Quinn, Brock, Podz,  Demko Garland, OEL, Hoglander, is the guys from the roster I would hate to see moved, with the top 7 being the main core.

 guys like Garland  Hoglander, OEL, Myers, if they brought back a piece that made the team better so be it but not just for the sake of clearing cap.

 

Everyone talks about how good the team was after Bruce took over but we seldom hear how many crucial players missed games after the coaching change from injury or quarantine. 

We had the 3rd most man games missed but #1 as far as Dmen went and we played so many games missing several key players that I think Bruce would have had an even better record.

 

If we trade JT IMO, it will be a bigger blunder than any move the previous regime did.

This guy has 217 points in 200 games while being the heartbeat and vocal leader of the team and who cares if he's 29, plenty of guys are producing at high-levels in their 30-35 age and watching these playoffs there is absolutely no doubt that his style screams playoffs.

With the cap going up a million every season for the next 2-3 seasons and an expected huge jump after that along with other ways of creating cap flexibility, trading our best player seems like the type of move we as fans look back on as one move we wish never happened.

 

Our coach believes in this core more than our puppet GM and JR the puppeteer and he's earned my trust far more than JR who if you follow the Pens had been a disaster for awhile before he stepped down and when you look back at his whole career with the Canes and Pens he inherited great teams opposed to actually building them. The fact he hired his protege made me believe he had every intention of being the real GM. Hope I'm wrong but the way he handled the Bruce contract really bugged me, not even the fact he didn't extend him but the reasons he gave to justify it ( 60 games isn't enough but 82 is?) Were just so dumb. Sorry just don't have much faith with those 2 but again hope I'm wrong.

 

 

 

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12 minutes ago, Heretic said:

I agree with you except for your grammar mistake.

 Title should be: We do not need to tear it down NOR make big trades

 

I am nervous, saw that the Devils are open to trading the 2nd overall pick for an impact player, pretty sure Hughes would love to play with his brother, but I don't want to lose Hughes - as they say, a bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush.

You actually think any GM would trade Quinn Hughes the best player from the 2018 draft signed for six years at a steal of a contract for the #2 pick?  Quinn Hughes at 22 blew away Adam Fox's 22 year-old season and had a comparable season to Cales 22 year-old season on a worse team and not sheltered like Makar was.

 

You call out someone for a simple grammar mistake, only to suggest that a magic bean might be enough to get one of the top 3 D under 25? A guy who according to most experts goes #1 in a re-draft over a kid that some dubbed the best prospect since #97.

 

Yes I know you said you didn't advocate for it but to even suggest it could happen, Is more egregious than any grammar error!

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1 hour ago, Alienhuggyflow said:

You actually think any GM would trade Quinn Hughes the best player from the 2018 draft signed for six years at a steal of a contract for the #2 pick?  Quinn Hughes at 22 blew away Adam Fox's 22 year-old season and had a comparable season to Cales 22 year-old season on a worse team and not sheltered like Makar was.

 

You call out someone for a simple grammar mistake, only to suggest that a magic bean might be enough to get one of the top 3 D under 25? A guy who according to most experts goes #1 in a re-draft over a kid that some dubbed the best prospect since #97.

 

Yes I know you said you didn't advocate for it but to even suggest it could happen, Is more egregious than any grammar error!

I didn't suggest to trade him at all - in reply, do you actually think the GM's rule the players?  

Sorry, if Quinn Hughes wants out - he will get out, the players(and their agents) run the league.  

 

For reference, click on points to sort the list by which player has the most points from that draft class: 

https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/nhl2018e.html

 

 

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2 hours ago, Heretic said:

I agree with you except for your grammar mistake.

 Title should be: We do not need to tear it down NOR make big trades

 

I am nervous, saw that the Devils are open to trading the 2nd overall pick for an impact player, pretty sure Hughes would love to play with his brother, but I don't want to lose Hughes - as they say, a bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush.

Glad that someone has not lost their grammEr skills!   With a sharp eye like yours and if you have knowledge in French - a carreer with the "Language Police" awaits in Quebec. 

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1 hour ago, RU SERIOUS said:

Glad that someone has not lost their grammEr skills!   With a sharp eye like yours and if you have knowledge in French - a carreer with the "Language Police" awaits in Quebec. 

Airplane joke?  What's grammer? 

Québec!  Go Nordiques GO! 

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Ok so you want to keep what we got and build on it I get it. Ok lets Build a cup perennial contender . 

As is.

 

 Left Wing - Miller -  Boeser

Podkolzin - Pettersson - Hoglander 

 Pearson - Horvat - Garland

Highmore - Lammikko - Lockwood

 

ELO - Myers

Hughes  - Schenn

Dermontt  - Poolman

 

Demko  -  Martin

 

Rathbone , Burroughs , Dickinson

 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Changes out, Poolman , Dickinson

Changes in , Paul , Motte, Gudbranson

 

 

N. Paul - Miller -  Boeser

Podkolzin - Pettersson - Hoglander 

 Pearson - Horvat - Garland

Highmore - Lammikko - Motte

 

ELO - Myers

Hughes  - Schenn

Dermontt/ Rathbone  - Gudbranson

 

Demko  -  Martin 

 

Lockwood, Dermott . Burroughs

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Now  Podkolzin , Hoglander , have to be 50 point guys , ELO and Myers need to play better , Rathbone or Dermott have to be good as well

 

No big changes but playoff bound 

 

 

 

 

Needs

      need to draft better to be a top contender. we have had too many misses in the top two rounds.

 

 

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On 5/23/2022 at 10:23 PM, Crabcakes said:

People forget that we are going to get some development from our young players like Petey and Hughes and all those younger than them.  

 

Having said that, the discussion that has been going on for the past number of months is not wrong.

 

The Canucks need a 3C and a top 4 RHD and some cap space so that they can take advantage of opportunities to make deals as they come up from time to time.  They also have 3 top 6 centres.  Fans here have identified the moves to make and now it's a matter of execution.  Interviews with Rutherford have not shown that management is in disagreement with the fans.

 

The OP is right, the core is decent.  But they do need a little work and they need to be careful about it.

 

I really like the Hamonic move and that Allvin also picked up a serviceable bottom pair D at half the price.  If this is an example of the way he works, I'm not worried

The last paragraph...I really liked that he didn't blow anything thing up "just to make a move" down the stretch.   They ended up playing like a top team and almost slipped in.   Considering where our special teams were at the start and how they were the last 25-30 games...wow what a turnaround.   There wasn't really player on the roster that didn't play better then their norm on this team the last couple years, or for newer faces this season.    IF they come into the season playing THAT way, like the OP brings up, they wont need to make many moves next season.    But think they will inevitably lose one of Miller/Horvat/Brock, and won't lose sight of that.   But they don't need to do that this year. 

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