Discussion - Value of Bo Horvat

[NucknAsia]

We've seen alot of threads about moving Miller, Boeser etc, but not much has been said about Bo Horvat. First off, let me say I respect and appreciate what Bo brings to the Canucks. He is an incredibly focused, hard worker who never takes a night off, has consistently been a quiet leader for this team through his effort, work ethic and on and off ice performance. A true canuck.

That being said, with his contract up at the end of next year, his age will be 28 and a UFA (one and half years younger than Miller) and as such, is he possibly seen as higher value than Miller to other teams, while Miller is (in my view) higher value to us.

 

While I am sure some will say we can't trade our captain, really we must consider all alternatives. I do think Bo is more expendable than Miller if we have to move one, and yes the age difference does matter, that can potentially also bring back more in a trade. Teams would line up for him.

 

What are people's thoughts? What's his value? is he higher, lower, same as Miller? Does he get us the trade with NYR we wanted? Schneider, Lafrenierre, and a pick? Does he get us NJ second overall and a young DMan, plus?

 

[BPA]

Great at faceoffs.  Plays PP and PK.  Responsible 200ft game.  Got 30g last year.

 

Minimum 1st (mid round but preferably top 10), top prospect, and roster player.

 

I would say value-wise, slightly less the Miller cuz 99pts is an impressive feat for any player.

 

 

 

 

[Nucker 67]

I think the Canucks will try to re-sign Bo and JT (to less than they want).  If they don't accept, I can see one of the two being traded. 

 

Canucks really need help at D, and I'd be okay if one of them was traded to help with that. Maybe Garland is traded as well. 

 

If the Canucks had a great D core and Demko, I would feel pretty comfortable going in with these forwards:

 

Miller

Pettersson

Boeser

Podkolzin

Hoglander

Highmore

Lockwood

Klimovich*

Karlsson*

 

(add another Top 6 winger and fill out the bottom 6)

 

 

 

[NucknAsia]

17 minutes ago, BPA said:

Great at faceoffs.  Plays PP and PK.  Responsible 200ft game.  Got 30g last year.

 

Minimum 1st (mid round but preferably top 10), top prospect, and roster player.

 

I would say value-wise, slightly less the Miller cuz 99pts is an impressive feat for any player.

 

 

 

 

NJ would be a good match for us. Get that 2nd overall which they are open to moving, they've got alot of D prospects, and some young players on their roster. 

Edited May 25, 2022 by NucknAsia

[BPA]

12 minutes ago, NucknAsia said:

NJ would be a good match for us. Get that 2nd overall which they are open to moving, they've got alot of D prospects, and some young players on their roster. 

I would loathe Bo getting traded.  But whatever makes the team better.  This is assuming Miller gets re-signed.  Cuz losing both would be a gut punch and set Canucks back even further.

[rawkdrummer]

For the Canucks... Priceless

Another off season dumb question

 

Edited May 25, 2022 by rawkdrummer

[mll]

17 minutes ago, NucknAsia said:

NJ would be a good match for us. Get that 2nd overall which they are open to moving, they've got alot of D prospects, and some young players on their roster. 

Horvat would be a C3 in NJD.  He's not going to play ahead of Hischier or Hughes.  Hischier is already more productive than Horvat in that matchup role and he's only 23.  

[Ronaldoescobar]

I think you would have to add if you wanted NJ's #2 pick for Horvat. Probably be more than it is worth imo. 

[Drakrami]

Reinhart got a low 1st and ok prospect.. Even though it's robbery, you shouldn't have your expectations so high. Miller and his 99 points on the other hand... 

[JamesB]

I like Horvat a lot, as does everyone on CDC. I very much hope that he re-signs, preferably this summer. I would love to see him sign long term and remain with the Canucks for his entire career (with a Stanley Cup win in there somewhere). 

 

That said, I think the suggestions so far about his trade value are wildly overstated. As we have seen in the past, home town views about player value are normally overstated and this case in no exception.

 

If the Canucks trade Horvat this summer whoever gets him gets him for exactly one year before he becomes a UFA. Maybe that team re-signs him, maybe not. If they do re-sign him it will be a market value and will not provide a lot of value relative to the cap.

 

So, basically, we are asking what one year of Bo Horvat is worth. One year of Horvat is worth a lot less than one year of Miller. It does not matter that Miller is older because in either case the acquiring team gets only one year before UFA status is reached. 

 

Miller is worth a low first round pick, a mid-level roster player and a good prospect. (That is apparently what the Rangers offered for Miller at the deadline.)

 

There is no way Horvat would get the same return.  There is certainly no way NJ trades the #2 overall pick. On most teams Horvat is a good 2C (but not on the Devils, as pointed out by @mll).

 

Miller is worth the three "pieces" in trade.  Horvat is probably worth two pieces, so maybe a mid-to-low first round pick and a good (but not exceptional) prospect.. Or maybe a pick and a mid-level roster player. 

 

Also, I think Horvat is worth more to the Canucks than to most other teams, so he probably stays unless he is tired of losing and thinks it will be a while before JR turns things around. He might want to stay for next year and then become a UFA if the direction of the team does not look positive enough. 

[Angry Goose]

Bo is a tough one.  

 

He’s got clout around the league.

 

Like you say, he’s a great person and represents the organization well.

 

Like Miller’s career year in points, I wonder about Bo’s future goal scoring.  Im not worried about his PP goals-he’s got his shot on lockdown.  

 

Going forward, if he is extended w/ the Canucks, I really like him w/EP on the wing.  Both are good 2 way players but Bo can handle the physical style better.  And EP is such a good distributor no matter what position he is.  Add a right shot Zach Hyman/Miles Wood type and youve got the makings of a legit 1st line.  Of course if Miller is traded though, Your 2/3 C depth is an issue.  

 

 

[CanuckleHorse]

Not going to happen both parties want one another and he bleeds Van colours he is our captain Canuck!

[Nuxfanabroad]

Get younger, & help the cap-scenario?

 

Van: Bo Horvat, Tyler Myers, & 2022 1st r(15th OA) pick

 

Swamp Devils: Dawson Mercer, Severson, 2022 1st r(2 OA) pick

[Ghostsof1915]

If you trade Bo or Miller you need minimum of two qualty centre's coming back in return.

[Father Ryan]

Miller may be the better offensive talent and a pretty damn good center, but he will also bring a higher return (I think). I know loyalty to a player shouldn't figure in highly in whether to keep a player or not, but it does have purpose and value. Other players, maybe looking for security (they've got a ring already, for example, and now are married with kids). A team known to provide some loyalty could be good advertising and maybe (hah!) get 200-300K off on a contract. Take...Drew Doughty, for example. He's got his rings...his pedigree is established...he knows his days as a #1 pairing are close to being over. Two other teams come along with offers. One is "well, we'd like you to mentor the young D" but it's known they are a "money ball" type of team. They offer a 3yr, 7M/yrly contract. The other team offers the same 3yr, but at 6.25. Team B is well known for treating players right, mentoring them into their futures after hockey. Doughty has made his $$ and rings. Maybe its time to settle down.

 

What does this have to do with Bo? He's been here through his entire career. I'm not saying he's going to settle for a "hometown" discount...but keeping him into what promises to be a good several year run shows loyalty. Miller doesn't have the time invested here that Bo does. I'll keep Bo, thank you very much. Without Miller, I could see a 6 x 6.5 for Bo, with only the last year being a potential non-payoff year. 

[wildcam]

6 hours ago, BPA said:

Great at faceoffs.  Plays PP and PK.  Responsible 200ft game.  Got 30g last year.

 

Minimum 1st (mid round but preferably top 10), top prospect, and roster player.

 

I would say value-wise, slightly less the Miller cuz 99pts is an impressive feat for any player.

 

 

 

 

You must get a great return in trade for either Miller or Horvat.. So hard to find  very good centres..

I think Miller 29, will be traded with his new contract say 6 yrs X 8.7 million ? Should be less then 9 million and more then 8.4 million

Horvat 27 two years younger will sign for much less? 6 yrs X 6.8 Million

[Alflives]

6 hours ago, mll said:

Horvat would be a C3 in NJD.  He's not going to play ahead of Hischier or Hughes.  Hischier is already more productive than Horvat in that matchup role and he's only 23.  

Bo is a far better player than Heischer.  Bo is 220 pounds, and uses his size to effect the game.  Points alone aren’t what defines how much a player contributes to winning.  

Bo would  daily return 2OA and more.  

Hiescher and Hughes as Jersey’s top centres is why they are a loser team.  Both play small.  Bo plays big.  

 

[Vinny in Vancouver]

7 hours ago, NUCKER67 said:

I think the Canucks will try to re-sign Bo and JT (to less than they want).  If they don't accept, I can see one of the two being traded. 

I think if both don't accept, then both (and not just one) will get traded as JR hates losing assets for nothing.

[NucknAsia]

7 hours ago, mll said:

Horvat would be a C3 in NJD.  He's not going to play ahead of Hischier or Hughes.  Hischier is already more productive than Horvat in that matchup role and he's only 23.  

fair points, but Hughes has been used alot on the wing, and given his size may be better suited there.

[NucknAsia]

13 minutes ago, Vinny in Vancouver said:

I think if both don't accept, then both (and not just one) will get traded as JR hates losing assets for nothing.

agreed, I believe they mgmt group are fishing to see who has the most value, and who is expendable / who can they move to shore up other areas. The reality is someone good will have to go to get good back in a weaker area (have to give to get idea). Trading Myers, Pearson, etc can help on the cap front but it won't bring back impact players, only cheaper replacements. 

 

As a result, one of Bo, Miller, Boeser or maybe two will have to move (not both centers) to improve our RD and other weaknesses. It will be an interesting summer I think.